GT vs. EB high performance for city driving

[NoVaGT]

My '19 GT with the A10, PP so running the 3.55 rear, in S/S+ is crazy fun around town, talking 90-95% 45MPH and under type driving. Now with a tune? Holy smokes, I can't imagine wanting much more low end.....

Did the tune boost engine power? Or just the way the trans shifts?

I haven't even looked into a tune yet.

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[shogun32]

the tune (Unleashed) makes a significant change in the temper of power delivery. On the V6 the change is required and a dramatic upgrade. On the V8 it's noticeable and welcome. On the EB it's similarly mandatory. I don't have a Ford Perf Tune to compare against but I expect it's very similar results. The factory original tunes are disappointing really.

 

[Bikeman315]

Did the tune boost engine power? Or just the way the trans shifts?

I haven't even looked into a tune yet.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/levittown-ford-sez-2018-fpp-are-coming.130109/#post-2686358

Ford Performance if your warranty is important to you. Otherwise there are a number of quality tuners you can go to. Head over to a local speed shop and get their take.

 

[NoVaGT]

the tune (Unleashed) makes a significant change in the temper of power delivery. On the V6 the change is required and a dramatic upgrade. On the V8 it's noticeable and welcome. On the EB it's similarly mandatory. I don't have a Ford Perf Tune to compare against but I expect it's very similar results. The factory original tunes are disappointing really.

Do you have the modes on your GT PP1 car? What does a tune do versus putting the car in Track mode?

I've grown a bit skeptical of tunes, they seem to just change the throttle response and not really make any additional power or torque. And I'm not real comfortable with shutting off knock sensors.

 

[kluke15]

Do you have the modes on your GT PP1 car? What does a tune do versus putting the car in Track mode?

I've grown a bit skeptical of tunes, they seem to just change the throttle response and not really make any additional power or torque. And I'm not real comfortable with shutting off knock sensors.

i dont think any of the big name tuners touch the knock sensors. some may make them less sensitive because they are apparently quite sensitive in our cars. from what ive read of the big name guys they are all adding some timing, transmission shift strategies and such but i really dont think you are gonna get into a danger zone for a basic tune. and i believe putting the car in track mode just messes with shift strategies but i dont have modes so i cant really speak to that

 

[NoVaGT]

i dont think any of the big name tuners touch the knock sensors. some may make them less sensitive because they are apparently quite sensitive in our cars. from what ive read of the big name guys they are all adding some timing, transmission shift strategies and such but i really dont think you are gonna get into a danger zone for a basic tune. and i believe putting the car in track mode just messes with shift strategies but i dont have modes so i cant really speak to that

I have a manual. In Track mode it's just a change in throttle response, along with the suspension and steering changes.

So I'll have to call and see what the deal is, what they can do for my car.

 

[shogun32]

Do you have the modes on your GT PP1 car? What does a tune do versus putting the car in Track mode?

no *reputable* tuner screws with engine protection logic. No, I do not have modes on the GT (yet).

A naive tune will just change the inflection points on the throttle position sensor - generally in a manner that causes a sudden increase in throttle at early pedal position. This is basically what you get with factory 'sport' mode. On my EB I need to have the <35% rate smoothed out so it's more of a rheostat and less of a light-switch. But that aside the engine itself pulls strongly to red line and has a hefty punch (holy-sh*t it's on the pipe!) to the power north of 5000rpm and deep into the throttle. What was interesting was that the turbo boost after the tune registered MUCH lower than factory during routine operation. With factory the boost would go to 10-15psi at modest provocation and sit there "pegged". After tune it's down around 7 and only exceeds when deep into the throttle. And yet the engine is more lively and predictable. I suspect there's a lot more timing adjustment going on than just cramming air down the intake.

On the GT the power builds faster than stock and yet the throttle control is smoother and predictable. With the factory tune the engine felt a bit 'lazy' and 'labored' (not as atrocious as the V6) by comparison.

I can't comment WRT A10 shift-points. That's a whole different subject. I consider the factory A10 tuning in sport and track to be abominable so all my cars are stick shift, like God intended. I drove a fully-optioned SS2 Camaro with A10 for a week and it's various tranny modes worked very, very nicely. Ford's trans tuner needs to be replaced.

 

[NoVaGT]

no *reputable* tuner screws with engine protection logic. No, I do not have modes on the GT (yet).

A naive tune will just change the inflection points on the throttle position sensor - generally in a manner that causes a sudden increase in throttle at early pedal position. This is basically what you get with factory 'sport' mode. On my EB I need to have the <35% rate smoothed out so it's more of a rheostat and less of a light-switch. But that aside the engine itself pulls strongly to red line and has a hefty punch (holy-sh*t it's on the pipe!) to the power north of 5000rpm and deep into the throttle. What was interesting was that the turbo boost after the tune registered MUCH lower than factory during routine operation. With factory the boost would go to 10-15psi at modest provocation and sit there "pegged". After tune it's down around 7 and only exceeds when deep into the throttle. And yet the engine is more lively and predictable. I suspect there's a lot more timing adjustment going on than just cramming air down the intake.

On the GT the power builds faster than stock and yet the throttle control is smoother and predictable. With the factory tune the engine felt a bit 'lazy' and 'labored' (not as atrocious as the V6) by comparison.

