GT350 vs. Z/28

[FATTBoss]

That trick stuff, the CC brakes and Multimatic developed suspension is what makes the Z/28 a Z/28. The race car is merely the GSR that was already being raced, unsuccessfully but improving as the series moved along, with some Z/28 style body panels and the LS7 engine.

While the Boss suspension is also different, as is the trans, the car is closer to its street counterpart. The basics of the suspension are the same on the Boss, and was toned down for street use and liveability on the customer's end.One has to wonder if the street Z isn't faster than the race car version even lugging around the extra weight.

All I am saying is this: I hope Ford does not develop the GT350 against a competition rule package, but rather chooses to build an awesome handling and performing car using the best of what is available while still keeping the car within the reach of the "common man".

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[thePill]

What I believe is, the new GT will cover a majority of Boss classes as well as it's own. It's just plain faster and has more potential to go further. The GT350 will be the Mustangs first real GT car since, ummm well... 1965... This will place it in with the C7, R8, Viper, 911 and so on. As in, this GT350 will be a Pro option, one that every GT can aim to be. The sky is the limit without class competition and rule books.... So goes the MSRP as did with the z28.

It's the perfect spot for said level Mustang. The OEM versions will be just dumbed down versions of the real thing for homologation. That's all the '69-'70 and '12-'13 were... That's why they kicked ass. The z28 came first, then the z28.R... :(

 

[w3rkn]

They had several Z/28s at the Detroit Grand Prix, at least 5~6. Including the Pace Cars..


I don't know what they did to the pace car, but it was dialed in... it got a lot of use and I was at advantage points to watch it handle off-camber stuff, etc. I'm just wondering how "stock" it was.. I was up next to it, even locked inside, light-bar in window, etc. But never saw under the hood, or trunk.

But the car is HUGE..

 

[Stuntman]

U look at the Z28s that were racing?

 

[w3rkn]

U look at the Z28s that were racing?

Yeah..

I was even offered to sit in one, in the paddocks because I was hawking it so much. I declined, because I was more interested in looking threw the wheel wells at the suspension, etc.

There were also 2 Pace cars, that I walked around & poked my head in.

 

[PowerUp]

Time for a slightly clean sheet Alpha platform. There are some disadvantages when using a loaner platform though. The Mustang is just set to be a better car...

You don't mind if I share this, again, here, do you? In response to this tidbit of information (with regard to "manufacturer misdirection"):

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php/rumor-steeda-blog-1979.html

R&T are reporting similar porcine figures, today.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/...ill-be-heavier

Maybe NOW the realization will FINALLY dawn that the S550 IS the raw material for a Lincoln Sports Sedan that MUST meet the structural capabilities of the other Entry Level Luxury models (Audi-BMW-Cadillac-Lexus-Mercedes et al). It therefore will weigh as much as those cars do. And, with Mustang's pricing strategy, there's not much in the costing formula left to yank out the weight in pedestrian models.

"2-300 lb. less" was the mantra. Apparently, less is MORE.

Now, if Ford intends on having a "GT 350" to compete with an "Alpha-based Z/28", and has to resort to the SAME measures GM used with the Gen-5 Z/28, where would you expect the "GT 350" to come in, weight-wise? And, therefore, PRICE-WISE?! An ATS-sized Camaro with LT1 should weigh about 3,600 or so...S197 BOSS weight. But with MORE hp and considerably MORE torque...

Seems to me Dearborn has a very TALL order ahead.

 

[Colleton]

In case you missed it in that huge Steeda Weight thread...

Based on our experience working with IRS mustangs in the past we estimated what the weight addition will be. In addition current industry trends with new cars show additional weight being added for various new safety and comfort features.

Just someone's WAG, no hard data. ...and now trolls are running with it. Thanks Steeda.

 

[PowerUp]

I don't think you can class R&T as a troll, and their article discounts some of the increase. But NOT all of it.

What seasoning goes best with CROW?

 

[thePill]

They claim the weight gain is from additional support for new roof crush standards. Did anyone see the bare A-Pillar? It's compact... I sure as hell don't see any weight gained in the structure at all, anyone that thinks less metal is heavier is mistaken.

They also seem to think Ford is going to use Carbon Fiber on an OE vehicle... Good luck with that...

It just seems like Steeda is ramping up attention for new S550 parts and Road and Track piggy backed using Steeda's blog and this site's reaction.

I don't see it gaining weight from the structure... They should have looked at the structure before making that comment.

I'm still saying it will be lighter than the '14, model for model.

 

[thePill]

I don't think you can class R&T as a troll, and their article discounts some of the increase. But NOT all of it.

What seasoning goes best with CROW?

If you really believe the '15 Mustang will weigh as much as a 5th Gen, your out of your mind... Out if your desperate mind.

The car is physically smaller, much smaller than a 5th Gen.

I don't think the Alpha z28 will be as loaded with useless equipment like the '14. They will no doubt TRY and follow Ford again, so what ever the GT359 is aimed at. Hopefully competition, an area tge Camaro has grown pitiful in.

