Ford speaks

[ay1820]

No real surprises here. Ford is going to have a fight on their hands. But I find this sentence very interesting. I wonder which states prevent Ford from controlling prices beyond MSRP?

Ford (or any product manufacturer, for that matter) is free to "suggest" a retail price (hence the term Manufactures Suggested Retail Price), but retailers (including car dealers) are free to sell for whatever price they desire.

p.s.; Didn't seer that CJ already addressed this until after I posted.

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[Hillsndale]

Seems weird to me that people are eager to give up the ability to choose. Currently you can place an order and get what you want or choose one on the lot. You can shop different dealers if you are hunting for a bargain. The current climate of ADMs won't last forever. I bought new cars this year and in 2020 and paid less than MSRP. Guess what, that all goes away and essentially you have a monopoly within the brand. ALL sales will be at MSRP. You can't choose to buy one off the lot perhaps at a big discount because the dealership needs to move inventory. If your current car is dead or crashed you will have to buy a used car to get by until the new one is built and shipped. Yes there are problems with some (or a lot) of dealer's treatment of customers, and fixed pricing solves ADM, but who says the dealership won't be able to sell you add-ons like extended warranties and window tint?

 

[Rapid Red]

Ford (or any product manufacturer, for that matter) is free to "suggest" a retail price (hence the term Manufactures Suggested Retail Price), but retailers (including car dealers) are free to sell for whatever price they desire.

p.s.; Didn't seer that CJ already addressed this until after I posted.

I will agree with that statement, however. The reality of the dance goes this way.

Cutting to the chase>
1 salesman how much is the 350?
2 when receiving the car, I will pay the full amount.
3 gives me a price, OK order the car
4 provide all the we need to know info to order
5 he says, he will be right back. wants to find out if they can place an order, (it was November)
6 Comes back and tells me they are not scheduled for production at that time.
7 Ok, no matter I want the car, place the order.
8 all right
9 now back approved, hands me the final out-the-door contract and down payment request.
10 pointing out, the only problem is the price on the contract 10-15k higher
12 answer that's to grease the palm, of the dealership. Not exactly in those words, BUT is exactly what it represents.

That's the 12-step version of the scheme. It actually took almost 2 hours to get to the part where I say keep it.


That 12 step fleece, is way different than what this statement represents: V


Manufactures Suggested Retail Price), but retailers (including car dealers) are free to sell for whatever price they desire.

Put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig

 

[KingKona]

One thing it should stop is that dealer gouge, for the pleasure of letting them sell the car to you.

Was ready to pay cash for a 350r, then I got the. It's so special you need to grease my palm another 10k. Laughed in his face and walked, never looking back.

No.

It will just be Ford gouging you, instead of the dealer.

There will be no price negotiation. "Here's the price (sticker), want it?"

The average car price will rise, not fall.

 

[Zooks527]

I agree with all of the "will be nice to custom order a car without the extended warranty push and the rim and tire packages and the extended extended ultra super rare 'just for you' warranty stuff" but at the same time it was nice to go down to a dealership and take one of the cars for a spin that you've never driven before.

This, in spades.

Before buying my GT, I test drove a lot of cars. My wife came on four rides:

1. a BMW M2 ("Too much like your current car."),
2. a Mazda Miata ("Go ahead, but don't expect me to ever get in it.", said after driving next to an 18 wheeler on the highway),
3. a GT500 ("Nice, but I can't see riding in it for more than an hour."), and
4. a GT ("Yeah, this is fun!").

You can't understate the value of test rides.

 

[Mspider]

This, in spades.

Before buying my GT, I test drove a lot of cars. My wife came on four rides:

1. a BMW M2 ("Too much like your current car."),
2. a Mazda Miata ("Go ahead, but don't expect me to ever get in it.", said after driving next to an 18 wheeler on the highway),
3. a GT500 ("Nice, but I can't see riding in it for more than an hour."), and
4. a GT ("Yeah, this is fun!").

