GT350 vs. Z/28

[thePill]

Oh my bad, this 560hp, 3200lbs monster is obviously slower than the 505hp, 3900lbs z28. No doubt. This would put both the GT3 and GT-R well into Z06 range at a full course Barber. In the 1:35 range...

It's garbage, too many inconsistencies in testing here. Let's ignore the tire pressure changes, the fact that NO Camaro can keep up with a Z06/Z07 where the GT-R can best it on every single track in the world. This is putting an old Z06 close to the upcoming '15 Mustang GTR in that logic.

The Porsche has 220 tread wear rating... No wonder it can't handle with 500ft lbs of torque. Of course, the GT-R was tested in the wet, as well as the 911.

The z28 ran a laughable 1:37.2 but needed to take air out of the tires to get a mediocre time on a shorten track.

Let's not back peddle the issue, it's cheating and withholding critical information.

I want to see one of you admit the z28 can take a Z06/Z07 anywhere... If they can't do that, they can't touch a GT-R OR, in this case, a 560hp, 3200lbs 911.

Sorry, not happening... The z28 would have had a shot at 475/3200 but this?

Anyone convinced so has been eating out of Team Camaro's B-hole so long they don't even know what sh!t looks like.

Bring on the Z06!! Let's see what's up. I have a feeling this issue will come into question. There's nothing grassy about it, Chevy cheats, got caught at Nurburg, Milford... I can't trust a cheater especially when they are so desperate to make a z28.

Is lowering tire pressure on the z28, after the competition did two wet laps justify a good test? Remember the rain at Nurburgring set the z28 back an admitted 7:31 (lie) and now it's speculated to lost 10-13 seconds during that run. Does rain have a greater effect on z28 tires than the GT-R and 911's 220's?

The z28 ran in "dryer" conditions, it ran a 1:37.2. Then they allowed the track to dry some more, take 6 psi from the tires and took a second off their lap.

Only in a fools eyes would that constitute a good test. You bitched about rain at the Ring but when the competition needs to run in the rain, it's "official".

I have a feeling that most of these little variables were unknown to you, they were to me. I wouldn't hold my head high until we see some unbiased testing later this year.

Your free to pat yourself on the back but, I don't think anyone else will, not working the system to look good for a day. Most of you are rushing over here to change the subject.

Tire pressure was altered...

Track was dry, dryer still on the second run

They ran a 1:37.2... Let's leave that out shall we...

If it looks like a duck, I guess it's not a duck then.


Keep cryin', I'll stay tuned for you rebuttals on those topics. Dying to hear how adjusting the tire pressure is cool while others are forced to lap in the 30 degree wet and one on 220 tread wear tires.

I'm not impress... If I could use this car somewhere as intended, I say $80,000 is good. 4000lbs and 112 inch wheel base? I'd probably look elsewhere for something cheaper and smaller.

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[thePill]

Is it possible, that the GT-R was run first, in 30 degree, wet conditions because of the AWD? Was the 911 run second due to the 220 tread wear? According to Road and Track, it was 62 degrees when they tested at Barber... MT says the day started at 31 degrees.

So, Team Camaro waited for ideal track conditions (lame but whatever) just to get a good time? If say so...

After the embarrassing 1:37.28 (almost a second slower than GT-R and 911), they retreated to the pits to take out tire pressure... 6psi per tire...

What are the chances the z28 ran that day with temperatures closer to 60 degrees? It is Alabama...

Answer that honestly... because that's what it looks like to me. I'll check C&D's temps they reported too... It just seems like a lot of handicapping in this test only to make the z28 appear faster...

Of course, Team Camaro would never mislead you knowingly right?

 

[thePill]

No??? We don't want to talk about those variables do we...

Just that the z28 ran a 1:36.1 besting both the GT-R and 911. It was also 30 degrees and wet all day... Except when Road and Track tested their z28. But thy are prohibited from releasing said times... Team Camaro set up another test at Buttonwillow for R&T for some reason.

