How important is suspension for traction on an FI setup? Suspension before Tires?

[MCS]

Agreed with the above. I’ve got about 500km on my RII but I have my old rear G2 that will be going on a spare set of 19x11 tridents this winter and will be for when im going out of town. Along with a stop the hood install and jacking rails so I can swap the tires myself.

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[MCS]

This....and the stop-the-hop kit and you should be good to go. If you aren't experiencing any hop....well then just the tires may be the answer......for now.

Just so you know, if you drive it, don't expect to get much over 7k miles out of the Nittos. I have my second set ready to go on with only about 6k on the first set of rears....fronts, well those will make it through a few rear changes.

This is a question where you get to pick your poison. Any tire will almost work if you aren't driving the car hard...but there is a reason you slapped that supercharger on it. If you want the ultimate hook, then some type of drag radial is mostly likely in your future. If you want a compromise, then maybe the PS4S in a wider size will do it...in the end, you could possibly end up with suspension parts AND sticker tires. To be honest, I think most of us can only say what we have done in the same situation or would do (without having experienced it). For me, it has been a combination...which can definitely get to be costly....as I keep two sets of wheels and tires with different abilities and switch them out based on the weather and how I plan to drive the car.

Agreed with the above. I’ve got about 500km on my RII but I have my old rear G2 (2500km on them) that will be going on a spare set of 19x11 tridents this winter.

They will be for when im going out of town. Along with a stop the hood install and jacking rails so I can swap the tires myself.

For me that’s all the suspension I imagine I’ll need for the street. Not here to be the most expensive GT on the planet or the fastest car in my area.

 

[m3incorp]

Nitto Rii new, compared to Nitto Rio with 5k. I live alone most of the time, so don't judge my dining room attair lol.

 

[cahouston]

Short answer: tires first

I only make 445rwhp on the stock tune and I had major traction issues from a dig, on 1-2 shift, and on 2-3 shift (A10) with the 275 PS4S. I switched to the Nitto 555r2 and they hook well when warm and handle rain (with responsible throttle) without white knuckling it.

At 700hp, you aren't going to find traction with anything less than a drag radial like the 555r2. Wheel hop mainly happens when there is some degree of traction trying to occur but slipping still. With even a performance summer tire like the PS4S, you won't have traction even with a 315. It'll be better than you have now but it'll still break traction with ease. Once you have traction from a better tire, you may need rear IRS help like the stop the hop kit from Steeda or BMR equivalent which would mainly be the cradle lockout bushings and IRS braces.

 

[Ptrug]

I started my build with wheels and tires first before suspension. I went with Michelin PS4s all the way around, but 285/35R19's in front and 325/30R19's in the back. At that point all I had done from Steeda is to add the collars in the subframe to re-align it and take the play out of the mounting bushings on the rear subframe, but hadn't done anything else.

I noticed immediate improvement on the handling and "stickiness" of the car with the new tires. The grip on the pavement was way better than the stock Pirelli P Zeros could ever provide. Those were tiny 235/50R18's.

Then as I added suspension and frame stiffening the car gradually over the course of a year or so. It drove better, and better, and better every time I changed something.

Since then I've done a complete suspension conversion front and back. Sway bars, shocks, struts, progressive lowering springs, bump steer, front control arms, rear tow links. The car hugged the road - esp. around corners. That pesky understeer was gone. So was the wheel hop. Cornering was significantly improved - a really good baseline.

So I chose to tackle braking next, and thats when things got interesting. This was a real problem with the stock brakes and thinking I could corner while going downhill into a tight turn, so I wanted a kit that instills confidence that I know will let me lean on the brakes if I had to. I chose to go with the full kit GT350R brake conversion which of course brings new rear knuckles and half-shafts, and better hubs.