You can't understate the value of test rides.

Its actually easier to test drive a car when you are buying directly from the manufacturer without a dealership apparently. I have done it, it is BETTER.

 

[KingKona]

Its actually easier to test drive a car when you are buying directly from the manufacturer without a dealership apparently. I have done it, it is BETTER.

The picture clearly states you take a test-drive by going to the local "store".

How's that any different?

Here's the thing; cars are an emotional purchase. People get swept away by that new car smell, the sea of new cars on the lot, the seeking of the car that's best for you, and getting the best price by shopping around.

That will all be gone. And prices will rise.

 

[Mspider]

The picture clearly states you take a test-drive by going to the local "store".

How's that any different?

Here's the thing; cars are an emotional purchase. People get swept away by that new car smell, the sea of new cars on the lot, the seeking of the car that's best for you, and getting the best price by shopping around.

That will all be gone. And prices will rise.

My point is that we do not need "dealerships"

 

[KingKona]

My point is that we do not need "dealerships"

Yes we do. And it's weird to say that, when you give the example of Tesla, who does have "stores".

If you think it will be "better" to buy a car when there's no price shopping, you're kidding yourself. If you think Ford will be "kind" and not raise their profit margins when there's no dealership network left, you're kidding yourself.

Get a great price on your Tesla? No, you got the price Musk dictated you were going to get.

That's not a free-market situation.

 

[Mspider]

Yes we do. And it's weird to say that, when you give the example of Tesla, who does have "stores".

If you think it will be "better" to buy a car when there's no price shopping, you're kidding yourself. If you think Ford will be "kind" and not raise their profit margins when there's no dealership network left, you're kidding yourself.

Get a great price on your Tesla? No, you got the price Musk dictated you were going to get.

That's not a free-market situation.

At least with standard price you know the deal you are getting. Instead of playing the game of getting the best deal or having to pay a market adjustment. Or trying to order a car and your dealership doesn't have enough allocations. So the guy in Cali gets his car sooner than you because the dealership he ordered through is bigger.

Regardless of what you think online sales/direct to customer will win. Specially considering younger buyers will always prefer this method. The Tesla business model is clearly what more people want. Which is why ford is talking about doing it.

We can disagree to agree. But I will celebrate the demise of privately owned dealerships.

 

[noGreta!]

First you create or worsen a problem. Then you provide YOUR solution to the problem you created and thus gain the control, the power and the monetary benefits a de facto retail monopoly gets you. The people actually cheer for you and defend you online for providing aforementioned solution.

A pro-move.

 

[Bikeman315]

Seems weird to me that people are eager to give up the ability to choose. Currently you can place an order and get what you want or choose one on the lot. You can shop different dealers if you are hunting for a bargain. The current climate of ADMs won't last forever. I bought new cars this year and in 2020 and paid less than MSRP. Guess what, that all goes away and essentially you have a monopoly within the brand. ALL sales will be at MSRP. You can't choose to buy one off the lot perhaps at a big discount because the dealership needs to move inventory. If your current car is dead or crashed you will have to buy a used car to get by until the new one is built and shipped. Yes there are problems with some (or a lot) of dealer's treatment of customers, and fixed pricing solves ADM, but who says the dealership won't be able to sell you add-ons like extended warranties and window tint?

We are all getting our panties in a bunch for absolutely no reason. First off Ford has announced that it is only doing this for EV's. Since all EV's are currently having ADM's added to them, pricing will actually come down if they go with only MSRP. In the future the market will continue to dictate pricing as it has always done. There will always we deals. The will just be handled differently. Yes, getting a new car will take some planning but that's the way it is going to be.

By the way there is no such thing as price fixing. Ever hear of the Robinson Patman Act?
https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance...ice-discrimination-robinson-patman-violations

As far as extras, they will always be available and you can always say no.

 

[Bikeman315]

Yes we do. And it's weird to say that, when you give the example of Tesla, who does have "stores".

