GM is pulling back on EVs

[AZlb5.0]

On the food subject. How many 10s of billions of dollars have been raised and laundered since live aid to “help out” poor countries and now the powers that be want to cut back on farming because you know muh environment. humans we sure are slow.

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[sk47]

On the food subject. How many 10s of billions of dollars have been raised and laundered since live aid to “help out” poor countries and now the powers that be want to cut back on farming because you know muh environment. humans we sure are slow.

Hello; Looking at things one way they are correct. Human activities do impact the environment. Always have. Back when populations were smaller the impacts were absorbed. Some historical evidence of early people driving animals over cliffs killing way more food than needed. Setting fires to do something similar. Did not make much difference as there was always some place else to move to. Not so now. Pretty much every inhabitable place has plenty of people.

Now we are losing farm land for many reasons and have ever more mouths to feed.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

Oh boy, where to start?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-204655148.html

“Experts and politicians warned that British rules due to take effect in 2030 are untenable following the European climbdown, which will allow internal combustion engines as long as they burn carbon-neutral petrol alternatives.

The European Union will now ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035 but permit these so-called e-fuels following a backroom compromise forced on it by the German authorities and signed off on Tuesday night.”

”The former Tory leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith said: “‘The 2030 deadline for the elimination of petrol and diesel engine cars in the UK is simply not achievable.’”

“‘The Government needs to listen to the Germans and take advice on this. The more permissive an economy is, and the fewer bans there are, the better to promote growth.’”

“‘And a transition can't be a cliff-edge in 2025 or 2030. It is going to take longer to transition. Not just the technology, but for businesses and the economy to accommodate the abolition of certain technologies.’”

“Greg Smith, a Tory MP who sits on the transport select committee, said: ’Groupthink has dictated battery electric to be the way forward for too long when we're already seeing the technology fail and not develop at the pace people need.’”

"’The 2030 ambition isn't realistic in the first place and we need the innovators and the automotive companies to be given the time and space to produce a time and space and not just jump to the betamax that's available now.’”

“Philip Davies, a member of the Tory net zero scrutiny group, said: ‘It's a devil when you're getting more common sense out of the EU than you are the UK Government. This arbitrary, ridiculous 2030 deadline is idiotic and everybody knows it's idiotic. Nobody seems to be able to say that the emperor's got no clothes on, even though everybody can see it.’”

 

[AZlb5.0]

Oh boy, where to start?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/net-zero-ban-petrol-cars-204655148.html

“Experts and politicians warned that British rules due to take effect in 2030 are untenable following the European climbdown, which will allow internal combustion engines as long as they burn carbon-neutral petrol alternatives.

The European Union will now ban the sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035 but permit these so-called e-fuels following a backroom compromise forced on it by the German authorities and signed off on Tuesday night.”

”The former Tory leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith said: “‘The 2030 deadline for the elimination of petrol and diesel engine cars in the UK is simply not achievable.’”

“‘The Government needs to listen to the Germans and take advice on this. The more permissive an economy is, and the fewer bans there are, the better to promote growth.’”

“‘And a transition can't be a cliff-edge in 2025 or 2030. It is going to take longer to transition. Not just the technology, but for businesses and the economy to accommodate the abolition of certain technologies.’”

“Greg Smith, a Tory MP who sits on the transport select committee, said: ’Groupthink has dictated battery electric to be the way forward for too long when we're already seeing the technology fail and not develop at the pace people need.’”

"’The 2030 ambition isn't realistic in the first place and we need the innovators and the automotive companies to be given the time and space to produce a time and space and not just jump to the betamax that's available now.’”

“Philip Davies, a member of the Tory net zero scrutiny group, said: ‘It's a devil when you're getting more common sense out of the EU than you are the UK Government. This arbitrary, ridiculous 2030 deadline is idiotic and everybody knows it's idiotic. Nobody seems to be able to say that the emperor's got no clothes on, even though everybody can see it.’”

