How bad did ford Sandbag the Ecoboost?

[TheLion]

I had a 2012 GT Auto premium and ran mostly regular. Tried premium and not a noticable difference. I now have a 2015 Mustang Ecoboost auto premium PP. Have to run Premium or it falls on its face. I went to FP now I have to run premium. I keep very good track of my mileage and the GT averaged about 21-22 with 27 on long trips, The 2015 Eco averages 25 with 32 to 33 on long trips. Now Premium is up to 50 cents more a gallon! Do the math, it costs almost the same to drive either car. I know from experience! Don't choose the Eco over the GT based on fuel costs if you want full performance from your Mustang Ecoboost! I do like the everyday low speed punch of the turbo, much more fun to drive on the crowded curvy highways around my home, but the acceleration of the GT when punched at 40 MPH is AMAZING!

I did the math as well and came to the same conclusion. The GT makes only 1% less power on 87 than it does on 93. That's 4.35 hp aka 5hp roughly. Not gonna notice a difference between 430 and 435 hp....same torque btw on 87 and 93.

I just recently traded up from my FP tuned EB to a Ruby Red PP GT, same year (2016) for only 110 more on my monthly. Nice thing is I can beat that 5.0 all day long and it will just keep ticking. The rods and crank are also forged, but each cylinder is under much lower pressure. NA engines are also far more forgiving when it comes to knock and malfunctions. The 5.0 has everything in it already, even an oil cooler which none of the EB's came with from the factory no matter what option you went with when they really needed one.

At this point I think smaller displacement TDI engines make the most sense in daily drivers or as sub-versions like in the EB Mustang, if you stay out of boost you can get a reasonable fuel economy advantage. But if you get into boost your fuel economy drops like a rock because your making power...no surprise there. But too many people are thinking the 2.3L will be a 5.0 sans the sound and it just won't be, not without putting some big money into a built bottom end, big turbos or exotic fuels, none of which makes any practical sense if you want a fun, fast and affordable muscle car / sports car. Better to step up to the 5.0...not only that is the thing sounds absolutely beautiful. Mine came with an after market corsa axle back and it sounds a lot like the Challenger Hell Cat. Great sounding car, pure music!

If you want big power, there is no replacement for displacement. Also a stock 5.0 will still easily best a FP tuned and inter cooled EB and the 5.0 has a decent amount of room to grow if that's not enough (and I'm not even talking about the new Gen 3 5.0 making 460 hp / 420 ft-lbs). FP Stage 3 power pack for the gen 2 5.0 gives you a 7500 RPM redline, 37 more peak HP and 60 more HP at 7500 RPM for $1,900 all under a factory warranty. Then there's the super charger kit, 670 hp...there is just no replacement for displacement. TDI engines make sense in certain applications, but when it comes to going fast reliably on pump gas, big meaty V8's are still the best option for the cost.

You can FI a 5.0 with two twin scroll turbos just like a 2.3L as well. Put in forged pistons, upgrade the forged rods etc. and it will always make far more power than the 2.3L. Roughly double...because it has well...double the cylinders (and slightly larger displacement per cylinder). There's just nothing like the 5.0. TDI engines are also far less forgiving to user errors or malfunctions or manufacturing tolerances as well, so there are added risks (yes this would apply to a FI 5.0 as well). How fast is fast enough though? 99% of us have them for street cars for fun. At some point it's fast enough and I personally think we are at that point with the current generations of V8's from Ford, GM and Dodge.

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[Regs]

Congratulations on your new purchase Lion. I admittedly try to talk myself out of wanting or buying one but I think it is inevitable . I can easily cut back on food waste and cable TV just to make up the costs....

 

[MakStang]

I absolutely love my EcoBoost, but if I was not in Europe, where large displacement can get really expensive (at least in my country), I would definitely prefer a V8. There is nothing like the V8 sound and the possibilities are virtually endless.

 

[EcoBond007]

I'm late to the party as usual... So here's my question. I want to fix some of these issues so a bigger intercooler is isn't an issue I don't think but I want to run the Ford Procal tune to have my warranty stay intact will I be able to accommodate a down pipe or will I throw a code? I am just a casual driver. I don't drag or even race light to light but I want my car to last and I want to be safe within the parameters of the stock block. I realize I'm a noob but I appreciate all you guy's input.

 

[ElAviator72]

I'm late to the party as usual... So here's my question. I want to fix some of these issues so a bigger intercooler is isn't an issue I don't think but I want to run the Ford Procal tune to have my warranty stay intact will I be able to accommodate a down pipe or will I throw a code? I am just a casual driver. I don't drag or even race light to light but I want my car to last and I want to be safe within the parameters of the stock block. I realize I'm a noob but I appreciate all you guy's input.

