George Floyd was acutely intoxicated w/ fentanyl at his death and also tested positive for meth

[Caballus]

This is why there will never be a middle ground. Half the people in this country have no use for criminals, and the other half want to mollycoddle them.

What I have use for is due process afforded, per the 5th and 14th Amendments. When a person is being arrested, they are suspects, not criminals. Suspects are to be handled with appropriate force based on (edit: the threat they do or do not pose). Moreover, their lives are just as valuable as non-suspects. None of us has the right to play God. If that is the starting point, and it is for all Americans, then the middle ground is easy to reach.

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[2018OFPP1?2]

What I have use for is due process afforded, per the 5th and 14th Amendments. When a person is being arrested, they are suspects, not criminals. Suspects are to be handled with appropriate force based on (edit: the threat they do or do not pose). Moreover, their lives are just as valuable as non-suspects. None of us has the right to play God. If that is the starting point, and it is for all Americans, then the middle ground is easy to reach.

Criminals lives are just as valuable as hard working, tax paying, honest people's lives? That's YOUR opinion. My opinion is that the world would be a better place without criminals.

I'm all for due process, but in general we are way too soft on crime, and it's only getting worse.

If America needs to take a stand on anything, it's a zero tolerance policy on crime.

 

[Caballus]

Criminals lives are just as valuable as hard working, tax paying, honest people's lives? That's YOUR opinion. My opinion is that the world would be a better place without criminals.

I'm all for due process, but in general we are way too soft on crime, and it's only getting worse.

If America needs to take a stand on anything, it's a zero tolerance policy on crime.

Good to know.

 

[Carwatcher]

We should just be like the Philippines and kill any accused drug dealer/user on the spot...God some of you are idiots.

 

[Interceptor]

Well after reading all these post I have come to this conclusion.
1. Any crime involving cigarettes is a very serious crime that you could possibly be lead to a non breathing situation in your remaing life on earth. Just ask Floyd and the big man up in New York City.
2. It doesn't matter to LEO what they do, someone has got their back somewhere along the line.
3. Dirty Harry seems ok to me now
4. Keep up the good police training, your combative training is working well for the past 20 years.
5. Nothing to see here, " move on" " no cameras here" " you want what? Get a lawyer it will take years, but this is what happen

 

[cosmo]

Criminals lives are just as valuable as hard working, tax paying, honest people's lives? That's YOUR opinion. My opinion is that the world would be a better place without criminals.

I'm all for due process, but in general we are way too soft on crime, and it's only getting worse.

If America needs to take a stand on anything, it's a zero tolerance policy on crime.

Wow someone hasn't watched a single thing on the protests. Watch that criminal old white dude get shoved? What's your excuse on that? How about the homeless dude shot in the face with the rubber pellet, should he just be glad it wasn't a real bullet?

How about the lady just getting her groceries. What a criminal, she deserved her shot to the face. The cops pulling off masks to pepper spray kneeling people that are simply protesting?

There's obviously a poor relationship between cops and citizens at the moment. Not including looters, which it's pretty easily to tell the difference between actively looting and standing there protesting (or minding your own business now apparently triggers some cops), how do you justify the violence against people protesting? You're missing the entire point of the protests.

 

[Interceptor]

In my opinion, other than all the social issues, and political motives. There is one common core issue, this is not only a black problem, it is also a white brown yellow red problem.

The police are doing what they have been trained to do. They have been trained to be combative and to place fear on anyone their paths cross.

The training manual needs to be ripped up and replaced properly. It's really not the street LEO fault. They have been taught and protected from the top. You can not work for a large police force and not have been taught to be very aggressive and to protect each other's butt.

Why do you think it was against the law to film law enforcement until recently, they still will take your phone now. You can spin it anyways you want.
They need different training

 

[lateinthegame]

Lying? Strong word, particularly since I put no words into your mouth; but to each his own:

"Floyd robbed a store and was vandalizing a car. The store owner called the cops on Floyd. Floyd also had Covid 19 in addition to the health issues, the cigarettes he stole from that store and the various illegal substances in his system."
The above is irrelevant and has no bearing on the comparison of the TX incident to the MN incident, which is the topic.

Someone who is law abiding should have no business encountering cops. Both were suspected of wrong doing. If they pose no threat or stop posing a threat, all LEOs can do is arrest them, even if they catch the person in the act--hence the term suspect.

"People like Floyd" are suspects, regardless to what they served time for in the past. His record has no bearing whatsoever on the circumstances of this incident. "People like Floyd" have the exact same rights as you and me and cannot be used as sacrificial lambs to justify, in any way whatsoever, a violation of the rights of the people of the United States of America.

As for the other incidents referenced, I don't have enough information to consider anyone a dirtbag, LEO or civilian. If I had enough information, calling them dirtbags would do nothing positive for the situation anyway.

What I do have enough information for is to know that there continues to be an issue, real or perceived, that is tearing at the fabric of our nation. Given that, we (Americans) are duty-bound to come together and develop a solution, and then hold our elected officials responsible for implementing it. As long as we point fingers at various factions, we will remain static at best, or more likely regress. So far, the best descriptions of the issue, in my opinion, was that provided by former Secretary Mattis and the currently serving Service Chiefs.