BUT - I was forced to switch wheels and tires as part of the conversion. My existing wheels wouldn't work with the GT offset my original wheels/tires had, and the fronts did NOT have the barrel to fit around those massive calipers in the kit. I had to go with a combo that served a GT350R range of offset instead. LMR provides their SVE wheel/tire package for those doing this brake swap. I didn't have the wallet to mount Michelins on these new SVE R360 wheels either, unfortunately. They look great, but I decided to simply stay with the default Nitto NT555 G2's mounted on the rims from LMR to keep the cost of the project down. I also moved down in size in the rear from a 325/30R19 to a 305/35R19.

I can tell a difference right away. Although I have massive 4-corner braking that is super awesome the tires are a bit more yielding. They heat up quickly, which is great, but they do NOT handle well in wet weather. I've lost grip a few times where I didn't expect to, which is always fun. I'd have a lot less confidence handling a corner in wet conditions for sure. Michelin PS4s are just a better tire - period.

So now I'm at the point where I've done just about everything I could think of suspension wise, but the tires make ALL the difference now.

I appreciate all the detail! I have a PP1 so I have the brembo brakes and sway bar already so I am covered there. As far as tires, I have 275 PS4s now in the rear and I have no chance of hooking with WOT even at a rolling 60... I know going wider will help, but I can't imagine just going wider PS4s would give me that much more grip. The tire is just way to hard! Taking handling into consideration, yes it's prob the best tire in the world, but at this point with the torque and power I am producing I need grip! Even if it's just for safety. So I think I have to go with the softer compound of the 555RII's, then I will look into the Stop the Hop kits if the improved traction makes her jump. Thats also how I know the PS4s are to hard. There is no hop. She just spins like on ice.

Are you FI? Because when I was pre FI I would agree, the PS4s were the best of the best for handling and grip, but since I pushed the equilibrium of the car's performance into the power side, The PS4s are way too hard to be safe.

 

[Ptrug]

This....and the stop-the-hop kit and you should be good to go. If you aren't experiencing any hop....well then just the tires may be the answer......for now.

Just so you know, if you drive it, don't expect to get much over 7k miles out of the Nittos. I have my second set ready to go on with only about 6k on the first set of rears....fronts, well those will make it through a few rear changes.

This is a question where you get to pick your poison. Any tire will almost work if you aren't driving the car hard...but there is a reason you slapped that supercharger on it. If you want the ultimate hook, then some type of drag radial is mostly likely in your future. If you want a compromise, then maybe the PS4S in a wider size will do it...in the end, you could possibly end up with suspension parts AND sticker tires. To be honest, I think most of us can only say what we have done in the same situation or would do (without having experienced it). For me, it has been a combination...which can definitely get to be costly....as I keep two sets of wheels and tires with different abilities and switch them out based on the weather and how I plan to drive the car.

I think I have come to the conclusion that with my power, the PS4 are to hard. I need to go to the 555RII, then evaluate the Stop the Hop kits of the increased traction causes jumping. Thats how I know the PS4s are too hard... they don't jump, they just spin like on ice.

 

[Ptrug]

Nitto Rii new, compared to Nitto Rio with 5k. I live alone most of the time, so don't judge my dining room attair lol.

No Judgement lol Thats for the detail. I am low mileage enough so I think I will be ok. I do about 5-6 k miles a year so... is what it is to keep her safe because the PS4s just are not doing it at this poer range. Way to hard!

 

[Ptrug]

Short answer: tires first

I only make 445rwhp on the stock tune and I had major traction issues from a dig, on 1-2 shift, and on 2-3 shift (A10) with the 275 PS4S. I switched to the Nitto 555r2 and they hook well when warm and handle rain (with responsible throttle) without white knuckling it.

At 700hp, you aren't going to find traction with anything less than a drag radial like the 555r2. Wheel hop mainly happens when there is some degree of traction trying to occur but slipping still. With even a performance summer tire like the PS4S, you won't have traction even with a 315. It'll be better than you have now but it'll still break traction with ease. Once you have traction from a better tire, you may need rear IRS help like the stop the hop kit from Steeda or BMR equivalent which would mainly be the cradle lockout bushings and IRS braces.

Yup. Your comment is my ultimate conclusion. The PS4s are way to hard... I can't tell because they dont hop, they just spin like on ice so they are not sticky enough to hop.

