GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

First of all we need to get on the same page as far as fuel. Seems to me Pill argues almost empty tank and everyone else is using numbers for a full tank. Can we at least agree to use a common baseline? I would also suggest quoting numbers without the trunk junk since you won't be carrying that weight at the track.

It's impossible... splitting theoretical hairs being fun, is only a ballpark method. Just as our Race Weight can vary, so can the media's Curb Weight.

As long as the racers are happy, we couldn't care less about the 10-30lbs whoops, especially if they are applied to both vehicles.

My concern was, the original reported figure was suppose to be an 87lbs gain. Reality is, there is actually much less of a gap...

...how much of that play weight gets into the GT350 is beyond me...

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[DivineStrike]

Actually, the pill is estimating for there to be more fuel in the tank than there is. And no, it should include everything that is oem since part of the argument is that the manufacturer estimated curb weight is incorrect. Which it isn't. The pill has already started using a full fuel weight and trunk junk calculation....he's just using bad math.

The pill is giving these cars 2-3 gallons of gas when both cars weighed have had less than a gallon


Also the pill, you are still omitting the facts about the curb weight. I have nothing against optimism...I'm actually a pretty optimistic person. You are just giving out misinformation. Not everything you are saying is misinformation but you claim on what the curb weight of these 15s curb weight absolutely is false.

 

[thePill]

Actually, the pill is estimating for there to be more fuel in the tank than there is. And no it should include everything that is oem since part of the argument is that the manufacturer estimated curb weight is incorrect. Which it isn't.

The pill is giving these cars 2-3 gallons of gas when both cars weighed have had less than a gallon

No, as I stated, I always assume the tank is at ZERO then add in the 96lbs on top of the figures. I delete the fuel in the tank regardless of what is reported. Even if it had 2 gallons in the tank, I still add in the 96lbs to try and alleviate that unknown variable.

It is working from the worst case scenario which admittedly, is only 3-18lbs.

Don't try and speak for me...

 

[Stuntman]

one of these guys had no idea what tire pressure does to distribution

That person is you. Please go put a car on some scales, and deflate the rear tires and see what the F-R % shift is and report back ;)

Go tell an Open Wheel F or Indy car they don't have a cage, they will look at you funny.

Anyone at indycar would look at you funny for calling their carbon monocoque 'tub' (with a roll hoop) a 'cage'.

 

[thePill]

That person is you. Please go put a car on some scales, and deflate the rear tires and see what the F-R % shift is and report back ;)


Anyone at indycar would look at you funny for calling their carbon monocoque 'tub' (with a roll hoop) a 'cage'.

 

[DivineStrike]

Yes, so far we observed a 3656-3697lbs spread on five (05) 2015 Mustang GT's weighed.

The above weight estimates is just an ESTIMATE based on the base-lined Race weights of customers cars. We will NEVER fully disclose customer info EVER but, we can add in the weight and give you an estimate.

Also, these weights assume the tank as ZERO fuel and 96lbs is added onto the current race weight (unknown here). All Mustang's weighed had some fuel in them but were ALL well under 50 to E.

All estimates are w/o the 13lbs of Junk except one which had the 5lbs pump removed ONLY.

I'm not sure if you could find a 2011-2014 Premium under Ford's 3616-3622lbs (the gain between the 11/12 and 13/14 Ford claims). But then again, not many magazines actually weigh the cars so, that is out.

Ford use to report the Base and Premium separately but only used the 3622lbs as the OFFICIAL Curb Weight while ignoring the 3580lbs. I am wondering if the same thing has happened here...

Previous Gen Mustang's had a 42lbs weight difference (weight of the Premium Package). Could this 3705lbs be a Premium as to present a heaviest case scenario? If only ONE single curb weight is reported this Gen, is there a possibility that we could see a similar weight difference in the real world?

thePill says....



YES....


Edit: Use this as a rule of thumb. We have a good idea how much the Performance Pack weighs now right? About 70lbs.

Now, even if we use THE ONLY GTPP on here that was weighed (at 3744lbs), what's that give us? That's 3674lbs right there bud. Wolf weighed a Black GTPP at 3722lbs and 3718lbs....

Yes, a GTPP... What does that tell you when equipment is deleted?

No, as I stated, I always assume the tank is at ZERO then add in the 96lbs on top of the figures. I delete the fuel in the tank regardless of what is reported. Even if it had 2 gallons in the tank, I still add in the 96lbs to try and alleviate that unknown variable.

It is working from the worst case scenario which admittedly, is only 3-18lbs.

Don't try and speak for me...

