GT350 vs. Z/28

[Trackaholic]

I just don't understand WHY a select number of people care so much about what one person on an Internet message board posts. Take it for what it's worth, but those people have to realize that the content of thePill's posts are intended to get the reaction they get. Pill makes no bones about his disdain for the Camaro, and he makes it a point to denegrate that vehicle with every post he makes. The accuracy of what he posts is secondary to it's desired effect, and based on the number of people who have come into this thread with the sole intent to "discredit" his posts, he's reeling in exactly what he's fishing for. It's freakin' hilarious! You'd think some people would have the good sense not to play his game, but apparently not!

It benefits all to know what speculation is worth putting credence into, or what technical info is accurate. Discussing incorrect info isn't an attempt to "discredit", but rather an attempt to educate and correct inaccuracies.

I've enjoyed the discussion so far, as it has remained relatively civil.

I'm mostly here for the opcorn:

-T

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[Colleton]

Keep fighting the good fight, thePill.

 

[Taneras]

It benefits all to know what speculation is worth putting credence into, or what technical info is accurate. Discussing incorrect info isn't an attempt to "discredit", but rather an attempt to educate and correct inaccuracies.

I've enjoyed the discussion so far, as it has remained relatively civil.

I'm mostly here for the opcorn:

-T

I agree, I don't quite understand this "why are you so obsessed with Phil" mindset. Even assuming its true, who cares? They're wasting their own time and effort, not mine. The only thing that matters to me is accuracy and if they're right, even if they are obsessed and comb through every letter of thePill's posts, I'd still like them to speak up.

 

[garagelogic]

Unless you are an employee of Ford, with direct knowledge regarding the Mustang, everything posted about the future versions of the car is pure speculation. There is no "accuracy" to be had. Unless, of course, you're one of those who gets bent out of shape about his commentary regarding the GM offering that competes directly with the original pony car.

 

[Taneras]

There is no "accuracy" to be had. Unless, of course, you're one of those who gets bent out of shape about his commentary regarding the GM offering that competes directly with the original pony car.

I don't see what that has to do with accuracy, which goes back to my point.

Don't worry if someone is ruining their own afternoon getting bent out of shape, are they right or wrong? That's all that should matter. Seeing the focus shift so much towards people's mindset and motives is just a red herring. Maybe its good banter and just a shot below the belt, but regarding the conversation at hand its off topic at best and illogical at worst.

 

[garagelogic]

If you're coming to a Mustang-centric site looking for accurate information regarding the z/28, maybe you should rethink why you're here.

 

[Taneras]

If you're coming to a Mustang-centric site looking for accurate information regarding the z/28, maybe you should rethink why you're here.

If you're letting your personal preferences affect the accuracy of your claims perhaps you should rethink your motives - that should apply to all settings.

Having a community who not only throws around inaccurate information but takes pride in said inaccuracies should be embarrassing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking sides. ThePill could be 100% correct, I just don't think simply questioning someone's motives is a logical rebuttal. I don't care if someone is a raging Chevy fan boy and is up all night worrying about what's posted here, I care if they're right or wrong.

 

[thePill]

Still whining?

We are no longer debating my original topics?

Im gonna start posting my own personal info about me and my life. Pill-heads...


Team Camaro can simulate results, screw the stopwatch and give you endless lines of BS.

But let's question thePill's methods of info gathering, regardless if nearly everything spoken of has come to be pretty accurate.

You would rather s@ck Chevy's d!ck than listen (or constructively add) to the argument.


You could write for pages and it won't change the details that were just released. Nor will I let your butthurt limit my findings.

The handful of you on here tried to rally against the message, admittedly far before anything came true. Now it's a back-peddle session and we all are here to let you speak your peace. It's not changing any minds, a few haters might hate more but that's their right.

The z28's was truly a flop, sales flop, Motorsport flop. It only did well in magazine comparisons... 6 of the 10 major z28 reports came from Motor Trend. We all know Motor Trend acquires their very own work, out there in the thick, taken spy pics...


No, that's not correct... In fact, major media usually comes here, FB or Twitter to gather info. What is the difference between MY speculation and info gather and Motor Trends? Because Motor Trend is paid to test?

I think we should march over to every major media outlet and tell them their reports are false because the got the truth from someone. Motor Trend raved about the z28 but still hasn't said anything about them cheating at the Ring.


That's okay, while major media and Chevrolet pull the wool over your eyes, thePill will do his best to keep us on "track".


If I were you, I would super-glue my figures crossed in hopes none of my remaining speculation isn't correct. It will be a loooooooong Gen it's true...

Any guesses as to what a Non-ATS-V Coupe weighs with the 8 speed auto? Over 3850lbs...

The z28 is beat on PtW alone and the 6th Gen is set to be pretty hefty.

 

[Taneras]

Still whining?

We are no longer debating my original topics?

Im gonna start posting my own personal info about me and my life. Pill-heads...

We are no longer debating your original topics because some of your fans are derailing the conversation by making comments like "you losing sleep bro", "you bent out of shape bro", and "you obsessed bro" at people who disagree with you. Instead of having a conversation about your information, some of us are having to explain to people that those comments aren't helpful or relevant.

I'd ask you to call your disciples off so the conversation could resume but you seem to be of the same mindset.

