Income and taxes question, theoretical.

15ThreePoint7

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The student debt cancellation discussion brought up a lot of comments about taxes. So I would like to ask a question to gain some insight.


If your take home pay (after taxes and insurance etc) was doubled, yet your taxes were quadrupled, would you be happy with that, or would you be upset to be paying a lot more in taxes?





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samd1351

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Well, that depends. First and foremost, am I getting a good return on how my tax dollars are spent? And, what did that do to cost of living expenses?

Right now, personally, I think there is just too much greed in the country. Everybody wants theirs, and sure, we'll give to charity after we've gotten everything we want first.

I really don't "need" more money. Sure more money would be nice, and no way in hell am I turning down a raise or bonus at work (you'd have to experience some time in my office to truly appreciate the hell that it is). But do I "need" more, no.

Now, if the all of the extra tax dollars were being spent on things that actually help people (affordable housing, job training, affordable daycare, investing in improving critical infrastructure and green technology, and bringing manufacturing jobs back to this country) then yea, I'd probably be all for it.

But, back to the OPs original question, would I be happy, I don't think I'd be any more or less happier. Money doesn't make me happy. Giving does. Doing for others does. And of course, Mustang does :crackup:, but money, nah.
 
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15ThreePoint7

15ThreePoint7

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But, back to the OPs original question, would I be happy, I don't think I'd be any more or less happier. Money doesn't make me happy. Giving does. Doing for others does. And of course, Mustang does :crackup:, but money, nah.
I suppose that depends on how much you make as it is. I don't want to know, but if you are comfortable, then good.
 

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I would be very upset. Currently if my pay doubles, my taxes do not quadruple. Why would I be happy with that?
 

samd1351

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I suppose that depends on how much you make as it is. I don't want to know, but if you are comfortable, then good.

I make enough that there's roof over our head (it needs replaced though. ugh), food on the table, clothes on our backs, the bills are paid, retirement fund contribution is maxed, and there's some left over. I make pretty good money, esp without having a college degree. Do things get tight every now and then, yeah. My wife also works, but unfortunately, city jobs don't pay worth a damn. And she does have a college degree.

More money would allow me to do more, sure. But I'd probably waste some of it on stuff I don't need. I'd really like to see someone sit down with Congress and come up with a realistic budget. I know my tax dollars have to pay for a lot things, some of which i don't agree with, but are for the overall betterment of the community / country as whole. But please stop wasting my money on things we don't need.

Meh, it's a losing battle. My kids know to save. One does a much better job than the other though. One feels like he has to watch every penny and save every dime. The other feels it's civic duty to help stimulate the economy single handedly.
 

Mikthehun1

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That would be the right marginal tax bracket, but would be way over for the average taxes. I'd be pissed. Why should I pay more than my fair share?
 

BeastAR

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That would be insane.... I am in a 24% tax bracket with my wife as of now... Your not literally referring to me get taxed at 96%, correct? That would only work in a stepped tax system, but depending on the levels you would get majorly screwed.

But, I would be pissed because others would be making double and getting back all their taxes. (If all other restrictions and benefits stayed in place). So they would get raises and I could literally make less than I do currently.
 
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15ThreePoint7

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That would be insane.... I am in a 24% tax bracket with my wife as of now... Your not literally referring to me get taxed at 96%, correct? That would only work in a stepped tax system, but depending on the levels you would get majorly screwed.

But, I would be pissed because others would be making double and getting back all their taxes. (If all other restrictions and benefits stayed in place). So they would get raises and I could literally make less than I do currently.
I didn't say percentages. I just meant your actual take home pay and your tax amount. Say if your take home was 1k a week and your taxes were 350, your take home would jump to 2k, and the taxes would jump to 1400. Meaning your paycheck after taxes would be 2k.
 
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Bikeman315

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I didn't say percentages. I just meant your actual take home pay and your tax amount. Say if your take home was 1k a week and your taxes were 350, your take home would jump to 2k, and the taxes would jump to 1400. Meaning your paycheck after taxes would be 2k.
Huh?
$1000 - $350 = $650.
$2000 - $1400 = $600.

What am I missing?
 

Mikthehun1

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Huh?
$1000 - $350 = $650.
$2000 - $1400 = $600.

