Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[DUNDEM]

Guys, use my dyno as a baseline ONLY. I'm running a unique setup that pretty much nobody else is here, at least not with the FP tune. Recall that I am running a manual trans with 3.73 ring and pinion.

My dyno numbers will be a bit higher than most due to the combination of short gearing AND manual trans. So I'd expect auto's and 3.31 manuals to be slightly lower to the wheels power due to higher gearing.

Gearing absolutely affects power to the wheels. It's a torque multiplier . Power is a ratio of torque and RPM.

By the way, I flashed back to stock just out of sheer morbid curiosity to see how the stock tune felt with the ATM inter cooler and was really surprised at how little fade there was on the top end. Power actually felt flat across most of the range. The ATM FMIC works very well with the stock turbo. It provides cooling roughly on par with the big full sized FMIC's but without the necessary volume and with lower pressure drop. For those still on the fence about the FP Tune who are also running the stock FMIC, first upgrade you FMIC and drive the car for a month. It's pretty good overall and more what I expected it to be from the factory. Then upgrade to the FP tune and it will be really good. Finally after you've hit 36k, assuming the car is still mechanically sound, step up to the Livernois 91 tune.

A lot of the FP guys run Livernoise tunes on their own cars. Really the big difference in tuning is the fact that FP is still limited in what they can do by emissions where Livernoise isn't, so there's some decent gains on the top end which still fades even with the FP tune after about 5800.

Now for context, even though you will loose 50HP on the FP tune from 5800 RPM to 6500 RPM, your still up about an average of 75 hp from the stock tune, so FP was still able to provide some good, solid gains. The only real difference in power curve with Livernois and FP is that Livernois holds torque better, you don't go from a 30 degree drop to 45 degree drop in torque starting at 5800 RPM. So with the Livernois 91 you hold near the peak power all the way out to 6500. Your only down about 10~15 hp from 6100 to 6500 instead of being down 50 HP from 5800 to 6500. BUT, if you have emissions you will need to swap back to stock once a year or once every other year for a couple weeks to get it passed, but it's rather easy to do, 5 minutes so not a big deal.

ATM for the win! Worth the money! I’m runjjng the stock tune in 99 degree weather with night and day difference. Stock IC is immediately heat soaked before shifting in to second. I was on the fence with stock location MAP style or larger ETS style and this made the most senses. Glad I got it! No matter what though you’re not enjoying your car without any IC must have mod.

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[Brian V]

Really we had a whole week of ninety degree weather all summer and it's gone already ..

Maybe I 'll go do some laps it'll be cool but toasty .

 

[Rick B]

I've been running Ford tune for about a year now and lately it feels anemic. Can I just pull the neg terminal for a few minutes to have it reset? I just drove it normally after I installed the tune. No hard pulls etc.
I'm reading how people are doing hard pulls right after installation.
I'm curious now as to how to "break in" my FPC tune. Any advice on that?

 

[apx632]

I've been running Ford tune for about a year now and lately it feels anemic. Can I just pull the neg terminal for a few minutes to have it reset? I just drove it normally after I installed the tune. No hard pulls etc.
I'm reading how people are doing hard pulls right after installation.
I'm curious now as to how to "break in" my FPC tune. Any advice on that?

yeah drive it for a couple hundred miles let the ecu adapt to the new settings.

 

[Berstuck]

It took approximately 75 miles for my oar to move from 0 to -1.00. His issue isn't isn't relearning octane though as he said he's had it tuned for a year. Check your spark plugs maybe??

 

[solodogg]

I've been running Ford tune for about a year now and lately it feels anemic. Can I just pull the neg terminal for a few minutes to have it reset? I just drove it normally after I installed the tune. No hard pulls etc.
I'm reading how people are doing hard pulls right after installation.
I'm curious now as to how to "break in" my FPC tune. Any advice on that?

Get rid of the stock IC, I swear I felt more of a difference with an upgraded unit and the stock tune than I did by adding the tune on top of it. The car fell flat on its face above 5k with the stocker, that disappeared with the Mishimoto.

 

[Rick B]

OK, I understand all your remarks and advice.
My question is this. Can I due a Cpu reset by disconnecting the battery terminal similar to pulling fuse 47 on my 14GT? I know from experience that doing the reset on my GT, that if I drive it aggressively returns it back into the animal I know it to be. My plugs look like new, I replaced them when I installed my my FRPC tune last year, and checked them last month during my oil change. Thanks

 

[TorqueMan]

OK, I understand all your remarks and advice.
My question is this. Can I due a Cpu reset by disconnecting the battery terminal similar to pulling fuse 47 on my 14GT? I know from experience that doing the reset on my GT, that if I drive it aggressively returns it back into the animal I know it to be. My plugs look like new, I replaced them when I installed my my FRPC tune last year, and checked them last month during my oil change. Thanks

As far as I know, there is no reason ever to "reset" the ECU short of clearing a trouble code. The ECU is constantly updating the fuel/timing map based on the tune, fuel octane, engine readings and ambient conditions. All you should have to do after making a change to the engine that affects performance is to drive the car. If you want to speed up the process of the ECU adjusting to a change the advice I've read from different tuners is to take the car out and perform a few hard pulls in 4th from 2500-5000.