If you think it will be "better" to buy a car when there's no price shopping, you're kidding yourself. If you think Ford will be "kind" and not raise their profit margins when there's no dealership network left, you're kidding yourself.

Get a great price on your Tesla? No, you got the price Musk dictated you were going to get.

That's not a free-market situation.

We do not need dealerships, we need showrooms. A place to look, touch and drive. We need service centers to sevice and repair. We do not need the "buying experience" which in 95% of the transactions are worse than a root canal.

And why do you keep saying there will not be price shopping? Of course they will. Manufacturers will fight each other. There will be deals, they just will look different. If you really think that cars will only be sold at MSRP you are sadly mistaken.

And the comment about the free market is totally off base. It is a 100% free market. If you do not want to pay Elon's price go buy something else. That's a free market.

 

[Rapid Red]

No.

It will just be Ford gouging you, instead of the dealer.

There will be no price negotiation. "Here's the price (sticker), want it?"

The average car price will rise, not fall.

NOTHING new there, is case you have never noticed, it happens to EVERYTHING, doughnut

 

[KingKona]

We do not need dealerships, we need showrooms. A place to look, touch and drive. We need service centers to sevice and repair. We do not need the "buying experience" which in 95% of the transactions are worse than a root canal.

And why do you keep saying there will not be price shopping? Of course they will. Manufacturers will fight each other. There will be deals, they just will look different. If you really think that cars will only be sold at MSRP you are sadly mistaken.

And the comment about the free market is totally off base. It is a 100% free market. If you do not want to pay Elon's price go buy something else. That's a free market.

Your personal negative reactions to the purchasing experience don't mean anything is wrong with how vehicles are bought & sold, just that you don't like it. Others like myself have 0 issue with it.

There will no be price shopping on a MUSTANG. Don't be deliberately obtuse, that isn't good for the discussion, nor is it intellectually honest. Ford will set one price, and you will pay it.

Let's say right now that the sticker on a new Mustang has 20% profit in it. Meaning the dealers buy them for 20% less than what's on the sticker. What do you think Ford will do if they ditch dealerships? LOWER the price of their vehicles 20%????

LOL!!! No. That's NOT what's going to happen.

MSRP will stay the same, and you WILL pay that price. No discounts, and Ford makes a ton more money. And that's what this is really about. This is about Ford making more money, and doing it by removing the "middle man" and taking 100% of the profit dollars for themselves.

Ask yourself this; do you want ONE entity deciding the price of a car? Or thousands of different retailors competing to win your business by cutting each other's throats on pricing?

At least with standard price you know the deal you are getting.

Uh, no. The entire point is that with 0 competition (what you call "standard pricing") you have 0 way of telling anything about the deal you're getting. And you will pay more for the car versus in a free market with competition.

Also, this was tried before, and it failed miserably. It's was called Saturn.

Instead of playing the game of getting the best deal or having to pay a market adjustment. Or trying to order a car and your dealership doesn't have enough allocations. So the guy in Cali gets his car sooner than you because the dealership he ordered through is bigger.

As with the poster above, your negative attitude towards buying a car does not mean it's not the best way for the consumer to get their best deal/value. You may not like all of the above, but the point to market competition is that you can compare and contrast prices, and KNOW if you're getting a good deal or not.

Regardless of what you think online sales/direct to customer will win. Specially considering younger buyers will always prefer this method. The Tesla business model is clearly what more people want. Which is why ford is talking about doing it.

Teslas represent about 1% of the vehicles in the US today, and therefore 1% of the purchases. Hardly an example to look at and decide it's the future. And younger people aren't buying Teslas. They're toys being bought by old, wealthy people as 2nd and 3rd cars. They're damn expensive.

Lastly.....Teslas have epic tons of profit in them. HUGE profit. How do you think Musk has made so much money so quickly? By selling at huge profit margins to morons willing to spend the $$.

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