GM is pulling back on EVs

[LSchicago]

They are doing. EV sales are rising globally.

Yes they are, but it will reach a point where growth is very minimal. Lots of new options coming to market, and a lot of people want to try an EV. At least 1 in 5 go back to ICE. Some people will never go EV. A lot in this country actually.

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[LSchicago]

Gas stations have been closing left and right for years. That’s nothing new and a town ban is no big deal. Has nothing to do with EV expansion.

Meanwhile gas stations popping up all over my area. The saturation is getting excessive.

 

[LSchicago]

Got a link ? I posted (post#233) the link to the state of Wyoming pushing that legislation, but can’t find anything regarding Montana taking a similar stand.

I believe I confused that with Wyoming. Although there is some chatter that Montana will be next.

 

[Gregs24]

Yes they are, but it will reach a point where growth is very minimal. Lots of new options coming to market, and a lot of people want to try an EV. At least 1 in 5 go back to ICE. Some people will never go EV. A lot in this country actually.

Well they are personal assumptions of yours.

It certainly hasn't happened in some countries that are MUCH further down the line than the US.

There are alternatives but almost all involve an electrically powered car whether that is PHEV, BEV, FCEV etc. Only hydrogen ICE doesn't, which will probably be the commercial / plant solution doesn't use an electric motor, and even those will probably be hybrids anyway.

 

[Gregs24]

Meanwhile gas stations popping up all over my area. The saturation is getting excessive.

Very much against the trend worldwide and in the US as a whole. Competition will close a few if at saturation point

Margins on fuel sales are too small to sustain them here, it is the shop alongside that supports them.

 

[Gregs24]

I believe I confused that with Wyoming. Although there is some chatter that Montana will be next.

It is just silly politics either way!

 

[LSchicago]

Well they are personal assumptions of yours.

It certainly hasn't happened in some countries that are MUCH further down the line than the US.

There are alternatives but almost all involve an electrically powered car whether that is PHEV, BEV, FCEV etc. Only hydrogen ICE doesn't, which will probably be the commercial / plant solution doesn't use an electric motor, and even those will probably be hybrids anyway.

Well certainly a lot more of the blue half of this country will consider an EV, being that they are mostly in cities. The Red half of the country will likely have less than 10% take rate even after 10 years. The wide spaced country driving is not ideal for them, or their political beliefs. I myself may consider one around 2030. I don't see any desire for one until then. I ordered a 23 Maverick Hybrid as a commuter/parts chaser. That's about as electric as I can stomach now.

 

[LSchicago]

It is just silly politics either way!

Banning ICE or EV's anywhere is silly politics. Let the people decide what is right for them.

 

[kz]

Yes they are, but it will reach a point where growth is very minimal. Lots of new options coming to market, and a lot of people want to try an EV. At least 1 in 5 go back to ICE. Some people will never go EV. A lot in this country actually.

And you based this on what ? Your own point of view ?
I don't see how people could not want to switch to EVs. They're inherently better at what people want out of their vehicle and as they get cheaper with better infrastructure, their market share will naturally grow. Yes - US is little oddball here - large distances, 3rd world infrastructure (because everything has to have immediate ROI so no one wants to invest) and people that never driven an EV and think they're terrible and a threat to their freedom. Ultimately market will show it one way or the other, regardless of how many posts bunch of Mustang enthusiasts (and sk47) produce here.

 

[key01]

It is just silly politics either way!

the combined population of both Wyoming and Montana is like 1.5M. There are more people than that within a 30 mile radius of my house. So how big can the oil industry be? Wyoming said they were protecting jobs. The number one and two employers are the Universities and schools. I couldn’t find any oil jobs in Wyoming on the top ten list. Sounds like political positioning to me. The legislation failed immediately btw.

 

[LSchicago]

And you based this on what ? Your own point of view ?
I don't see how people could not want to switch to EVs. They're inherently better at what people want out of their vehicle and as they get cheaper with better infrastructure, their market share will naturally grow. Yes - US is little oddball here - large distances, 3rd world infrastructure (because everything has to have immediate ROI so no one wants to invest) and people that never driven an EV and think they're terrible and a threat to their freedom. Ultimately market will show it one way or the other, regardless of how many posts bunch of Mustang enthusiasts (and sk47) produce here.