The Camaro using a borrowed platform in this day and age is laughable. What cheapskates... It's 2014 guys... time to move up market. Although, I'm betting the Canari (lol auto correct) gets the sh!t end of this Multi-billion dollar loss this year. It will be pushed back and penny pinched by the budget dept. Trust me, the Camari will have some funding cut to compensate for the companies lying and corner cutting.

Not worried about Chevys new SS coupe...

 

[PowerUp]

If you really believe the '15 Mustang will weigh as much as a 5th Gen, your out of your mind... Out if your desperate mind.

The car is physically smaller, much smaller than a 5th Gen.

5th Gen what? The Gen-6 Mustang is "much smaller" than the Gen-5 Mustang? Only in your world, pill. Longer - wider - HEAVIER.

As to your pooh-poohing Camaro's platform share, my friend, you MUST realize by now the same deal happens with the Lincoln-intended Mustang...the REAL REASON the Quarter Horse is morphing into a Clydesdale...

FACT.

Contrary to what Uncle Dave suggested. Perhaps he's using the same cough syrup as your friend Al O....

 

[thePill]

You obviously haven't seen the new car, it's much smaller. It makes the S197 look large and the Camaro looked fat, or at least fatter than it did.

I find it curious the Mustang is based on a car that doesn't exist. Don't try to make yourself feel better about the Camaro's borrowed platform. It's embarrassing I know...

The S550 has no forward torque boxes, no rear kick-up, the A and C pillars have been merged, the firewall is half the size of the S197's, smaller doors, smaller roof, slimmer pillars, less glass... It's smaller but, to the untrained eye, looking at just wheelbase and track, it stayed the same size. Tisk tisk... Spoken like someone that just doesn't know.

Dave himself had 200lbs a goal, I doubt that has changed. They could have reduced the wheelbase if weight was a concern, it obviously wasn't. Track really isn't responsible for weight gains as much as the vehicles actual width (without mirrors).

Sorry, the weight isn't in the structure, suspension, brakes, engine or trans. The only place I can't account for weight is new equipment and interior.

If 3800lbs is heavy, what's that make a 5th Gen?

It makes it a pig, the V6 is the only porker in the lineup that manages to keep it under 3800. I can't even say that is accurate due to weight gains in 2012 that were left unreported.

I'm saying the Mustang lost close to 200lbs, just as Dave stated that was the goal.

 

[PowerUp]

You obviously haven't seen the new car, it's much smaller. It makes the S197 look large and the Camaro looked fat, or at least fatter than it did. It casts a shadow that is in fact larger. The styling makes it look smaller... I saw - sat - fondled it. I did NOT drool over it.

I find it curious the Mustang is based on a car that doesn't exist. Just wait...

The S550 has no forward torque boxes, no rear kick-up, the A and C pillars have been merged, the firewall is half the size of the S197's, smaller doors, smaller roof, slimmer pillars, less glass... It's smaller but, to the untrained eye, looking at just wheelbase and track, it stayed the same size. Tisk tisk... Spoken like someone that just doesn't know. The SHADOW knows...

Dave himself had 200lbs a goal, I doubt that has changed. They could have reduced the wheelbase if weight was a concern, it obviously wasn't. Track really isn't responsible for weight gains as much as the vehicles actual width (without mirrors).

Sorry, the weight isn't in the structure, suspension, brakes, engine or trans. The only place I can't account for weight is new equipment and interior.

Gee, aren't those items part of the vehicle? And the wider body necessitating wider platform...

If 3800lbs is heavy, what's that make a 5th Gen? It's EQUAL! But wait for Alphie...it'll be the size/weight the Mustang SHOULD have been.

I'm saying the Mustang lost close to 200lbs, just as Dave stated that was the goal.

So, for posterity, you, the all-knowing all-seeing Dave's right-hand-man, are saying a Base 2015 Mustang GT will "officially" weigh 3418 lb., Curb, or so?

2014 Mustang GT Curb = 3,618 - 200 lb.

 

[thePill]

That's what I'm hoping for... My 401a Brembo GT didn't even weigh that, it was 3555lbs w/ a 1/4 tank.

I'm hoping a base GT doesn't break 3500.

 

[thePill]

Don't get your hopes up for a lightweight 6th Gen bud. Chances are, it will retain it's wheelbase and track. It has a choice between 109 and 112 which are large WB's. Since the C7 is 3400+lbs, I'm sure a healthy 400-500lbs gap will be revisited. Let's not forget GM's money issues as of late. I'm betting they are not too eager to dump some budget on a low volume car.

The ATS weighs 3400-3500lbs now with a 4 cyl turbo. The sled runners used in the platform are teeny tiny AND, they still use a torque box Unibody and still has a rear kick-up. The pillar design is still old school Unibody too.

I get it, you guys NEED a heavier Mustang... The Camaro is done for otherwise.

Anyway, we can eliminate the IRS for our list of weight gain sources. The 8.8 housing weighs 36lbs and the shafts will be around 30lbs total.

That puts the ILIRS (without brakes) at 56lbs heavier than the solid axle.

Edit: Don't get your hopes up on Carbon Fiber panels on the GT350 either. Think about crash testing and how they fit in. R&T points to crash test standards in one sentence then disregards them when talking about Carbon Fiber. Good job...

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