I think someone posted on here that, "they killed an innocent man". He was not innocent. He was a convicted criminal.

https://greatgameindia.com/george-floyd-criminal/

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Wow someone hasn't watched a single thing on the protests. Watch that criminal old white dude get shoved? What's your excuse on that? How about the homeless dude shot in the face with the rubber pellet, should he just be glad it wasn't a real bullet?

How about the lady just getting her groceries. What a criminal, she deserved her shot to the face. The cops pulling off masks to pepper spray kneeling people that are simply protesting?

There's obviously a poor relationship between cops and citizens at the moment. Not including looters, which it's pretty easily to tell the difference between actively looting and standing there protesting (or minding your own business now apparently triggers some cops), how do you justify the violence against people protesting? You're missing the entire point of the protests.

You're an idiot. Show me where I said the protestors are criminals and I'll concede your point. Oh, wait, can't. STFU.

 

[Caballus]

I think someone posted on here that, "they killed an innocent man". He was not innocent. He was a convicted criminal.

https://greatgameindia.com/george-floyd-criminal/

A convicted criminal who has served his time (like Johnny Cash) is not a criminal.

What do his previous convictions have to do with this incident?

What was he not innocent of during the 8 minutes that a knee was on his neck?

If he was guilty of something at that moment, who is responsible for determining guilt or innocence and issuing justice...in the United States of America?

 

[Interceptor]

I read the 911 call, maybe some of you should read the transcript too.

 

[Hack]

What I do have enough information for is to know that there continues to be an issue, real or perceived, that is tearing at the fabric of our nation. Given that, we (Americans) are duty-bound to come together and develop a solution, and then hold our elected officials responsible for implementing it. As long as we point fingers at various factions, we will remain static at best, or more likely regress. So far, the best descriptions of the issue, in my opinion, was that provided by former Secretary Mattis and the currently serving Service Chiefs.

There's definitely an issue. I agree 100% with that. I certainly have the impression that millions of people think that race has something to do with the Floyd situation. And I personally haven't seen any evidence at all of that. I saw an out of control cop and other police that didn't stop him. But I haven't seen the events prior to it. What did Floyd do? I doubt it matters, but in order to draw a conclusion it's important to have all the info. As long as we are making assumptions without evidence, there will be "an issue".

I would go as far to say if "thinking wrong thoughts" changes the importance or severity of a crime, that's a big problem. Unless the person confesses to "thinking improperly", they should never be prosecuted for their thoughts. And we shouldn't have riots or crime based on assumptions.

 

[lateinthegame]

A convicted criminal who has served his time (like Johnny Cash) is not a criminal.

What do his previous convictions have to do with this incident?

What was he not innocent of during the 8 minutes that a knee was on his neck?

If he was guilty of something at that moment, who is responsible for determining guilt or innocence and issuing justice...in the United States of America?

Almost all arrests are people committing a crime, that is why they are arrested. Hence, criminal. Getting off of the charges is something else.

I know, he got away from Meth possession as seen in the video when he dropped the bag behind his back and it sat there for a long time.

 

[Hack]

What I have use for is due process afforded, per the 5th and 14th Amendments. When a person is being arrested, they are suspects, not criminals. Suspects are to be handled with appropriate force based on (edit: the threat they do or do not pose). Moreover, their lives are just as valuable as non-suspects. None of us has the right to play God. If that is the starting point, and it is for all Americans, then the middle ground is easy to reach.

I 100% agree with this, however I would have some exceptions. For instance, someone being stopped for a traffic violation should generally be dealt with differently than someone who is committing armed robbery. Someone who is currently in the process of committing a crime such as robbery should be treated differently than someone who is suspected of a crime but was not caught in the act.

Floyd and one of the police officers both worked as bouncers at the same establishment in the past. So it's possible the cop knew Floyd. And the cop may have known that Floyd committed armed robbery in the past. I don't know what police are trained to do, but if I were in that situation I would want to be extremely cautious.

I still think what the cops did was wrong, but I don't think they were wrong to be worried about Floyd. If you want to rate the degree of danger a suspect presents, Floyd was right up there at the top.

 

[lateinthegame]

I 100% agree with this, however I would have some exceptions. For instance, someone being stopped for a traffic violation should generally be dealt with differently than someone who is committing armed robbery. Someone who is currently in the process of committing a crime such as robbery should be treated differently than someone who is suspected of a crime but was not caught in the act.

Floyd and one of the police officers both worked as bouncers at the same establishment in the past. So it's possible the cop knew Floyd. And the cop may have known that Floyd committed armed robbery in the past. I don't know what police are trained to do, but if I were in that situation I would want to be extremely cautious.

I still think what the cops did was wrong, but I don't think they were wrong to be worried about Floyd. If you want to rate the degree of danger a suspect presents, Floyd was right up there at the top.

I agree also 100%. Floyd's death was unfortunate and maybe could be handled better. But police are trained to handle traffic stops now way back by their car first because of previous interactions. They are trained to handle unarmed men different until they pull something. They are trained to handle armed men a different way. They are also trained how to handle drug users that are high and belligerent and fight the cops which Floyd did. So the cops should just sit their and the criminals beat them up? I think not.

I see complaints on this but no suggestions on how to handle better. Maybe they need to cuff ankles when they fight the cops. That would be a good start. Or, just don't go into bad areas which they already do and have for a long time. That way they would not be accused of anything.

Cops go into areas when they can help, but when the people they are trying to help shoot at them, then they don't help. Just like the looting with Katrina. They helicopters flew in to help people. They shot at the copters so they did not come anymore.

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