A bigger intercooler is for people who want to track the car. The Achilles' Heel of the car on the track is that it is easy to heat soak the intercooler...and putting a bigger intercooler on doesn't require a tune. I haven't heard of Ford denying a warranty over a big intercooler yet. I would doubt that 90% of all dealers would even know that you changed the intercooler out, as you have to disassemble the front bumper to even see it

A downpipe will almost certainly require a tune (and a non-Ford one at that). Even a catted downpipe.

 

[Regs]

A bigger intercooler will help immensely in the upper rpms even off the track. I was not a believer until I upgraded myself to a cp-e. Downpipe will need a custom tune. I imagine you want a catted one for emissions.

 

[MakStang]

If you don’t track or race the car you don’t need a downpipe. I don’t even know if the dp will improve performance, some people say it will some other say it won’t and take it out. I decided against it because of fuel smell, smoke and because it is too loud. I guess you don’t need one unless you go big turbo. However, if you add an aftermarket dp you definitely need a tune, other than the FP one.

 

[Notes]

A bigger intercooler will help immensely in the upper rpms even off the track. I was not a believer until I upgraded myself to a cp-e. Downpipe will need a custom tune. I imagine you want a catted one for emissions.

A bigger/better IC will help in the lower RPM's -4000 as well during the summer. 3 stop & go's at the red lights and it gets heat-soaked in my experience.

 

[TorqueMan]

I'm late to the party as usual... So here's my question. I want to fix some of these issues so a bigger intercooler is isn't an issue I don't think but I want to run the Ford Procal tune to have my warranty stay intact will I be able to accommodate a down pipe or will I throw a code? I am just a casual driver. I don't drag or even race light to light but I want my car to last and I want to be safe within the parameters of the stock block. I realize I'm a noob but I appreciate all you guy's input.

If your intent is to maintain your warranty I don't think you want to install a downpipe. It isn't so much that the downpipe will void your warranty--if Ford made that claim you could likely successfully argue that in court. It's more that you want to avoid getting into a position where you have to prove your mods aren't to blame for a warranty claim in the first place. It's been my experience that the best way to win in court is to stay out of the courtroom. Once you're there you've already lost.

Aftermarket cat-back exhaust systems are among the most common mods, and they don't really require any other mods to the car, which is why Ford won't bat an eye about them. But as others have noted, a new downpipe--especially one that deletes the cat--will require a tune to get the most out of. And if it's a catless downpipe it's meant to be used offroad, which to Ford means racing. Now you're getting into a situation where Ford will take a much harder look at whether or not your warranty applies should something catastrophic happen.

Here's what the lawyer will ask: "Are you racing this car?"
You: "No."
Lawyer: "Why are you installing racing equipment that makes your car illegal to use on the street if you're not racing it?"

 

[MakStang]

^ Good point

 

[trippleyelo]

Funny sh.t there bro..:cheers:

Torqueman and wife..

 

[Glenn G]

Down-pipe, catted or not requires a tune. so that right there is a warranty no-go, if you run a down pipe without a tune, you actually can damage the motor as the flow rates will be completely off.

Let's say your engine dies because your O2 sensors malfunctioned and you ran lean, running lean is one of the things that a downpipe can do if untuned. You will absolutely lose in court if you took it that far. Let's say your lawyer is bad-ass and gets you a specialist that proves it was the O2 sensor and you win. Ford covers the $5 grand repair bill (really about $2500 in parts and warranty labor rates for Ford internally) You get the $10-15k bill from the laywer and $3-5K bill from the expert. (If you lose you get those and the court fees). Should've just bought a built engine at that point. and come out way ahead.

I love my Ecoboost, Wouldn't trade if for a GT ever, Big ol NA engines were never my thing. Cost is just another benefit to me, Just about every GT owner I met thinks i got it because I couldn't afford a "real one". My wife and I are set financially, We got her Fiesta ST back in March and paid for it on the spot. Why, She wanted something new to drive rather than our 94 Supra. Sadly, I doubt I will buy another Mustang, This forum has pretty much confirmed every prejudice I ever had about Mustang owners from my youth when I refused to own anything that wasn't right hand drive and turbo (3 Skylines, 2 Supras and Lotus Esprit). Our Club here in Germany had a rule not allowing V8 Mustangs owners, as the garage owner and organizer thought 9 out of 10 were snobby, elitist, douchebags to anybody without 8 holes in the block. After briefly joining a few Mustang clubs, I can tell you he was mostly right it's really only 6 out of 10. After out-running a bunch of GTs on the Autobahn and only barely getting pulled on by a GT350 I had one of those guys tell me "It's not a real Mustang".

 

[Ebm]

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Down-pipe, catted or not requires a tune. so that right there is a warranty no-go, if you run a down pipe without a tune, you actually can damage the motor as the flow rates will be completely off.