It's all pretty loose and pretty much what I expected from a cheater. This is why Ford won't acknowledge the Camaro anymore... They lie, cheat and steal and never pay the consequences.

 

[Jim968]

I find it kind of odd that GM wouldnt send the Z/28 to the testers in perfect condition ready for the track as is. So did GM have too much tire pressure in the tire to begin with or did the testers think they knew better and added it only to reduce it later?

It's definitely a little strange...

Not strange at all. Street pressure and track pressure are two very different things.

I would expect that the testers received the car with appropriate pressure for the street, given that street driving was part of the test. On the track pressures will rise anywhere from 6 to 10 lbs, so starting with with an optimal street pressure will result in pressure being way too high on the track.

Normal procedure is to run the car on the track and then come in and bleed the tires down to your target hot pressure. If you don't know the perfect target hot pressure then you bleed them down in increments until you are satisfied.

The only issue here is if they made no attempts to also achieve a good hot pressure with the Nissan and the Porsche. Note that the article doesn't say they didn't adjust pressure on those cars, only that they did on the Z/28.

 

[Stuntman]

Not strange at all. Street pressure and track pressure are two very different things.

I would expect that the testers received the car with appropriate pressure for the street, given that street driving was part of the test. On the track pressures will rise anywhere from 6 to 10 lbs, so starting with with an optimal street pressure will result in pressure being way too high on the track.

Normal procedure is to run the car on the track and then come in and bleed the tires down to your target hot pressure. If you don't know the perfect target hot pressure then you bleed them down in increments until you are satisfied.

The only issue here is if they made no attempts to also achieve a good hot pressure with the Nissan and the Porsche. Note that the article doesn't say they didn't adjust pressure on those cars, only that they did on the Z/28.

I think I read a prior MT article that Randy was driving in and they set the pressures to what was in the door sill -which I found to be ridiculous.

IIRC the R8 had ~37psi front and over 40psi rear COLD. Details like this can make a WORLD of a difference in lap time, balance, and overall performance. Again, what does the results in these articles tell us with so many variables?

 

[Taneras]

The only issue here is if they made no attempts to also achieve a good hot pressure with the Nissan and the Porsche. Note that the article doesn't say they didn't adjust pressure on those cars, only that they did on the Z/28.

Oh boy, keep drinking the Camaro koolaid. If they had adjusted the tire pressure for the GT3 and GTR it would have been mentioned. Unless you're going to suggest that they actually did, but didn't mention it, and also the more correct track tire psi didn't actually improve the GTR and GT3's lap time - because the final comparison times were of the first runs on a more wet track.

 

[Jim968]

Oh my bad, this 560hp, 3200lbs monster is obviously slower than the 505hp, 3900lbs z28. No doubt. This would put both the GT3 and GT-R well into Z06 range at a full course Barber. In the 1:35 range...

The z28 ran a laughable 1:37.2 but needed to take air out of the tires to get a mediocre time on a shorten track.

Why are you still talking about "full course" and "shortened track"?

All the testing was done on the full 2.38 mile course. MT had a typo on their track map. There is no 2.27 configuration at Barber.

 

[Jim968]

I think I read a prior MT article that Randy was driving in and they set the pressures to what was in the door sill -which I found to be ridiculous.

That really would be ridiculous if they weren't planning all along to come in and bleed the pressures down before going back out.

Clearly the same tire pressure procedure should be used on all cars in the test. Randy obviously understands that, and I would certainly hope the MT guys do too.

 

[thePill]

But they don't Jim, they adjusted the tire pressure to get better results.

