GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

You have said this many times. Will you please link a report that shows it?

Hello; Also the report was specifically about VE related incentives and subsidies. Was not about farm subsidies, airline subsidies or oil subsidies.
But like you i also would like to see the evidence and links ought to do. After all he went on strongly demanding links just yesterday.

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[jtmat]

EVs circling the toilet? Not so fast!

EV sales expected to top 1M this year​

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A flurry of recent news stories showing a slipping demand for electric vehicles aren't telling the whole story, says Albert Gore, the son of the former vice president. ​

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“Sales have consistently grown over the year, not just in raw numbers but also as a percent of total new vehicle sales,” ​

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“I don’t want to come across as not taking this seriously. There are serious bumps in the road. Whenever you’re rolling out a new product, there are going to be issues,” he said. ​

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Gore, executive director of the Zero Emission Transportation Association, an EV industry advocacy group, says that narrative is giving the wrong impression about the pace of EV sales, at least through the first three quarters of the year. ​

https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...-sales-to-top-million-first-time/71491102007/

 

[Gregs24]

You point out ONE area where Shellenberger was accused by one source as misquoting. I'm sure there are other debatable topics, and he is an environmental activist, absolutely not a Climatologist, but neither are we. Read the book, not the negative reviews. His point is that in the 'climate (cottage...my insert) industry there is a political agenda that is single focused and generally all pointing towards Man made contributions and therefore so solutions, and this apocalyptic is NOT helping.

I encourage you you dig a bit deeper on Brown, His twitter post (which I hate Twitter) basically said he intentionally altered his research and title so it would be published given the current atmosphere of politics effecting academia. He stood by his research otherwise.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...patrick-brown-climate-wildfires-breakthrough/

In His own words. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-overhyped-climate-change-to-get-published

I pointed to these two examples NOT to be a climate denier, but to point out that there is a real problem in discussing climate, global warming, its causes, and its solutions. It is not healthy or good, and the Media is a huge part of the problem in fostering an almost religious zeal to peoples responses. Science is not a CUDGEL forced on institutions or societies without question.

My point is simply that the single narrative of anthropogenic sources are the sole reason for current climate change IS a hoax, and short sighted, and destructive. To society, to Academia, and to governments. This is why I pointed out Brown and SHellenbergers book which does a very good job at addressing this issue. I will ALSO say that the opposite is true. Those who deny that we have any impact or effect or as some call climate deniers are equally as flawed. We have to look at it all, not ignore what does not fit our narrative.

Yet, this is the current global social climate we are in, everyone is on the edges/fringes and talking in extremes. Looking for evidence that supports their forgone conclusion.

It is SCIENCE that the global temperatures have risen 1 degree Celsius since 1860 (quoted earlier) The PROJECTIONS and models are what is PROJECTING catastrophic disaster. We are fools if we are not willing to look at how absolutely WRONG most of these models have been, and are always shifting.

Then again, thought I am not fatalistic, and am a lifelong conservationist, nature lover, hiker, responsible, and student of geography and history (current and ancient) I am also mindful that at some point in our planets history, the Mediterranean was a lush river valley, the Saharan wasteland was once a lush oasis, Antarctica was not covered in Ice and seems to have been likewise lush. Sea levels rise and fall, the list can go on and on.

That does not mean we say 'to hell with it' but we can not look at or do science with any agenda but the truth and balance. I do not feel this is happening. The Earth is NOT static, coastlines change dramatically, lush lands turn to deserts, great inland seas drain to the ocean and create grand canyons. My point is that the earth and WE are subject to forces far beyond our control and we must keep this in focus.

I must ask though, why you react so negatively to ANY questioning of the current climate narrative? It appears to me, that you are perhaps a bit of a zealot in your outlooks, and look to poke fights and have arguments, engage in hyperbole and ad hominin attacks, ignore valid points, cherry pick errors.

I said you acted like a Troll, because in the few pages I have looked at your posts, this is what I see.

Perhaps we can have a logical discussion/debate. Frankly, I don't come here for social debates, is a car forum, but like any discussion group, topics cary.

Best to you

Actually that 1C has been over the last 40 years because it changed very little between 1860 and 1980. 1C globally over 40 years is very much more significant than over 160 years as your quote suggests.

These are not models they are actual data

Climate Change: Global Temperature | NOAA Climate.gov

Future projections are only as good as the data going into them. They usually cover a range of possibilities based on lots of parameters to give a variety of possibilities. To choose one as wrong and then say it means all modelling is wrong is clearly incorrect. The link above shows how significantly different those projections can be based on what we do with GHG outputs.

The whole point about modelling is you review the data as it comes in to see if the modelling verifies and guess what - it does.

Study Confirms Climate Models are Getting Future Warming Projections Right – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet (nasa.gov)

What’s wrong with these climate models? - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (thebulletin.org)

The great thing about modelling that turns out to be right is it means you actually have a good understanding of what is driving the process.

The results: 10 (out of 17) of the model projections closely matched observations. Moreover, after accounting for differences between modeled and actual changes in atmospheric carbon dioxide and other factors that drive climate, the number increased to 14. The authors found no evidence that the climate models evaluated either systematically overestimated or underestimated warming over the period of their projections

2. How do scientists know that recent climate change is largely caused by human activities? | Royal Society

So your assertion that global warming caused by anthropogenic effects is a hoax (quoted from your post above) is simply not true.

