GM is pulling back on EVs

[K4fxd]

Amazon: They are converting their fleets of delivery vehicles to be all electric. They invested $1 B in Rivian and also committed to buy 100,000 electric vans from Rivian.

Pepsico: Pepsico is also converting their massive fleet of delivery vehicles to electric. They also are the first to receive Tesla’s electric Class 8 semis.

Coca-Cola: Coca-Cola is also shifting their delivery fleets over to all electric. Right now they are using Renault EVs. They are very likely to add other brands down the road.

Where is all this electricity going to come from? The closed coal and natural gas plants? Windmills Solar farms? 100,000's of thousands of acres ruined for one or two cities power needs. Or do we just go without 24 hour power in our homes?

You said governments regulate power prices. Yes they do but unless the power grid is nationalized these companies cannot operate at a loss. Do I see fascism in our future.

We cannot as a Country or world go 100% BEV. there is not enough generating capacity or raw materials to make this happen. Maybe in 100 years it will be feasible. I do believe another technology will overtake batteries for our transportation and other needs.

Hydrogen is a truly renewable fuel. It turns into water after it is used as a fuel, then we can take that water and turn it into hydrogen.

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[AZlb5.0]

When the government starts rationing electricity that’s when it’s going to get real for these fools.

Where is all this electricity going to come from? The closed coal and natural gas plants? Windmills Solar farms? 100,000's of thousands of acres ruined for one or two cities power needs. Or do we just go without 24 hour power in our homes?

You said governments regulate power prices. Yes they do but unless the power grid is nationalized these companies cannot operate at a loss. Do I see fascism in our future.

We cannot as a Country or world go 100% BEV. there is not enough generating capacity or raw materials to make this happen. Maybe in 100 years it will be feasible. I do believe another technology will overtake batteries for our transportation and other needs.

Hydrogen is a truly renewable fuel. It turns into water after it is used as a fuel, then we can take that water and turn it into hydrogen.

You alarmist

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

The link below is all I need to see regarding the experts opinions on such matters; it is conveniently forgotten. Then remember the abominations previously manufactured by Ford, GM and Chrysler. Once China, Europe and California created their so called “green mandates,” GM and others were given their marching orders. So much for car executive “execuspeak.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/19/bush-bails-out-us-automakers-dec-19-2008-1066932

 

[AZlb5.0]

The link below is all I need to see regarding the experts opinions on such matters; it is conveniently forgotten. Then remember the abominations previously manufactured by Ford, GM and Chrysler. Once China, Europe and California created their so called “green mandates,” GM and others were given their marching orders. So much for car executive “execuspeak.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/19/bush-bails-out-us-automakers-dec-19-2008-1066932

Wait so you’re saying that this was planned? No way will I believe that. Whats more eye opening is that you didn’t like the Aztek. I mean now that you think about it, that would be considered cultural appropriation. I’m so glad you saved yourself from that.

 

[K4fxd]

Wait so you’re saying that this was planned?

Of course not......and the cash for clunkers wasn't to get rid of well maintained used cars.

If you don't remember in order to get the 5K or whatever amount it was you had to buy a new car. People who can afford to buy new generally take care of their cars. So for 3 or 4 years there were no decent used cars for reasonable prices.

I'm pretty sure this was the intended result

 

[AZlb5.0]

18 cars

Not quite the big deal you were trying to suggest

You must have missed this one Ford F-150 Recall for Seat Belt-Related Fire Risk (consumerreports.org) fair enough it was only 1.6 million vehicles so could have slipped your notice

Go back to your echo chamber ....

You’re right in one aspect about EVs but….


“The highest number of cars to just combust are Hybrids followed by gas power cars followed by EVs.”

“EV car fires are way more hard to extinguish than ICE cars.”

But I’ve yet to see a gas powered car go up in flames when flooded.

 

[K4fxd]

A friend of mine had a Tesla go into BBQ mode and burned down his house.

 

[martinjlm]

Did you see what stellantis said about batteries?

Yes. I see most of what everybody says about batteries. It’s my job. At the same time that Stellantis says this, they are entering into agreements with battery suppliers to begin making their own EVs. Rather than staking a position here (there are reasons I cannot do that) I’ll just point out a couple things.

• In the US, Stellantis trails GM and Ford in terms of electric vehicle development
• Among the US based manufacturers, Stellantis has the lowest corporate average fuel economy
• It would work better for Stellantis than for Ford, GM, Honda, Volkswagen and Hyundai if the growth of EV sales slowed enough to allow them to catch up

All these mandates do is cost us money. Why should my tax dollars help you buy a car? or anything for that matter.

I think you are confusing mandates with incentives. The mandates in place in California, NY, et cetera don’t cost tax-payers a penny. The incentives come from the Infrastructure Bill and the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA). The consumer tax incentive in particular comes from the IRA. The IRA also provides taxpayers relief on health care costs, health insurance, and prescription drug purchases, provides incentives for investments made to improve the electrical grid and focuses on reduction of energy costs in general. Both pieces of legislation were passed with support from both sides of the aisle.

Left alone the manufacturers will develop other fuel sources and it won't hit our collective wallets.

The reason these companies follow the Paris accord is because they were hammered with doom and gloom from the schools. I was told NYC would be underwater by 2020. I agree with @Burkey that schools and media should stop with the scare tactics and stick with fact. There would not be this 100 MPH dash over the cliff. We are not in a crisis.

I think that the reason these companies follow the Paris Accord is because they believe the science that is demonstrated to them over the rants of random Joes on the internet, like the guy in the video in post #1 of this thread and several of the members who have posted at various points in this thread. I am not naive enough to think that I know more than the super successful leaders of the multi-billion dollar international conglomerates who’ve seen the data and decided they needed to take a stand. They didn’t all get stupid all at once.