What am I missing?
He's explaining it terribly. What he means is you double your take-home, but you also quadruple the amount you pay in taxes. Your gross would be much higher than it is now, but you only get to keep a lower overall percentage.

I think it's bullshit unless in this fantasy scenario, corporations are paying their share as well. In 2017 corporate taxes were lowered from 35% to 21%, with the average actual rate being around 9%. Many wind up paying nothing due to the many loopholes and tax-sheltering schemes available to large entities. For example Apple incorporated in Ireland so they could pay nothing in Europe. All of the profits routed through the "head office" and were not taxed. They do the same shit in the US by establishing "head offices" in states with 0% corporate taxes.

Don't tax the middle class, tax the rich. They've been hoarding wealth for decades, and using it to buy off your elected officials. Bezos pays 1.2%, with trillion dollar Amazon actually receiving a fucking refund. Meanwhile his employees work in 3rd-world sweatshop conditions, with many on SNAP. We pay taxes to subsidize their workers AND give them a bonus check.
 
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15ThreePoint7

15ThreePoint7

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Huh?
$1000 - $350 = $650.
$2000 - $1400 = $600.

What am I missing?
1350 - 350 = 1000
3400-1400 = 2000

I guess "take home" means something different to others?
 

Bikeman315

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He's explaining it terribly. What he means is you double your take-home, but you also quadruple the amount you pay in taxes. Your gross would be much higher than it is now, but you only get to keep a lower overall percentage.

I think it's bullshit unless in this fantasy scenario, corporations are paying their share as well. In 2017 corporate taxes were lowered from 35% to 21%, with the average actual rate being around 9%. Many wind up paying nothing due to the many loopholes and tax-sheltering schemes available to large entities. For example Apple incorporated in Ireland so they could pay nothing in Europe. All of the profits routed through the "head office" and were not taxed. They do the same shit in the US by establishing "head offices" in states with 0% corporate taxes.

Don't tax the middle class, tax the rich. They've been hoarding wealth for decades, and using it to buy off your elected officials. Bezos pays 1.2%, with trillion dollar Amazon actually receiving a fucking refund. Meanwhile his employees work in 3rd-world sweatshop conditions, with many on SNAP. We pay taxes to subsidize their workers AND give them a bonus check.
Thanks Mik. So it would look like this?

Gross $1350- Taxes $350 = Net $1000.
Gross $3400 - Taxes $1400 = Net $2000.

Still don’t get it. Forget the percentages, if your take home doubles who cares about the taxes.
 
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15ThreePoint7

15ThreePoint7

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He's explaining it terribly. What he means is you double your take-home, but you also quadruple the amount you pay in taxes. Your gross would be much higher than it is now, but you only get to keep a lower overall percentage.

I think it's bullshit unless in this fantasy scenario, corporations are paying their share as well. In 2017 corporate taxes were lowered from 35% to 21%, with the average actual rate being around 9%. Many wind up paying nothing due to the many loopholes and tax-sheltering schemes available to large entities. For example Apple incorporated in Ireland so they could pay nothing in Europe. All of the profits routed through the "head office" and were not taxed. They do the same shit in the US by establishing "head offices" in states with 0% corporate taxes.

Don't tax the middle class, tax the rich. They've been hoarding wealth for decades, and using it to buy off your elected officials. Bezos pays 1.2%, with trillion dollar Amazon actually receiving a fucking refund. Meanwhile his employees work in 3rd-world sweatshop conditions, with many on SNAP. We pay taxes to subsidize their workers AND give them a bonus check.
The scenario is based on the idea that higher incomes across the board would yield and allow higher taxes. In conjunction with fiscal responsibility (not giving corporate subsidies and actually a tax system that is simple therefore impossible to get out of for corporations), we could eliminate the debt, fix the things that need fixing and THEN if we have a surplus cut taxes. It is actually better economically to run a small deficit.

So yes, bullshit. Not being sarcastic. Bullshit because corporations just want to pay the least amount possible, so this scenario would never happen. Except in germany.
 

Mikthehun1

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Thanks Mik. So it would look like this?

Gross $1350- Taxes $350 = Net $1000.
Gross $3400 - Taxes $1400 = Net $2000.

Still don’t get it. Forget the percentages, if your take home doubles who cares about the taxes.
Yes, and taxation is theft, that's why I care.
 

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