Right So using your math of 96lbs (which isn't 16 gallons of gas btw...16 gallons is 100.8 lbs) and subtracting the 13 lbs of trunk junk...your base weight for the two GT's you are referencing (your 15 gt and the one pictured a few pages back)

Actual scale weights of the two mustangs in question 3577 and 3593.

YOu are saying the using your weights in bold subtracting 96lbs of fuel and trunk junk...you get a 3547lb 15 GT? Umm NO, that Mustang weighed 3577 according to you in an earlier post.

The other higher weight you have....subtract your fuel and trunk junk calculation, you get 3588lbs. The mustang weighed 3593.

You don't even have the same spread in weight difference between the actual vehicle weights. Therefor you are not using the same calculation in fuel weight. IE you are giving false information.

 

[DivineStrike]

That person is you. Please go put a car on some scales, and deflate the rear tires and see what the F-R % shift is and report back ;)

stuntman, I hate to agree with the pill here. I've been avoiding commenting on this. But deflating your rear tires is essentially lowering the rear height of your car therefor changing your weight distribution. Although I have no clue why you would lower them that much as to change the percentage significantly. It is the same as corner weighting your vehicle when yo have a set of coilovers. You change the ride height in each corner to balance the weight.

 

[Stuntman]

stuntman, I hate to agree with the pill here. I've been avoiding commenting on this. But deflating your rear tires is essentially lowering the rear height of your car therefor changing your weight distribution. Although I have no clue why you would lower them that much as to change the percentage significantly. It is the same as corner weighting your vehicle when yo have a set of coilovers. You change the ride height in each corner to balance the weight.

No respectable person would try to change their weight distribution by playing with tire pressures.

Changing the cars rake by raising one end of the car will not give the 2-3% distribution shift that ThePill is claiming, unless you are talking raising one end by FEET. The change in height (a couple inches max) is not significant enough to cause a noticeable shift in the cars static weight distribution due to the cars Cg height and the length of the wheelbase. Changing the tire pressure is taking this concept to an even smaller degree and will likely make less than a 0.1% change.

 

[thePill]

Listen, the scales don't lie. We observed what we observed...

The math is correct, the S550 is very close to the S197 it was benchmarked from in the weight respect.

It isn't as devastating as the 87lbs previously reported. It is quite livable especially given the caliber of standard equipment.

We have the weights of the base GT's, so, there should be no reason a GT350 comes out weighing the same or heavier and Ford still claims an official weight loss.

If it is 135lbs lighter, it better register as such once one is weighed.

Right now, based on what we hear and what was already observed, a GT350R will weigh 3450ish based on the GT's weight and current configuration (some minor weight removal and fuel). Making a 3450lbs GT350R difficult to do... At that rate, it would be closer to 3550lbs making a GT350 around 3690lbs.

The GT350's Track Package may not be as heavy as the GT's Performance Package. I'm not completely sure as to what the TP contains.

 

[02gtnh]

Originally, the GT's weight was a concern because it directly translates to the GT350.

These guys have posted about 2 dozen curb weights and none of them got within 8lbs of Fords claim.

If the Power to Weight Ratio is correct at 6.63, then the GT350R will be below 3500lbs at 520hp. That is far out of the z28's league. At 3600lbs, it would need to produce 543hp to come out at 6.63 PtW.



No, I think some of you are extremely offended by optimism. Furthermore, I have reason to believe it throttles some people when my "wild speculation" comes out closer than some are comfortable admitting. If I didn't have real world curb weights and actual experience in this area, I probably wouldn't say anything at all.

Put yourselves in my shoes, one of these guys didn't know the LS7 was a Corvette engine, one of these guys had no idea what tire pressure does to distribution and, one of you think you know cage construction... Go tell an Open Wheel F or Indy car they don't have a cage, they will look at you funny.

I don't skip your post to be rude, I just lose interest once what I claimed is observed by a 3rd Party.

We were very happy the 2015 was slightly lighter than my 2011. Terry was ever so happy one was within 30lbs of his lightened 2011.

Some people are offended by our delight apparently...

Riddle me this...

Is there an 87lbs Curb Weight difference between the 2011 GT and the 2015 GT? The only person to show his cards says NO, it is within 30lbs. I say that gap will be closer once it's said and done. I have reason to believe that this is due to Curb Weight reporting standards and the absence of two reported curb weights.

Not as big of a deal as the 3-4 of you are making it out to be. Did I mislead people here with my 3577lbs claim? No, I wouldn't think so... Not while the very first weigh-in was 16lbs away from my claim and, well within my 20/20 spread estimate. Lying about my 2011's weight??? Come on man... Get over it... Terry sent out a picture of his 2011 at 3663lbs, again, only 16lbs from my claim. We were at slightly different deletion at our Phase 0 but, they were close.