By the way Jim, according to Motor Trends "official" track map, it indeed was shortened to 2.27miles from 2.38. See, where it says "Track Length: 2.27 miles"

I'm still waiting for a detailed explanation on the end of day ambient temperatures of 62 degrees. Why did the GT-R and 911 have to test in the wet at 30 degrees. Why did the 911 have 220 tread wear tires? Why is the GT-R so slow now? Where's the Z06? What's up with adjusted tire pressure after you failed to beat the competition? Why no GT3 when Autoweek got one? Why does the z28 get two chances to run, in 62 degree weather after adjusting the tire pressure? How's that for grassy knoll?

Sorry fella's I'm not buying a z28 nor am I buying this report. Everyone is free to be gullible, just not thePill and other Mustang fans. Cheaters never win, this is why I give them so much sh!t.

Here is the testing conditions from Road and Tracks Barber test, I'll post the direct link in a minute.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/first-drive-2015-chevrolet-camaro-z-28

I'm glad the z28 got almost perfect conditions to run their lap, before and after the tire pressure change. Booooooooo!!! Hang your heads in shame!!!

 

[thePill]

Road and Track admits a bad lap time out of the z28, they are not permitted to report the time. They said "They left seconds on the track" but this would suggest it was too close to Randy's 1:40 in the Boss. Randy wanted OEM brakes on the Boss 302 and said he left at least a second on the track as well.

People like myself could possibly use R&T's poor lap time against the mighty Randy's say... well, worse than a 1:37. Maybe a 1:38-1:39... Maybe even slower than Randy's Boss time.

Randy wanted to talk about the Boss but they hushed him up on Ignition...

 

[thePill]

Lastly, I'm gonna post a few quotes from the Motor Trend article I find fun and entertaining...

First...

But, of course, I could add that Randy could have run the car that didn't have an A/C compressor and just one speaker -- it's about 50 pounds lighter -- and/or dropped a few more psi out of the rear tires like he wanted

WTF?!?!?!? So we are doing that now? How much more adjusting do you need? Run what cha' brung you morons!!

 

[Jim968]

But they don't Jim, they adjusted the tire pressure to get better results.

By the way Jim, according to Motor Trends "official" track map, it indeed was shortened to 2.27miles from 2.38. See, where it says "Track Length: 2.27 miles"

I don't care want MT's map says. There is no 2.27 mile configuration at Barber. Do you think they cut through the infield or something?

Regarding pressures, if they never put a gauge on the Nissan or the Porsche then the test is BS. I just don't see any evidence of that in the article.

 

[thePill]

I don't care want MT's map says. There is no 2.27 mile configuration at Barber. Do you think they cut through the infield or something?

Regarding pressures, if they never put a gauge on the Nissan or the Porsche then the test is BS. I just don't see any evidence of that in the article.

There is short track version for club events, check Barbers wiki page, it states it in there as well. So, Motor Trends seems to have some discrepancies... Hmmm... Now Motor Trend is reporting false numbers? But lap times should be okay though...

Here is the icing on the cake... Fine engineering indeed...

Going strictly by numbers, it might appear Chevy brought a gun to a bomb fight. What does the Z/28 do in the quarter mile? "Don't know, we never launched it," said Al Oppenheiser, the seventh Camaro chief engineer in GM history

Ah Hahahahahhahahahah!!! Lord!!! If your listen!!! HELP!!!!

Regardless of your intentions, customers will do what they want. They have no clue what this thing will do if it hooks up. Pathetic... That's basic engineering there bud, did you skip the crash test too?

What about a drug test... I want to see those result...

 

[Jim968]

Road and Track admits a bad lap time out of the z28, they are not permitted to report the time.

R&T's lap time is irrelevant as it was turned by a journalist and not a pro driver. Do you think you could hustle the car around the track as fast as Randy Pobst or Andy Pilgrim?

 

[Jim968]

There is short track version for club events, check Barbers wiki page, it states it in there as well.

There are bypasses that divide the track in half. There is nothing that yields a 2.27 mile configuration.

It sounds like you think there's a Pro Course/Club Course situation like Mid Ohio. There isn't.

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