How bad did ford Sandbag the Ecoboost?

[Rogues Gambit]

Same weaknesses, Ford continues to run this setup in the Ranger etc. The real fix is using an ST 2.0 block or going back to the past and using an older Ford Fusion 2.5 Duratec block with GDI head.

Sending this to my bud in SC who wants to get an Ecoboost someday this year

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[whatdoyoufeedit?]

Sending this to my bud in SC who wants to get an Ecoboost someday this year

Tom Lesperen w/ Focus power has a turbo Mk3 Focus non ST with a 2.5 block and GDI head, its torque curve clowns the 2.0 and 2.3. If I don't trade up for a Coyote powered S550 I would totally go that route to really turn up the wick with a larger turbo. 2.5 engines are dirt cheap ~$250 and their blocks are thick castings that can take boost better than the paper thin 2.3 EB block that was thin for cooling purposes to the allow the use of 87 in fleet/entry level vehicles.

 

[FreePenguin]

I love my ecoboost and prefer it to gt’s if you aren’t chasing the highest power block can handle I think it’s a great car once you change the issues

 

[Turbong]

I love my ecoboost and prefer it to gt’s if you aren’t chasing the highest power block can handle I think it’s a great car once you change the issues

It's an excellent daily sports car, I think people forget it's not a special race car, these are mass produced affordable sport cars for 26k it can handle 350hp 400tq reliably without internal upgrades WTF more do you want? It costs as much as a freaken plain GT86 spend the same amount and go through the cost and trouble of FI and get it to those power levels have ats, its all about perspective.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

I just read a review of the 2020 Ecoboost HPP on the SVTPerformance forum. The 2.3 HiPo engine sounds very impressive. I would think with the duel overhead cams and all the good parts in the engine it should rev to 8000 RPM . The 2.3 Hipo engine may be one of the greatest Mustang engines for 2021.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

I just read a review of the 2020 Ecoboost HPP on the SVTPerformance forum. The 2.3 HiPo engine sounds very impressive. I would think with the duel overhead cams and all the good parts in the engine it should rev to 8000 RPM . The 2.3 Hipo engine may be one of the greatest Mustang engines for 2021.

Piston speeds will likely be too high to ever rev our engines to 8K, at least if you don’t want your engine to become a consumable.

 

[FreePenguin]

Yeah 8k isn’t gonna happen

 

[TeeLew]

I just read a review of the 2020 Ecoboost HPP on the SVTPerformance forum. The 2.3 HiPo engine sounds very impressive. I would think with the duel overhead cams and all the good parts in the engine it should rev to 8000 RPM . The 2.3 Hipo engine may be one of the greatest Mustang engines for 2021.

It's a good engine, but it's not some revolutionary design. It's been around for ~15 years and they blow up a little too often. I'd agree more if they all used the 2.0 block, but they don't. There's no way this thing will live at 8k revs without spending some stupid money.

 

[whatdoyoufeedit?]

It's an excellent daily sports car, I think people forget it's not a special race car, these are mass produced affordable sport cars for 26k it can handle 350hp 400tq reliably without internal upgrades WTF more do you want? It costs as much as a freaken plain GT86 spend the same amount and go through the cost and trouble of FI and get it to those power levels have ats, its all about perspective.

Understood, I like mine too stock for DD/fuel sipper purposes however this thread is about addressing weaknesses for those who may want more than 350whp (which is nothing in this day an age). Talking perspective, these engines have been known to blow bone stock and gently pulling out of a parking lot so no, even stock you'd still want an intercooler for a window of safety as Ford severely cut costs on this thing as even the Fiesta STs have a larger IC. Heck mine threw a wrench light a couple of summers ago on stock IC due the engine pulling timing from heat soak to make an emergency maneuver in traffic.

If you're doing great at those numbers, excellent; however plenty of failures have been documented from bone stock to tuned (regardless of tuner). There is an obvious weakness that needs to be addressed here and nobody is complaining about the 2.3, just merely discussing solutions. Pretending like there are no weaknesses for this engine will not make the problem disappear.

 

[FreePenguin]

Understood, I like mine too stock for DD/fuel sipper purposes however this thread is about addressing weaknesses for those who may want more than 350whp (which is nothing in this day an age). Talking perspective, these engines have been known to blow bone stock and gently pulling out of a parking lot so no, even stock you'd still want an intercooler for a window of safety as Ford severely cut costs on this thing as even the Fiesta STs have a larger IC. Heck mine threw a wrench light a couple of summers ago on stock IC due the engine pulling timing from heat soak to make an emergency maneuver in traffic.

If you're doing great at those numbers, excellent; however plenty of failures have been documented from bone stock to tuned (regardless of tuner). There is an obvious weakness that needs to be addressed here and nobody is complaining about the 2.3, just merely discussing solutions. Pretending like there are no weaknesses for this engine will not make the problem disappear.

Over exaggerating our engines as bombs is just as bad. Majority of the booms are manuals wot at like low rpms.

we are enthusiast forum, couple people with issues is chain reaction. Normal drivers don’t honestly have the issues and usually get them fixed and on with themselves

if they are good enough for fleets they are good enough for dd’s I think engines fine imo.Usequality oil is important

 

[whatdoyoufeedit?]