Now, MY FEAR, is that some of that 87lbs somehow finds its way into the official GT350 curb weight. This is going to get confusing... Ford already quoted the "135lbs" is from the GT350TP, WHY IS THE GT350TP being used? Will that be the official curb weight for the GT350 while the base is left alone?

Why report a GT350TP curb weight while using a Base GT curb weight? Why is a "Base" selected as official and a Track Pack is optioned for the "lighter" sports version of the S550? How could we ever really know the weight savings if we don't know every models weight?

Or, I can just drop the subject and let my faithful readers get blindsided by a regulatory technicality.

Please show us where any of us were off Fords curb weight. Just one post is all I'm asking. Your making yourself look silly. Show us Terry 2011 weight and we will again show you that your numbers are wrong.

 

[Pablo GT350]

Terry from Vorshlag weighed a Mustang GT non Premium, non performance pack V8 at 3593 pounds.
3593+13+96=3702

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...15-mustang-horsepower-ratings-ecoboost-v6-gt/
Roll a base 2015 6MT Mustang GT fastback onto the scales and it'll show 3705 lbs. That's an 87-lb increase over the 2014.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/ford-mustang-gt-shootout-2014-vs-2015
Margaret, my 2014 Mustang GT, has 420 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque. It weighs 3,618 pounds, giving it a power to weight ratio of 8.61. I ordered the Recaro manual seats and GT Track Package, which includes the 19-inch wheels with summer tires, the Torsen limited-slip differential and the 3.73 rear axle ratio. Our test subject, the 2015 GT, makes 435 hp and 400 lb-ft. It weighs 3,705 pounds for a power to weight ratio of 8.51. Technically, the 2015 should feel faster. Complicating things, our test Mustang didn’t have the GT Performance Pack, which replaces the Track Pack for 2015

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-mustang-gt-instrumented-test-review

This one is a PP with recaros, and also looks to be premium: Curb weight: 3810 lb

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1409_2015_ford_mustang_gt_first_test/
Here is another PP premium: So why isn't the new ponycar faster than the old one, or handle as well given its horsepower and torque bump and new suspension? One word: weight. The new Mustang GT weighs in at 3814 pounds, a 196-pound increase over the last similarly equipped Mustang GT we tested.


So, it seems pretty clear a base GT weighs 3705 and Premium PP weighs 3810.
I can't find weights on a non-premium PP.

 

[thePill]

Please show us where any of us were off Fords curb weight. Just one post is all I'm asking. Your making yourself look silly. Show us Terry 2011 weight and we will again show you that your numbers are wrong.

So it wasn't within 30lbs of Terry's car? I am confused by the issue...

Terry's car weighed 3718lbs fully loaded, he was extremely happy the next car he weighed was 3593lbs.

We were extremely happy to see one at 3577lbs especially when my 2011 weighed 3579lbs.

This is not a major issue, I am sure there will be Base GT's that weigh 3705lbs, I am also sure there is a chance a Premium could weigh the same due to variation.

This is why I think that number was picked... It isn't Rocket Math...

...and this also proves there is at least 125lbs of options from Base to Loaded, which is also good to know.

We assume this to be 70 for the PP, 45 for the Premium 12 and about 10-15lbs of stand alone options (not counting floor mats or spare).

Once the Track Package details are clear, we can try and figure a Package Weight for the TP. It shouldn't be 70lbs but, who knows.

 

[02gtnh]

So it wasn't within 30lbs of Terry's car? I am confused by the issue...

Show me Terry's weight, then I will explain.

 

[thePill]

Show me Terry's weight, then I will explain.

You haven't even seen his 2011 scale session and you are arguing against it? It's embedded into his Triple Yellow Premium GTPP thread and I will warn you, he has some OEM lightweighting done on that 3563lbs.

 

[02gtnh]

So it wasn't within 30lbs of Terry's car? I am confused by the issue...

Terry's car weighed 3718lbs fully loaded, he was extremely happy the next car he weighed was 3593lbs.

We were extremely happy to see one at 3577lbs especially when my 2011 weighed 3579lbs.

This is not a major issue, I am sure there will be Base GT's that weigh 3705lbs, I am also sure there is a chance a Premium could weigh the same due to variation.

This is why I think that number was picked... It isn't Rocket Math...

...and this also proves there is at least 125lbs of options from Base to Loaded, which is also good to know.

We assume this to be 70 for the PP, 45 for the Premium 12 and about 10-15lbs of stand alone options (not counting floor mats or spare).

Once the Track Package details are clear, we can try and figure a Package Weight for the TP. It shouldn't be 70lbs but, who knows.

Your numbers are everywhere. You just said a few post ago that Terry's weight was 3663, now your saying 3718.:headbonk:

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