Wait what? So you’re telling me that some feel that it might be a bad idea just to cut the world off from fuel? Who would have ever thought.

 

[Burkey]

Wait what? So you’re telling me that some feel that it might be a bad idea just to cut the world off from fuel? Who would have ever thought.

Except there was never any plan to cut the supply of fuel.
The plan was (is?) to cut the sale of NEW petrol and diesel VEHICLES.
Even the journalist in the article failed to make that abundantly clear in some of his passages as can be seen here:

“Brussels' decision is also likely to raise questions about how enforceable a British ban on petrol and diesel would be if similar rules are not followed in the EU – particularly given the open border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, which could facilitate easy movement of new European vehicles.”

I can see how the casual reader might make the mistake of thinking that the ban was on the fuels rather than the sale of NEW vehicles that consume them. It’s amazing what a journalist can achieve when they omit some key words.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Except there was never any plan to cut the supply of fuel.
The plan was (is?) to cut the sale of NEW petrol and diesel VEHICLES.
Even the journalist in the article failed to make that abundantly clear in some of his passages as can be seen here:

“Brussels' decision is also likely to raise questions about how enforceable a British ban on petrol and diesel would be if similar rules are not followed in the EU – particularly given the open border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, which could facilitate easy movement of new European vehicles.”

I can see how the casual reader might make the mistake of thinking that the ban was on the fuels rather than the sale of NEW vehicles that consume them. It’s amazing what a journalist can achieve when they omit some key words.

I tend to agree that a more gradual transition would be better. But there’s a real fight to just cut everything off.

 

[Burkey]

I tend to agree that a more gradual transition would be better. But there’s a real fight to just cut everything off.

It seems that nearly half of all new sales in the UK are “green” in some form or another. This is people CHOOSING to go that way, not the result of a mandate.

“There are approximately 33 million cars on the road in the UK, based on 2021 data. Of these, roughly 441,000 are electric cars and a further 339,000 are plug-in hybrids. In the first quarter of 2022, the UK registered 252,000 new petrol and diesel cars, 81,000 hybrid cars, 30,000 plug-in hybrid cars and 64,000 pure electric cars. Electric car registrations were up 102% on the previous year while new petrol and diesel car registrations were down 11% and 52% respectively.”

As a side note, a friend of mine just returned from a holiday in Denmark. He was amazed at the number of EV’s and hybrids on the road. It seems that us Aussies are dragging the chain on this one (probably due to our love of massive SUV’s).

 

[AZlb5.0]

It seems that nearly half of all new sales in the UK are “green” in some form or another. This is people CHOOSING to go that way, not the result of a mandate.

“There are approximately 33 million cars on the road in the UK, based on 2021 data. Of these, roughly 441,000 are electric cars and a further 339,000 are plug-in hybrids. In the first quarter of 2022, the UK registered 252,000 new petrol and diesel cars, 81,000 hybrid cars, 30,000 plug-in hybrid cars and 64,000 pure electric cars. Electric car registrations were up 102% on the previous year while new petrol and diesel car registrations were down 11% and 52% respectively.”

As a side note, a friend of mine just returned from a holiday in Denmark. He was amazed at the number of EV’s and hybrids on the road. It seems that us Aussies are dragging the chain on this one (probably due to our love of massive SUV’s).

Don’t forget Americans we love our fast V8s and SUVs also.

Edit: Also from Mexico to South America the sales of EV/Hybrids is only .7% of all car sales.

I think that has to do with the large production of oil in Mexico and El Salvador and other smaller productions through Latin America.

 

[K4fxd]

I think that has to do with the large production of oil in Mexico and El Salvador and other smaller productions through Latin America.

It's because of the distances between cities. The entire UK is the same size as our State of Michigan.

Denmark was brought up. It is 6 times smaller than Michigan.

France will fit into TX with enough room left for Switzerland.

The smaller Countries can make due with EV's. The US cannot at this time.

 

[Gregs24]

New cars sold in EU must be zero-emission from 2035 - BBC News

 

[Gregs24]

I tend to agree that a more gradual transition would be better. But there’s a real fight to just cut everything off.