555RII, then evaluate a stop the hop after to see if its needed.

 

[BluePonyGT]

I appreciate all the detail! I have a PP1 so I have the brembo brakes and sway bar already so I am covered there. As far as tires, I have 275 PS4s now in the rear and I have no chance of hooking with WOT even at a rolling 60... I know going wider will help, but I can't imagine just going wider PS4s would give me that much more grip. The tire is just way to hard! Taking handling into consideration, yes it's prob the best tire in the world, but at this point with the torque and power I am producing I need grip! Even if it's just for safety. So I think I have to go with the softer compound of the 555RII's, then I will look into the Stop the Hop kits if the improved traction makes her jump. Thats also how I know the PS4s are to hard. There is no hop. She just spins like on ice.

Are you FI? Because when I was pre FI I would agree, the PS4s were the best of the best for handling and grip, but since I pushed the equilibrium of the car's performance into the power side, The PS4s are way too hard to be safe.

I am NOT FI yet. Still NA. I've gone around and around on whether to go with a super charger or not. I don't want to boost the factory rods/pistons/crank, and I like my strut tower brace. Turbo isn't for me. I think I'd rather have some forged stuff in there before I did that. Am I being too much of a big baby?

 

[Ptrug]

I am NOT FI yet. Still NA. I've gone around and around on whether to go with a super charger or not. I don't want to boost the factory rods/pistons/crank, and I like my strut tower brace. Turbo isn't for me. I think I'd rather have some forged stuff in there before I did that. Am I being too much of a big baby?

What Year is your Mustang? If you have Gen 3 then you have forged parts. I think that’s partly if not mostly why there so desired.

And once you go FI it’s a whole other ball game! You’ll understand why the PS4 are way to hard and nothing but drag radials will do. I basically have a street legal race car. To give you an idea, the other day I was doing 140 in 6th gear (10 speed auto) at just over 5500 rpm’s. She wasn’t even struggling.

Look at the ESS super chargers. 700 HP for just under 6K, injectors and all. And I’m still on pump gas.

I spent a whole month specking my build with ESS and Lund my tuner. And I think I got it PERFECT! So let me know if you need insight into the build.

 

[luc]

What Year is your Mustang? If you have Gen 3 then you have forged parts. I think that’s partly if not mostly why there so desired.

And once you go FI it’s a whole other ball game! You’ll understand why the PS4 are way to hard and nothing but drag radials will do. I basically have a street legal race car. To give you an idea, the other day I was doing 140 in 6th gear (10 speed auto) at just over 5500 rpm’s. She wasn’t even struggling.

Look at the ESS super chargers. 700 HP for just under 6K, injectors and all. And I’m still on pump gas.

I spent a whole month specking my build with ESS and Lund my tuner. And I think I got it PERFECT! So let me know if you need insight into the build.

..140…on the street or on a track ?

 

[luc]

Street. I’ve been up to 150 on the Garden State Parkway in NJ.

Seriously?
What you need is not tires or suspension improvements but rather brain surgery

 

[luc]

Why, because you don’t have the balls to do it or can’t handle it? Get outta here…..

I’ve had her up there many times even before she was FI so keep your amateur comments to yourself.

You’re really dumb, i have been road racing for the past 30 years and 150 is slow for me

 

[Ptrug]

You’re really dumb, i have been road racing for the past 30 years and 150 is slow for me

Then why make such a dumb comment acting like you know me. I know what I’m doing as well and what’s safe and what my car can handle.

So mind your own business. I don’t care how long you have been racing. You have no clue what your talking about.

 

[Dana Pants]

Yup. Your comment is my ultimate conclusion. The PS4s are way to hard... I can't tell because they dont hop, they just spin like on ice so they are not sticky enough to hop.

555RII, then evaluate a stop the hop after to see if its needed.

fwiw, hop is more likely at low traction levels in my experience. Rain = hop. Cold tires = hop. Warm happy race tires = no hop, just slip and go.

I suppose at the extreme of snow traction, there is no where hop.

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