 

[martinjlm]

A friend of mine had a Tesla go into BBQ mode and burned down his house.

I had a Mustang burst into flames while I was driving it. Should Mustangs be banned? I’ve owned additional Mustangs since then, so maybe I don’t learn so fast.

 

[K4fxd]

I had a Mustang burst into flames while I was driving it.

I'll go out on a limb and say you probably had a fuel leak or wires shorted. Gas cars do not just spontaneously combust.

We can go round and round on the climate. Yes I do think it is getting warmer. I do not think it is a problem. The Earth has had several warmer times and colder times than it is now. It is a natural occurrence.

There is no way a gas, at the concentration of .04%, is causing major heat holding. Some, maybe. Water vapor is the number 1 green house gas. Co2 is like trying to contain heat with a chain link fence.

In the Jurassic era there was a water vapor cloud in the stratosphere. This contributed to the warmer temps, not the Co2.

The concrete and buildings in the cities are adding more heat than the Co2 is trapping.

 

[martinjlm]

Where is all this electricity going to come from? The closed coal and natural gas plants? Windmills Solar farms? 100,000's of thousands of acres ruined for one or two cities power needs. Or do we just go without 24 hour power in our homes?

In 2022, electric vehicles consumed <0.02% of all the energy generated in the United States. By 2030, when it is projected that 40% of new car sales in the US will be EV, they would draw somewhere between 7-11% of the energy produced in today’s grid. Keep in mind, the grid in 2030 will have improvements and added capacity beyond today’s grid. In an earlier post I pointed out that there is funding in the Infrastructure Bill to support investment in building up the grid.

You said governments regulate power prices. Yes they do but unless the power grid is nationalized these companies cannot operate at a loss. Do I see fascism in our future.

More accurately I said that utility regulatory commissions that are empowered by state governments regulate prices. Your idea that this will be nationalized is an unfounded conspiracy theory. File that under “Given the right conditions, anything can happen”. I mean, whodathunk that armed citizens would storm the US Capital. That one was NOT on my radar screen, and yet…

We cannot as a Country or world go 100% BEV. there is not enough generating capacity or raw materials to make this happen. Maybe in 100 years it will be feasible. I do believe another technology will overtake batteries for our transportation and other needs.

I sorta agree with you but not for the reasons you state. There are still some use cases that ICE handles better than EV. Towing and hauling. People who live in multi-family accommodations (condos, hi-rise apartments) that don’t have access to dedicated parking for the purpose of charging. This is why I maintain that there will be ICE vehicles available long after I and most of us are no longer breathing. There will simply be a lot fewer choices.

Hydrogen is a truly renewable fuel. It turns into water after it is used as a fuel, then we can take that water and turn it into hydrogen.

Agreed. But if EVs have an infrastructure problem, Hydrogen says “hold my beer”. It is difficult and expensive to reformulate hydrogen. It is difficult and expensive to transport hydrogen. It is difficult and expensive to store hydrogen. Other than that it’s all good. I often say that hydrogen is the diesel of electrification. Hydrogen Fuel Cell powered vehicles are less sensitive to vehicle speed or vehicle load (towing / hauling) than electric vehicles, just like diesel is less sensitive to those things than gasoline. Once the infrastructure issues are settled I would expect to see Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEV) play a big role in commercial vehicle usage. It could also be part of the solution for people that don’t have a place to charge vehicles.

 

[AZlb5.0]

I'll go out on a limb and say you probably had a fuel leak or wires shorted. Gas cars do not just spontaneously combust.

We can go round and round on the climate. Yes I do think it is getting warmer. I do not think it is a problem. The Earth has had several warmer times and colder times than it is now. It is a natural occurrence.

There is no way a gas, at the concentration of .04%, is causing major heat holding. Some, maybe. Water vapor is the number 1 green house gas. Co2 is like trying to contain heat with a chain link fence.

In the Jurassic era there was a water vapor cloud in the stratosphere. This contributed to the warmer temps, not the Co2.

The concrete and buildings in the cities are adding more heat than the Co2 is trapping.

Oh there you went and did it again. Water vapor holding more heat the co2. And that that during the Jurassic period (some of the hottest global temp recorded) earth had a more diverse animal plant and sea life than now. Those damn pesky facts. Oh and before I forget those volcanos spewing way more pollution into the atmosphere at the time then anything since. We need to get our government to ban volcanoes.

 

[K4fxd]

Your idea that this will be nationalized is an unfounded conspiracy theory.

I never said it was going to happen I said in order for the utilities to operate at a loss it is the only way. So either it gets nationalized or rates go up.

Keep in mind, the grid in 2030 will have improvements and added capacity beyond today’s grid.

Right now we are reducing generating capacity. Maybe some day in the future that will change. It won't be windmills and solar panels unless we want to lose our forests and farm lands.

Infrastructure Bill

More of my tax dollars

if EVs have an infrastructure problem, Hydrogen says “hold my beer”

Yep, we are not ready for either.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Fun fact
Water vapor accounts for 60-70% of the greenhouse effect while CO2 accounts for 25% —a notable difference when numbers alone are compared. Most water vapor is also cause by the sun evaporating the oceans so what’s next holding the sun financially accountable for this?

 

[K4fxd]

Water vapor accounts for 60-70% of the greenhouse effect while CO2 accounts for 25%

I don't trust the 25%. Only computer models show this. Nowhere can I find an actual test that shows Co2 doing any heat trapping.

It is just logic. .04% is causing 25% change? I'll buy .04 to 1%.

Someone needs to build a greenhouse in a ware house with stable temps. Add a light bulb and see how long it takes to raise the temp 1 degree. Then add 10% additional Co2 and see if the temp rises faster.

That might not even be a valid test but it is what I just thought of.

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