Where? When? evidence ?

 

[Gregs24]

It seems that nearly half of all new sales in the UK are “green” in some form or another. This is people CHOOSING to go that way, not the result of a mandate.

“There are approximately 33 million cars on the road in the UK, based on 2021 data. Of these, roughly 441,000 are electric cars and a further 339,000 are plug-in hybrids. In the first quarter of 2022, the UK registered 252,000 new petrol and diesel cars, 81,000 hybrid cars, 30,000 plug-in hybrid cars and 64,000 pure electric cars. Electric car registrations were up 102% on the previous year while new petrol and diesel car registrations were down 11% and 52% respectively.”

As a side note, a friend of mine just returned from a holiday in Denmark. He was amazed at the number of EV’s and hybrids on the road. It seems that us Aussies are dragging the chain on this one (probably due to our love of massive SUV’s).

There is no real financial incentive to buy an EV/PHEV here and no mandate at the moment either, but sales are rising strongly. People are choosing those cars.

 

[AZlb5.0]

It's because of the distances between cities. The entire UK is the same size as our State of Michigan.

Denmark was brought up. It is 6 times smaller than Michigan.

France will fit into TX with enough room left for Switzerland.

The smaller Countries can make due with EV's. The US cannot at this time.

There won’t be a solution for that any time soon here in the US.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

Also consider travel distances (which has already been mentioned) and the cost of gasoline; sourced from Gasoline prices around the world, 27-Mar-2023 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com :

USA Gasoline prices, 27-Mar-2023

USA Gasoline prices	Litre​	Gallon​
USD	0.987​	3.736​
EUR	0.910​	3.445​

U.S. Gallon

USA Gasoline prices, US Gallon, U.S. Dollar

United Kingdom Gasoline prices, 27-Mar-2023

United Kingdom Gasoline prices	Litre​	Gallon​
GBP	1.464​	5.542​
USD	1.806​	6.836​
EUR	1.666​	6.306​

U.S. Gallon

United Kingdom Gasoline prices, US Gallon, U.S. Dollar

 

[sk47]

New cars sold in EU must be zero-emission from 2035 - BBC News

Where? When? evidence ?

Hello; Not for Gregs as he is hiding from me it seems. For others tho. Gregs is being disingenuous at the very least. Some things will be in play by these artificial deadlines. Some time before car makers will have been forced to a EV only model lineup for some states. Not clear if they will be able to keep making ICE models to sell in the other states. May be that the volume of ICE sales will not support an ICE line for some makers. Gregs and the EV champions understand this.

Gasoline/diesel providers will have to determine if the sales of fuels to remaining ICE owners will be enough to cover the costs of production and refinery. May be they can as amounts will be less so drilling and refinery needs likely will be less. If fuel demand falls too low a few things may happen. One is the cost per gallon/liter could be very high which will be hard to pay for many drivers. Another is the cost of supplying product may not be feasible anymore and the crude will be refined more into plastics and less into fuel.
It might be that existing oil patch infrastructure can creep along for a while and fuel may be reasonable for a time. But no new refineries or other structures likely will be built. Think about it. If the Greenies can make these mandates stick, there is no reason they will not demand much more. We already know they have other things in their sights.
Gregs and the other champions know this also.

What they seem to have overlooked are the essential services that EV's and green energy are far from being able to provide for. I hope someone in power will see the light before things go too far. What will the thousands of electric utility trucks run on during long power outages for example. I get there can be complex new structure built at great expense. But by 2030 or 2035???
The big problem is not a transition from one transportation/energy system to a different transport /energy system. The problems lie in the artificial deadlines. I understand they are in a hurry to in order, from their point of view, save the planet.
Such a transition needs to move at a pace that works far more than by some set dates. Better yet, from my point of view, let the Brits and the Aussies go on ahead with it and let the rest of the world set back and watch. If it works out, we can get on board with confidence.

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