Let's say your engine dies because your O2 sensors malfunctioned and you ran lean, running lean is one of the things that a downpipe can do if untuned. You will absolutely lose in court if you took it that far. Let's say your lawyer is bad-ass and gets you a specialist that proves it was the O2 sensor and you win. Ford covers the $5 grand repair bill (really about $2500 in parts and warranty labor rates for Ford internally) You get the $10-15k bill from the laywer and $3-5K bill from the expert. (If you lose you get those and the court fees). Should've just bought a built engine at that point. and come out way ahead.

I love my Ecoboost, Wouldn't trade if for a GT ever, Big ol NA engines were never my thing. Cost is just another benefit to me, Just about every GT owner I met thinks i got it because I couldn't afford a "real one". My wife and I are set financially, We got her Fiesta ST back in March and paid for it on the spot. Why, She wanted something new to drive rather than our 94 Supra. Sadly, I doubt I will buy another Mustang, This forum has pretty much confirmed every prejudice I ever had about Mustang owners from my youth when I refused to own anything that wasn't right hand drive and turbo (3 Skylines, 2 Supras and Lotus Esprit). Our Club here in Germany had a rule not allowing V8 Mustangs owners, as the garage owner and organizer thought 9 out of 10 were snobby, elitist, douchebags to anybody without 8 holes in the block. After briefly joining a few Mustang clubs, I can tell you he was mostly right it's really only 6 out of 10. After out-running a bunch of GTs on the Autobahn and only barely getting pulled on by a GT350 I had one of those guys tell me "It's not a real Mustang".

It'll probably be my last Mustang as well. Out of all the enthusiast forums I've ever been on, this forum wins the trash talking and douchebaggery award hands down. The N/A thing was never my thing either. I'm a FI guy, whether it be gas or diesel.

The worst V8 elitist mentality are the older folks. They aren't accepting of something different in a Mustang because it isn't what they grew up with.

Sadly, prejudice is in every aspect of the car world. In Mustangs and Camaros, anything less than 8 cylinders and you are an outcast. In Jeeps, if you own a Renegade or a Compass, people get pissed and call it a Fiat instead of a Jeep and talk trash to you.

It's ridiculous to think you are better than somebody because of what you drive. Everybody has different priorities in life. Some people have what I call a head start in life(mommy and daddy's bank account) and others have had to work for everything they've had. Despite where somebody comes from, you should treat them normally whether they are broke or live in a massive mansion.

 

[ElAviator72]

It'll probably be my last Mustang as well. Out of all the enthusiast forums I've ever been on, this forum wins the trash talking and douchebaggery award hands down. The N/A thing was never my thing either. I'm a FI guy, whether it be gas or diesel.

The worst V8 elitist mentality are the older folks. They aren't accepting of something different in a Mustang because it isn't what they grew up with.

Sadly, prejudice is in every aspect of the car world. In Mustangs and Camaros, anything less than 8 cylinders and you are an outcast. In Jeeps, if you own a Renegade or a Compass, people get pissed and call it a Fiat instead of a Jeep and talk trash to you.

It's ridiculous to think you are better than somebody because of what you drive. Everybody has different priorities in life. Some people have what I call a head start in life(mommy and daddy's bank account) and others have had to work for everything they've had. Despite where somebody comes from, you should treat them normally whether they are broke or live in a massive mansion.

Meh, blow them off. I'm 100% Mustang enthusiast even though I don't own a V8. I've yet to hear anyone trash the 1984-1986 SVO...we're kind of the better selling equivalent of that. In fact, the overwhelming majority of Mustang sales in the US are the ecoboost (only 39% of sales are the GT the last time I checked...). Where I work, everyone except Mustang purists think my car is pretty bad ass...

 

[drwalker887]

Glenn the heck with those haters, but I do have to tell you I loved you videos and a win is a win who cares what they say. I have lurked here for a while. This is a haven for Mama's boys that have no clue. You got guys here that cannot gap there own plugs so they pay to have it done. I do not think it's the older guys as I am one, it is very much the younger guys that hide behind the keyboard hiding who they are. I like cars,I like mustangs .... I could of got any model I wanted but chose the EB. I think it is cool I can fly to Germany or other countries now and see a cool mustang. Fact is alot if these haters do not know what the SVO was and over half probably weren't born yet. They have no idea how a 5.0 guy was really shakey about racing the big bad turbo. They jump on the EB with the GT because they think a supercharger is a bolt on. Bolt on for bolt on it is a very close race. And a race can be decided by the driver not the car. Ignore them they are haters and douche bags, simple minded babies. It's really easy for them to video a kick run not being honest about that supercharger or nitrous kit and post on you tube, but if it doesn't work as they plan the cry. In the past it was a drivers battle , show me under your hood and I'll let you see mine. If I don't like what I see we don't race and likewise. And a drag race in the old days was from a dead stop, not 30mph. Glenn just have fun with what you have . Don't let these dicks sway your fun. Remember you don't have to share everything here with these kids

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