Over exaggerating our engines as bombs is just as bad. Majority of the booms are manuals wot at like low rpms.

we are enthusiast forum, couple people with issues is chain reaction. Normal drivers don’t honestly have the issues and usually get them fixed and on with themselves

if they are good enough for fleets they are good enough for dd’s I think engines fine imo.Usequality oil is important

Documenting what is going on and discussing solutions is not "over exaggerating" (it is actually creating progress). Gently pulling out of a parking lot is not going into WOT. LSPI has happened on both manuals and autos (though it affects manuals more as it is easier to trigger a LSPI scenario in a stick car). There's a reason some major tuners like Lund (they are the tuner behind the 9 sec EB Mustang) don't really like dealing with these power plants and are also very well aware of the failure point when the block gives out.

Make no mistake these engines make power, sustaining it long-term is another story. I've also come from the Duratec Focus world and know that even the older 2.5 blocks are good up to 400WHP-600WHP with minimal effort as they have Siamese bores. It would be dishonest to tell people the EB 2.3 as is is safe at 450WHP (especially when minor bolt-on/tune cars are popping early in their lives) without taking a major hit in reliability without properly using a 2.0ST block or older Duratec blocks to build it correctly. Enjoy it stock or @ moderate power levels as-is or build it right the first time if you have higher goals. FYI just changing your oil @ recommended interval is all you need to do; any reputable tuner laughs at the idea of boutique oils stopping LSPI; LSPI is a design flaw of GDI causing lack of valve cleaning (now addressed by secondary port injectors in modern GDI engines) , a severely undersized turbo, add a paper thin block to make a recipe for failure.

 

[FreePenguin]

Exactly. What I’m saying, their stock power levels, they are Stout and 99.9% reliable, yes manufacture defects happen,, you will hear about them here more than anywhere else. The majority of dealerships may replace one or two engines for the hundreds or thousands sold. Things break.

I fail to see any reason why we should expect anything more than what they sell it as, or ford performance of 330sh hp.

anything more, things going to go boom. And I’m okay with that, they designed this engine with the tolerances to keep away from gt power and save money.

To me it’s pointless to even talk to tuners who want to ring the ecoboost out full potential, of course those will blow.

What I said exageration is when people say all these engines will blow on their own. When it’s very very very low chance.

The grandma driving back to fourth errands will probably get 200-300k vs us trying to chase power or put any aftermarket parts and tunes on them. Even ford perf tune pushes the power more so than they send from factory.

anyone who wants more than ford perf tune basically needs a 2.0 if they want to be safe. I’m on ford tune and feel safe but anymore than this, I would fuly accept blowing and realize it’s my fault for pushingexcess power than its design

 

[whatdoyoufeedit?]

Exactly. What I’m saying, their stock power levels, they are Stout and 99.9% reliable, yes manufacture defects happen,, you will hear about them here more than anywhere else. The majority of dealerships may replace one or two engines for the hundreds or thousands sold. Things break.

Then this thread does not really address you nor is anyone complaining lol. I repeat, like my engine for stock DD duty (along with getting advertised MPGs) however I know if I change my mind I am going to pay to play and do it correctly. We're simply discussing the solution for those who may want big numbers out of EB so they do not make the mistake.

I fail to see any reason why we should expect anything more than what they sell it as, or ford performance of 330sh hp.


anything more, things going to go boom. And I’m okay with that, they designed this engine with the tolerances to keep away from gt power and save money.

The same reason why 460HP is not enough for Coyote owners and some want 700-4 digit range numbers. People have different goals.

To me it’s pointless to even talk to tuners who want to ring the ecoboost out full potential, of course those will blow.

Tell that to tuners who specialize who continue to specialize and and push these engines to their peak, people will pay to modify and break things. Happens all the time and this is a money game lol. Also knowing Ford had legacy blocks in the past that were already available that can withstand numbers that pop the EB makes matters worse. Any vehicle is more reliable (though the EB fails moreso because the safety window is thin) stock, why push anything by that logic?

What I said exageration is when people say all these engines will blow on their own. When it’s very very very low chance.

This is understandable, many rentals are out there putting around on 87 with no known issues because they dump the cars after 30K and then they become the 2nd owners problem. However, they and other non-enthusiasts are not going to report those issues on a web forum anyways so in actuality we don't really know.

The grandma driving back to fourth errands will probably get 200-300k vs us trying to chase power or put any aftermarket parts and tunes on them. Even ford perf tune pushes the power more so than they send from factory.

If taken care of and driven gingerly you might get that, these cars are way too new to know that specific long-term data. If driven like a Mustang, I have my doubts of them lasting that long just going off known current documented data combined with my own personal experiences.

anyone who wants more than ford perf tune basically needs a 2.0 if they want to be safe. I’m on ford tune and feel safe but anymore than this, I would fuly accept blowing and realize it’s my fault for pushing excess power than its design

Correct, and heads up there has already been someone in a facelift (I think A10 car too) that popped on the Ford tune. The only reason to get the Ford tune is because they cover it (to an extent with a reduced warranty). I'd wager to say a tune from a tuner like PD etc. would be safer as they specialize on the 2.3 MZR/EB platform(s) and are well aware of what happens with our cars. The Ford tune is actually a Mountune tune. Once again nobody is complaining about the design or even failures, we know we live in a bean-counter world lol, just adding options to address them so growth is not stunted.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

From what I have read , the 2.3 HPP engine in the 2020 Ecoboost HPP is a stroked 2.0 block. I have not read of a 2.0 bored out block being used in the 2.3 HPP Ecoboost HPP , just the stroked 2.0. The 2.2 HPP is suppose to have a water cooled turbo.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

From what I have read , the 2.3 HPP engine in the 2020 Ecoboost HPP is a stroked 2.0 block.

It’s an open deck block just like other 2.3’s. There may or may not be stronger cylinder liners/sleeves. All 2.3 turbos are water cooled as well.

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