Hellcat vs GT350 from a roll, who wins?

[AdamIsAdam]

Today I was driving a very well traveled route from a car show known for high speed runs. I was next to a Hellcat challenger and he wanted to run. We were doing about 60mph. I must be getting old, because I resisted (well, old or WISE! Because there were at least 5 troopers with radar pulling people over just before this area, and also this area is sometimes even patrolled by helicopter! So yea, I declined the run.)

But anyway, I know a Hellcat is in the 11.0 range in the quarter, but what about from a roll from 60 to about, say, 120. Does the Shelby stand a chance?

BTW, the Hellcat took off and the Turbo 911 on my other side went after him. Both had fun and no one was arrested or died. The only thing hurt during the making of this post was my ego!

I did at least take this nice pic today. (I feel like such a poser! LOL)

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[TDC]

Hellcat will walk the Shelby no doubt. Probably would have 3-4 car lengths by 120. I saw a run against a Scat Pack Challenger from a 50 mph roll and the Shelby only pulled a car length by 100. Neither car had mods, Challenger was an automatic and the Shelby had good gear changes shifting around 7800-8000rpm.

Good judgment BTW in not engaging in street racing. If you really want to enjoy the hell out of your car bring it to an HPDE road course. It’s a blast and the car is EXTREMELY capable.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

Yea, I figured it would pounce. But honestly, the Shelby is SO strong on the road it's crazy. And yes, I'm a big proponent of HPDE.

This race seemed pretty decent:

 

[Hack]

You will win on a road course in the GT350, and you might take a Hellcat Challenger in a second gear pull from ~30 to the top of second gear, depending on how much traction the Hellcat has and the driver's skills.

But once you get beyond second gear the Hellcat is going to have too much power for the GT350 to keep up.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

I really have to drive something 700+ hp one of these days.

 

[JR369]

I've had a 16 HC A8. Funnest straight line car I've owned. Stock vs stock it will crush a GT350. Only reason I wanted to get rid of it was it felt like a land yacht and I wanted back into a more handling manual. Great cruiser and bruiser tho.

 

[GTthree50]

You made a good call. Hard to imagine the Shelby having any chance again a Hellcat considering the power disadvantage and worse if the Challenger is an auto. Must be something about those Challenger drivers as I get goaded by more Challengers than any other car. I have one clown who has been trying to get me to run for months.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

Just for the record: you guys are NOT helping! I'm a 1320 guy at heart. All muscle. But low 12's in the quarter ain't too shabby, and it turns and stops too! lol
But alas, I do not have the garage for that land yacht, or I would have given it serious consideration.

In the end, I like the rarity of a GT350 over the Hellcars that have been around for over 10 years. They are everywhere. My Lead Foot Gray with stripes is one of 396. PERIOD. (gotta love a one year only color ;-) This car turns heads more than any Hellcat at the local shows. It ain't no Demon, but it's a little different than the rest of the parking lot.

Funny story: I was at an all Mustang event this weekend thrown by a Ford dealer. Very well attended event. I had a guy come up to me and declare the following: "This is THE nicest car in the entire show." Now, was he right? Maybe, maybe not. But he said it. And I enjoyed hearing it. :~D

 

[Ed M]

I saw a run against a Scat Pack Challenger from a 50 mph roll and the Shelby only pulled a car length by 100. Neither car had mods, Challenger was an automatic and the Shelby had good gear changes shifting around 7800-8000rpm.

Why was he short-shifting?

 

[AdamIsAdam]

Why was he short-shifting?

It's not necessarily always adventitious to shift at redline. The Voodoo makes peak HP at 7400 RPM as I recall. So ideal shift points have to do with the ideal RPM of the next gear too. For example, look at the attached, if you shift 1-2 at 8250, then you are at 368 ft lbs in 2nd gear at 5661 RPM. If you shift 1-2 at 7500, you are at 372 lb ft at 5146 RPM. If HP falls off after the 7400 peak RPM, then it may not be necessary to go past it. Now, based on this power curve, it's probably a wash since HP seems pretty flat up top. So, the only real way to determine ideal shift points is probably on the track comparing ET and MPH in the traps.

 

[SVTinAR]

That's a great video. Very clear, multiple runs, lots of camera angles. Enjoyed it - thanks for posting.

 

[Angry50]

It's not necessarily always adventitious to shift at redline. The Voodoo makes peak HP at 7400 RPM as I recall. So ideal shift points have to do with the ideal RPM of the next gear too. For example, look at the attached, if you shift 1-2 at 8250, then you are at 368 ft lbs in 2nd gear at 5661 RPM. If you shift 1-2 at 7500, you are at 372 lb ft at 5146 RPM. If HP falls off after the 7400 peak RPM, then it may not be necessary to go past it. Now, based on this power curve, it's probably a wash since HP seems pretty flat up top. So, the only real way to determine ideal shift points is probably on the track comparing ET and MPH in the traps.

if i under stand what youre trying to say is you believe shifting at 7k is faster than shifting at 8250? is this taking into account additional acceleration from gearing? id like to see some testing.. i think its false but would be interesting to see. and the assumption you would want to shift for peak torque and not peak HP

 

[AdamIsAdam]

You're partially right in understanding what I was saying. Not 7k shifting, but it's very possible that shifting at 7400 is faster than 8250. The idea being that HP falls off after peak RPM of 7400, and that since the next gear (ie, 2nd gear) actually has a little higher torque at the slightly lower RPM, it maybe be faster or at least negligible. I too would like to see testing of a GT350 on the track using varying shift points.

I came from Pontiac muscle cars. Those cars were big torque monsters. On mine peak HP was reached around 5000 RPM, with a redline of 6000 RPM. MOST pontiacs were the same ET time and speed when they shifted anywhere from 4800 to 5400 rpm, and went slower the more they revved before shifting.

Now, again, these old cars always had more torque than HP, so they're different than Voodoo motors, but in looking at the Ford dyno charts, it makes me wonder how much difference there is to going the extra 800 RPM. It all likely happens so fast that it's hard to even know for sure, at least in the 1-2 shift, but if anyone is a regular at the track, inquiring minds want to know!

 

[rocsteady]

Been a couple occasions where there was no traffic and had open turnpike or highway and couldn't resist... GT350 is noticeably faster than the 392 Chargers /Challengers I've encountered, starting from 65+ mph. Chalked a bit of that up to aerodynamics? Similar experience with one late model M3 that sounded much faster than it was? Different story with a couple Hellcats though!

 

[Face76]

Not sure what tire package the HC is running but my Hellcat is noticably faster than the 2016 Track Pack car I owned. The HC is so under-tired that good standing starts are pretty hard to accomplish.

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