Team Camaro can simulate results, screw the stopwatch and give you endless lines of BS.

But let's question thePill's methods of info gathering, regardless if nearly everything spoken of has come to be pretty accurate.

The photo thing wasn't questioning your method of gathering info, it was questioning your presentation of it.

You would rather s@ck Chevy's d!ck than listen (or constructively add) to the argument.

Oh boy, better hope Brent302 doesn't read this. He is easily offended and got the phrase "circular activities" removed from one of my posts. He'll flip if he sees this... Well probably not, I think he agrees with you so he'll allow for a double standard.

Now it's a back-peddle session and we all are here to let you speak your peace.

I can't imagine the Camaro forums were much farther off on the weight the Alpha will turn out to be than you were on the S550's weight.

The z28's was truly a flop, sales flop, Motorsport flop. It only did well in magazine comparisons... 6 of the 10 major z28 reports came from Motor Trend. We all know Motor Trend acquires their very own work, out there in the thick, taken spy pics...

I don't follow circuit racing much but I'm fairly sure the Z28 won quite a few races since its induction. I agree that Motor Trend has made errors, but its not smart to throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

The z28 is beat on PtW alone and the 6th Gen is set to be pretty hefty.

I don't think you've received much criticism for suggesting the GT350 would outperform the Z28.

As far as the 6th gen being pretty hefty, even if only lost 50lbs from the last gen and is starting out at 3,850lbs it would only need around 450hp to match the S550's power to weight ratio.

Obviously its tough to speculate exactly where the Alpha will fall, but its safe to say that it's going to be essentially even with the S550 GT on power:weight. Which sucks for mustang fans (including myself) because that was an area the Mustang had the advantage.

 

[TORQUERULES]

You know, I have watched all of this arguing unfold and find it all very interesting, but realistically the new Camaro will not be a 3500-3600lb car in V8 form. You just have to go on GM's own Cadillac site and check out the ATS and CTS (sedan), which are both Alpha chassis models, weights to get an idea of where the Camaro will fall. The Camaro, best case, will weigh pretty much the same as the Mustang +/- 50lbs. Worst case it will weigh more across the board. I do not think it really takes a lot of research to figure that out when you can look at GM's own numbers.

My concern is how well Ford will respond. The HP/TQ hidden in the newest Coyote is obvious. They are restricting the hell out of it. As for chassis, even the PP model is cushy compared to the last version. They can step things up there with a track pack. There are also weight saving measures not used yet.

 

[thePill]

From now on, I will improve my presentation..

Power to weight should be pretty close as it stands right now. As it stands right now though. We need to consider that the '15 Mustang had a projected MSRP of 32,5xx, I reported that MSRP here in June 2013. The goal was to undercut the current Camaro's MSRP. The sales race was far more important initially and that has swung back in their favor.

Ford has a few tricks up its sleeve for both Coyote and weight loss. We can see Ford missed that target by $400 dollars at $32,9xx. My 3500lbs Mustang does exist, just not here. We can't even de-content the EU GT to get 3550lbs... but the structure is there.

Fast forward to today, the same people "slipped" the Camaro's targets MSRP's as well. I got a $36,505-37,995 this time, a range instead of an exact number. This could just be they way they do things on the team, one has a specific target and the other has a range in case they need to be more/less competitive.

I'm gonna put Ford and Chevy in the same boat here and say, neither Mustang or Camaro looks like they were really bothered by weight. The Mustang contented up and the Camaro could very well uses 20's again. I don't really see an extreme effort by either company. The Camaro could lose 30-50lbs just by kicking down to 19's. With a 13.79 rotor, an 18 is more than doable. But, if the Camaro was designed with 20's in mind, it will look a little out of place (see Z/28.R). The ATS-V had 18's in mind the whole time.

Geometry... Yes, now that this is an acceptable concept, that Wheelbase:Track ratio will be super important. The closer these cars get, the more they will need to be similar to be head to head competitive. I'm not a huge fan of that, they are getting close now.

Geometry can be fixed with tire but, what's more important, 40lbs of widen structure? Or 40lbs of rotational mass and unsprung weight. It's a huge trade off...

Weight is one thing, mass, geometry and tire is another. Right now the Mustang is sitting pretty at $32,995 at 3705lbs with 435hp.

 

[w3rkn]

uhh...theres a difference between bias, fanboy, and spreading miss-leading information.

I agree^.
The minutia of "miss-leading is scant. ANd... you can only miss-lead someone who doesn't know and is seeking that info. Do you think any of the people who have bought a Mustang care, or know about Golden :: ??

People who need to be led around, will always have the chance to be misled.


IMO:
The Pill is a trip and I love the fact that the Camaro bois are on edge at his every word. And they should be, the Mustang is a better product.

 

[thePill]

Mustang sells 13,144 in April

5th Gen Production ends 20 November 2015. Looks like my December leak was good.

You should be able to receive your first 6th Gen's right before Christmas. This production mandate will homologate the Camaro in CTSCC. If it's late, I think you can apply for a production waiver. However, I need to check if that is a development year regulation.

 

[Strokerswild]

I'm mostly here for the opcorn:

Yep.

 

[lil=john]

yep, this is entertaining. better than the stories " As thepill Turns" But I like it..........I need Help..

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