I break lug nuts and threads when taking wheels off

[Shadow277]

Note : I’m not wanting to start a war on nut torque etc

The 90 may well be enough (more so if you are lubing threads), but be aware that the torque ford calculated is based on the thread / stud size rather than the nut hex size that’s on the end of it.

All I am saying is that if you are someone that wants to stick to OE specs, then you still need to torque to 150 rather than the 90 they have told you.

Another note : The 90 may well be based on the quality of nut you have and it’s ability to actually take 150 - but that’s another wormhole we shouldn’t go down ... lol

WD

I am pretty much sticking to stock. Thr only suspension mod I found was the vehicle being lowered one inch. I am unsure if the springs are after market because they are black and look stock. Sounds like I need to stick to 150lb then.

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[BimmerDriver]

... be aware that the torque ford calculated is based on the thread / stud size rather than the nut hex size that’s on the end of it.

Good point, I stand corrected.

Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[sigintel]

Firestone said

NEVER GO TO A FIRESTONE!
They are the worst scammy mechanic chain ever.
These shops are incentivized to screw shit up. The techs are pressured to create easy billable crap work
lugs, gas caps, exhaust leaks, leaking struts, ECU codes.
There was a Firestone that failed everyones gas caps on the cap tester that was rigged just to sell them new gas caps during state inspections.

 

[Sivi70980]

I just tighten them down to what it felt like they were when I took them off. Been doing this for years and haven't lost a wheel or lug yet.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I just tighten them down to what it felt like they were when I took them off. Been doing this for years and haven't lost a wheel or lug yet.

i’ve seen a wheel come off a mustang while it was driving. The subframe and brake rotor being scraped across the road was a truly aweful sound. Luckuly the car was only going like 30mph in an open lot at the time so nobody was hurt (except the car owner’s ego).

sure you can just guess at the right torque and probably get away with it 99 times out of 100. Its the 1% of the time when your laziness causes you to break a bolt or loose a part thats the problem. Wheels are pretty important at speed, why chance it?

 

[Sivi70980]

i’ve seen a wheel come off a mustang while it was driving. The subframe and brake rotor being scraped across the road was a truly aweful sound. Luckuly the car was only going like 30mph in an open lot at the time so nobody was hurt (except the car owner’s ego).

sure you can just guess at the right torque and probably get away with it 99 times out of 100. Its the 1% of the time when your laziness causes you to break a bolt or loose a part thats the problem. Wheels are pretty important at speed, why chance it?

Les Schwab and other tire shops don't bother with torqueing to specifics either. Granted impacts are going to error more on the side of too tight but I really don't think it's that serious to get the specific torque. I'm thinking it's a rather large tolerance gap and getting to exactly 150lbs vs 120lbs isn't going to matter. It's not laziness, I simply don't own a torque wrench that goes up to 150lbs.

Saying all this, I'm totally checking the prices on some now lol.

 

[BlueHPP]

Torque specs are approximations of sticking force required to get the lug to its proper amount of stretch. The lug will reach maximum strength at the right amount of stretch. You can under-torque the lugs by quite a bit and not have a problem if you do not really use all of the car. For tracking and autocross you should be within +/-10% to keep your wheels firmly on the hub.
If you are worried about your lug nuts sticking or freezing to your lugs put a little bit (a thin stripe) of anti seize on the lug Before putting on the nut and you will always get them off.

 

[Grimmer]

I don't trust shops in general. If it's something that I can do, I do it myself.

I had an incident at my local tire shop. I usually take the wheel/tire assy off the car and bring them to the tire shop to have new ones installed. This one time and it was a first for this car, I didn't have the time to take the wheels off. The shop I took it to, stated that they always use a torque wrench to install the lug nuts, BuII Poop. I double checked the torque on the lug nuts and found one to be stripped. The shop changed the stud at no cost to me. But that further reinforces the motto of " If you want it done right. Do it yourself".

Always use a torque wrench to install the hardware. An impact driver is OK for removal, but if you have nice lug nuts, they usually get marked up by the impact driver.

I've also been told by shops that they use a torque wrench to install. I watched them hammer it on with an impact gun then follow-up with a torque wrench. However the torque wrench never added anything. Likely they were over torqued with the impact and then "checked" for a minimum torque without regard for max torque.

The two piece Ford factory lug nuts were OK when a wrench was used to remove them, but the first time an impact gun was used at least 3 or them were damaged. The repeatative sharp impacts of the gun easily separated / rotated the "jacket".

I immediately replaced them all with solid Gorilla lug nuts (available in black or chrome).

 

[Grimmer]

Torque specs are approximations of sticking force required to get the lug to its proper amount of stretch. The lug will reach maximum strength at the right amount of stretch. You can under-torque the lugs by quite a bit and not have a problem if you do not really use all of the car. For tracking and autocross you should be within +/-10% to keep your wheels firmly on the hub.
If you are worried about your lug nuts sticking or freezing to your lugs put a little bit (a thin stripe) of anti seize on the lug Before putting on the nut and you will always get them off.

Torque specs are given for dry threads. If the threads are lubricated the torque value needs to be adjusted (reduced) accordingly.

 

[Shadow277]

NEVER GO TO A FIRESTONE!
They are the worst scammy mechanic chain ever.
These shops are incentivized to screw shit up. The techs are pressured to create easy billable crap work
lugs, gas caps, exhaust leaks, leaking struts, ECU codes.
There was a Firestone that failed everyones gas caps on the cap tester that was rigged just to sell them new gas caps during state inspections.

Interesting. The one at Fort Campbell treated me pretty well and here in Phoenix I found a bad one and a good one. Product pushing? Yes. Repairs and maintenance? No. They know me because I always as for the part they replaced.

 

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

Get yourself a good torque wrench and a Milwaukee cordless impact and loosen and retorque the lugs when you get back from the tire shop. I used to work for firestone 20+ years ago and we were required to use those "torque sticks", I personally never trusted them. Make sure you get a torque wrench that has a range big enough so that the desired torque setting is as close to middle of the range as possible, they are a lot more accurate that way. The accuracy goes way down when you at or near the end of the range. Ford's spec for lug nut torque is 150 ft lbs on all S-550 mustangs as they use the larger 14mm wheel studs.

The torque wrench I have that I use strictly for wheels is a 25 year old MAC that ranges from 0 to 250 ft lbs, paid 200 for it new 25 years ago.

Some guy at a Firestone overtorqued lugnuts in response to my questioning what how he screwed up his work.
Random comment ftw!

 

[GT_Roadcourse_Newb]

Awww... I'm not OP anymore. /relief

 

[sigintel]

Interesting. The one at Fort Campbell treated me pretty well and here in Phoenix I found a bad one and a good one. Product pushing? Yes. Repairs and maintenance? No. They know me because I always as for the part they replaced.

I can wipe my ass, but that dont make it clean enough to kiss.

The structure of the relationships between the corporation, employees, and customers is flawed. It can not compete with an independent shop unburdened by a far away corporate leach sucking money from the techs family.

Same reason Ford must bypass their existing dealer network in marketing and selling anything that competes with Tesla.

Dealerships are an artifact of legalized racketeering. The business case is collapsing rapidly, hence Fords investment in Rivian.
All the "electric only" exceptions are an organized claw back over the dealer lobby/racket.

Merry Christmas!

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