I just got off the phone with the folks at Lethal Performance. On the GTs the tune adds about 10HP, and that's not enough for me to spend the $$. I am, however, extremely pleased that they were honest about it, and didn't try b.s. me. That's rare.

Evidently on the 18s and 19s you have to do headers/exhaust for a tune to really add HP.

 

[shogun32]

A tune is unlikely to add HP absent serious engine mods. What it will/should do is noticeably improve the character/delivery thereof. I don't consider a 3% change (~10HP) worth any money either. The dollar/HP of a CAI and exhaust is a sick joke. The 80's want their time-machine back. But the aftermarket just loves the legions of people who mindlessly slap those items onto their vehicles.

Now if what you want is more/different noise, then sure, get an exhaust.

 

[NoVaGT]

A tune is unlikely to add HP absent serious engine mods. What it will/should do is noticeably improve the character/delivery thereof. I don't consider a 3% change (~10HP) worth any money either. The dollar/HP of a CAI and exhaust is a sick joke. The 80's want their time-machine back. But the aftermarket just loves the legions of people who mindlessly slap those items onto their vehicles.

Track mode seems fine to me. No complaints at all about the throttle response/delivery of power.

 

[ctandc72]

I just got off the phone with the folks at Lethal Performance. On the GTs the tune adds about 10HP, and that's not enough for me to spend the $$. I am, however, extremely pleased that they were honest about it, and didn't try b.s. me. That's rare.

Evidently on the 18s and 19s you have to do headers/exhaust for a tune to really add HP.

So what about improvement beyond peak HP? I'd love to see a dyno sheet - I want to see if a tune bumps the power below the curve. That's where you'll feel it EVERYDAY you aren't tearing down the 1/4 mile.

 

[rishi_says]

Here's my 2 cents. I live in the Greater Atlanta area in a northern suburb and drive downtown for work every day. Prior to getting my 2019, my 2nd car was a 2014 Audi S4 6MT (they are supercharged v6's with good torque). The 2019 GT I have now is also a 6MT. I've driven the GT to work atleast once each week since i've had it and sitting in the nasty stop and go traffic both on the interstate and side roads for 26 miles each way, I will tell you this the low end torque on the v8 makes it a much easier car to drive and live with in those conditions. When traffic opens the overall power the v8 provides makes it an even better driving experience.

I have never driven an Ecoboost of any sort so cant say how they are in those situations but this is my 2 cents.

 

[w3rkn]

Go test drive a warmed up HPP & drive around in "sport"...

You'll find it a much more effortless driving experience than a coaxing v8.

 

[ctandc72]

Go test drive a warmed up HPP & drive around in "sport"...

You'll find it a much more effortless driving experience than a coaxing v8.

I usually stay out of this argument - cause I really don't care what other people spend their money on. But I could say the same thing. Go drive a stock big block or stroked small block chevy or even a LSx. Apples to oranges. I get it - you prefer turbocharged small displacement engines - that's great. But "coaxing" a Gen 3 Coyote? LMAO. When I state it's a bit "lazy" on the bottom end - I mean OFF idle to say 3K rpm. And that's comparing it to my experience driving tons of larger cubic inch small block GM / Ford engines.

Seriously though - what is "effortless"? Does that take that much effort to push your right foot down? I drive a 6 speed (preference.. I know the new 10 speed auto is faster) and it doesn't take "Effort" to take advantage of the Gen3 Coyote.

So you're saying that comparing a stock '19 GT with 10 speed Auto in Sport Mode to a EB HPP w/ 10 speed and sport mode - the EB takes less effort at low rpms?

Drive what you want. Enjoy it. Mod it. I'm all for it. But comparing the EB and Coyote is literally apples to oranges. It doesn't make any sense.

What about rear gears? Because as I've stated before - that's a big part of what's being discussed although almost no one seems to recognize it, much less acknowledge it. Torque multiplication. Not to mention the 10 speed keeping either engine at it's power peak longer via more gears.

They are two different platforms. Saying one is "better" than the other for whatever reason is absolutely silly - since if it's based on pure HP / torque numbers - stock for stock - of course the Gen 3 Coyote wins. If it's a personal preference issue - then no answer is wrong or right.

I don't get people who dog on other people for having a V6 or EB Mustang instead of a 5.0. I loved my '17 modded 3.7 Mustang. The three reasons that I traded my car in on a '19 GT were simple.

1. The dealer I have dealt with forever, gave me a ridiculously good price with 2020 models hitting the lot
2. They gave me a great price on my trade.
3. I already had a pile of upgrades bought and in the shop ready to bolt onto to the 3.7. They'd been sitting there for months - because I am trying to finish a '95 Bronco project, and next up is my wife's '84 GMC K1500 which will be a frame off. Only so much time to wrench between my real job and my other responsibilities. I felt like I'd be less inclined to throw a ton of mods at the GT....

It's a circular argument that I'll never get. It happened in forums when I road sportbikes for years. "Get a liter bike, you'll regret if you don't" - even though a 600 or even smaller bike was / is ridiculously fast compared to almost anything else on the road..

If it was all about off idle torque - we'd be discussing different platforms / engines.

Bottom line - buy what fits your personal situation and preference. Buy what's going to make you happy. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks - they aren't the one driving it or paying for it.

 

[JohnDoe]

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