That's based on my research. Most republicans and people living in the country will not buy EV's. I might once the technology/range/convenience increases. But The US will not just jump to 70/80% new EV purchases like Norway in the next decade. That is a fact. I doubt over 40% EV by 2030. That's why California includes PHEV in their after 2035 plans. ICE vehicles will still be sold for those who want them there. They will just come with small plug in batteries. The next 2-3 years will show big EV increases though.

 

[sk47]

Well they are personal assumptions of yours.

It certainly hasn't happened in some countries that are MUCH further down the line than the US.

There are alternatives but almost all involve an electrically powered car whether that is PHEV, BEV, FCEV etc. Only hydrogen ICE doesn't, which will probably be the commercial / plant solution doesn't use an electric motor, and even those will probably be hybrids anyway.

Hello; Interesting the items you do not comment about. The mandates against the sale of ICE effectively forcing the sale of EV's being one. The forcing bit to be more specific. No suprise that EV sales go up with such mandates in place or upcoming.
Tied to that are the incentives using other peoples money to push EV sales. The unfair aspect being the point.

Back in 2001 the early hybrids were around. I looked them over as i was still working and had long commutes. I weighed the situation and bought an ICE compact. Has turned out to be the better deal over time as I had hoped. That was 22 years ago.
For those 22 years hybrids and later EV's had a shot to make it with generous incentives and what merits they possessed. They made a very small dent in the overall in sales even during the early 2000's peroid of ever increasing oil prices.
Even with incentives and high fuel prices the hybrids-EV's were not quite practical enough. I looked at some Toyota Hybrids during those years and could not make the numbers be practical. Then came cheaper oil-fuel times after fracking and other recovery tech. That threw the anti-fossil fuel crowd for a loop. No way an EV or hybrid were to make headway with cheaper fuel around. Not even close.
Enter the big climate scare push. Enter the mandates. Enter a new round of incentives which incidentally spend federal monies we do not have so will add to the debt.

Some number of us see the picture. Did i mention studies such as the Volvo study which indicates an EV must travel around 68,000 miles before its impact starts to break even with an ICE? I posted this a few times and can again. Pretty sure some more miles will need to be added to that number when batteries start to be replaced and/or the chassis is just scrapped.

But carry on. Makes a nice foil for rebuttal

 

[sk47]

And you based this on what ? Your own point of view ?
I don't see how people could not want to switch to EVs. They're inherently better at what people want out of their vehicle and as they get cheaper with better infrastructure, their market share will naturally grow. Yes - US is little oddball here - large distances, 3rd world infrastructure (because everything has to have immediate ROI so no one wants to invest) and people that never driven an EV and think they're terrible and a threat to their freedom. Ultimately market will show it one way or the other, regardless of how many posts bunch of Mustang enthusiasts (and sk47) produce here.

Hello; I have been making the point about cost for some time now, as have others. If the EV's/hybrids were indeed a better deal and or worked better than an ICE many of us would already be buying them. If an EV was cheap enough I could have one to run errands withing a 100 mile trip and have a pickup to be a real vehicle. Thing is they have not been cheap enough to be worth it.
It is a chicken or egg sort of thing concerning infrastructure. Only way the EV makes sense for many is to have charge stations around. I have a house so could charge at home. Many cannot. Not to mention my tax dollars are being spent to build charge station i do not need nor want.
Let the EV's make it on their own merits.

Nice dig at me. I get it. I do not currently own a Mustang so must not be an enthusiast.

 

[Bikeman315]

I am following this thread loosely (too much politics) but I found this to be interesting.

Bottom line.....regardless of what you read, no manufacturer is truly backing away from EV's. Whatever their deficiencies (and, I agree, there are many) this snowball is rolling down hill with nothing standing in its way.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a... -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

 

[Gregs24]

Banning ICE or EV's anywhere is silly politics. Let the people decide what is right for them.

Because we know the contribution ICE cars contribute to global warming. If you 'let people choose' then they will just stick with what they have.

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