 

[K4fxd]

@jtmat

Still waiting for the paper that shows oil industry subsidies.

 

[jtmat]

@jtmat

Still waiting for the paper that shows oil industry subsidies.

Go to https://google.com and search "oil industry subsidies". Some of the links we can't discuss like the executive order, Senate, etc.

Run through those first page links and let me know what you think. Please provide a detailed analysis of your thoughts vs. your normal one-line BS posts.

This will be a good start. I'll return by the weekend to see what you have wrote so you don't have to keep begging to respond by putting "@".

 

[sk47]

Go to https://google.com and search "oil industry subsidies". Some of the links we can't discuss like the executive order, Senate, etc.

Run through those first page links and let me know what you think. Please provide a detailed analysis of your thoughts vs. your normal one-line BS posts.

This will be a good start. I'll return by the weekend to see what you have wrote so you don't have to keep begging to respond by putting "@".

Hello; To K4fxd. Interesting how he phrases this tepid response. He expects us to provide detailed replies and basically tells you to do your own search and research. Tells me he does not have a good answer.
Keep in mind you and I are among those he considers "playthings" he likes to tig and toy with. He demanded we post links about EV subsidies which we have. appears to be just another game being played.
He also threw in some insults on top of failing to provide back up for his stance on oil subsidies.
Regardless there were posts a while back about the oil subsidies or rather a lack of special ones.

 

[K4fxd]

@jtmat

I posted a link to a paper on EV subsidies like you asked, you could have the same courtesy and respect, and post the oil subsidies paper for me.

 

[kz]

Since I am in Europe currently, I get all kinds of fun articles....

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...I2f16zyCo-2rwgTaLWP9VqHoUI-17w5g5ht6HtLXWcm5Q

Bet msn.com won't write about it.

Also, plenty of electric cars in the cities - from tiny chinese ones, through Mach Es to AMG Benz Electric EQS. I was deeply convinced owning EV in the city was impossible after this thread. Like you can't do that otherwise you will die.

EVs are alive and well, they need to be the right ones, not the idiocy of Hummer or F150.

 

[Gregs24]

Since I am in Europe currently, I get all kinds of fun articles....

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/uk-petrol-station-group-eg-buy-tesla-charging-units-2023-11-13/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem: Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1kYFMcJfyqpjI2f16zyCo-2rwgTaLWP9VqHoUI-17w5g5ht6HtLXWcm5Q

Bet msn.com won't write about it.

Also, plenty of electric cars in the cities - from tiny chinese ones, through Mach Es to AMG Benz Electric EQS. I was deeply convinced owning EV in the city was impossible after this thread. Like you can't do that otherwise you will die.

EVs are alive and well, they need to be the right ones, not the idiocy of Hummer or F150.

That is interesting. Issa brothers are no fools and their 'business empire' started with just one petrol station. They are not exempt from criticism for some of their business dealings but one thing they don't do is miss opportunities!

Mohsin and Zuber Issa - Wikipedia

They are simply re-aligning their energy supply business as things change

 

[kz]

Also by the way - at home, local Amazon base has couple of hundred Rivians now. I'll take a pic when I'm back next week.

Literally everyone is pulling back, not just GM !

 

[key01]

Also by the way - at home, local Amazon base has couple of hundred Rivians now. I'll take a pic when I'm back next week.

Literally everyone is pulling back, not just GM !

In my area here NW of Chicago the Amazon delivery vehicles are nearly 100% Rivian vans. They are all made here in central Illinois.

 

[K4fxd]

Also, plenty of electric cars in the cities - from tiny chinese ones, through Mach Es to AMG Benz Electric EQS. I was deeply convinced owning EV in the city was impossible after this thread. Like you can't do that otherwise you will die.

That is anecdotal evidence at best.

Also the UK makes it very difficult to drive an ICE in the city. There will come a tipping point.

 

[kz]

That is anecdotal evidence at best.

Also the UK makes it very difficult to drive an ICE in the city. There will come a tipping point.

Little bit of an issue is that I am not even close to UK right now - just the article I quoted was about UK (since I vaguely remember talks about how terrible infrastructure there is - mostly from people that have never seen UK in their lives).

 

[K4fxd]

Little bit of an issue is that I am not even close to UK right now - just the article I quoted was about UK (since I vaguely remember talks about how terrible infrastructure there is - mostly from people that have never seen UK in their lives).

I've been to London but it was MANY years ago.
I see lots of EV's here too, nothing wrong with it, if people want one I say more power to them. I also see lots of EV's on dealer lots, they are not selling. What that tells me is most of the people who want an EV already have one.

Time will tell.

 

[kz]

I've been to London but it was MANY years ago.
I see lots of EV's here too, nothing wrong with it, if people want one I say more power to them. I also see lots of EV's on dealer lots, they are not selling. What that tells me is most of the people who want an EV already have one.

Time will tell.

Buying brand new F150 Powerboost (LOL) there were far more ICE cars than EV on the lot.....

But anyway - yes - at this point - in US - they do need to come up with a way to convince those that haven't thought about buying one. I strongly considered getting rid of Mustang for model 3 Performance so who knows... Problem is that I won't qualify for federal rebate, otherwise would probably already have it.

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