If you have been driving the car for a time following an upgrade and you're experiencing degraded performance I don't see how resetting the ECU will help; there is something else going on.

 

[Chef jpd]

I think what you are talking about is a KAM reset. (Keep alive memory)
I do this every few weeks with my Cobb accessport.
It definitely wakes the car up especially after a lot of low speed city driving.

Maybe someone can chime in on how to do a reset without a tuning device?

 

[Rick B]

I think what you are talking about is a KAM reset. (Keep alive memory)
I do this every few weeks with my Cobb accessport.
It definitely wakes the car up especially after a lot of low speed city driving.

Maybe someone can chime in on how to do a reset without a tuning device?

Exactly... What I'm looking for. Looking for KAM reset information.. I don't know why people chime in when they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Juben]

You can take the negative battery terminal off and run a jumper wire from the positive terminal (on the battery) to the negative terminal (off the battery). That's been a common method on Ford's for some time now. I'd suggest putting something, like a paper towel, down to cover the negative post on the battery to ensure that the negative terminal didn't accidentally touch it.

 

[Brian V]

Dang [MENTION=13694]Juben[/MENTION] your on the ball ..................

 

[TorqueMan]

Exactly... What I'm looking for. Looking for KAM reset information.. I don't know why people chime in when they don't know what they are talking about.

"Keep alive memory" is just random access memory (RAM) with an always hot connection to the battery. In some cases, a capacitor is included in the circuit to power the ECU for a certain time period if power from the car's electrical system (battery/alternator) is lost. In those systems you must drain the capacitor to depower the ECU and clear the memory. Some people suggest leaving the headlights or some other power draining accessory on, or cross connecting the battery cables like Juben suggests, to more rapidly drain the capacitor, but this assumes 1) there actually is a capacitor in the circuit, and 2) the capacitor is not protected by a diode to prevent rapid draining due to current draw from another accessory. Putting a capacitor in the circuit which can be defeated by leaving the lights on or cross connecting the battery seems silly to me. The only way to be sure you've drained the capacitor (if one is indeed installed in the circuit) is to follow the manufacturer's maintenance guidance. Anyone know what that is?

That all said, assuming your engine is running properly, I still maintain you are wasting your time; the ECU is constantly overwriting data in its RAM (the RAM that is "kept alive" by the always-hot battery connection) and applying an updated fuel/timing map as driving conditions change. If you've been idling a lot (stop and go traffic) or putt putting around town (the engine is likely getting heatsoaked), the ECU will detune to those conditions to protect the engine. Once you get the thing out on a highway and the engine cools off the ECU will automatically retune to a more agressive fuel/timing map. Long-term saved data is used to generate an "average" for open loop operations (usually during engine warm up); it will not affect engine operation during closed loop ops when the computer is reacting to current conditions. So if the ECU is degrading performance once you're warmed up, erasing the long-term, averaged data will not fix that problem. Again, this assumes the engine is running properly.

If the ONLY way you can restore degraded performance is to drain the KAM circuit, thus deleting data from the RAM, then you have some other problem that needs to be addressed. NO tune should EVER require the owner to clear out saved data for normal operation. You can't apply norms for your home computer and/or smartphone to the ECU in your car. Restarting your home computer and/or smartphone is required at times because one or more applications interfere with each other; one tries to use resources (RAM, CPU/GPU cycles, etc.) another refuses to give up and the processor pukes. The ECU in your car is not running multiple programs; it runs ONE program, and that program is stored in a type of memory that cannot be erased or overwritten without using special tools. If the program becomes corrupted the ECU will simply cease functioning (then you enter limp mode). If data the ECU is using to adjust tuning to current conditions (closed loop ops) becomes corrupted the ECU either goes into limp mode, or it enters open loop operation until it collects enough good data to support a return to closed loop operation; the corrupted data is simply overwritten with new data as you drive the car. Have you ever heard of a car that requires the owner to periodically disconnect the battery? No manufacturer would, or could, sell such a car.

The upshot is if you are seeing a performance increase after clearing the ECU RAM you may be increasing the likelihood of damaging your engine. The ECU retards performance for a reason; it has sensed a condition identified by the program as possibly harmful. You can clear the saved data and restore the default fuel/timing map, but the ECU will simply reacquire and respond to whatever data that caused it to previously retard performance. That time, however, after you clear the saved data and before the ECU acquires new data resulting in degraded performance (while the car is running like a beast again, as you said) you could be running the engine in a regime the ECU, for some reason, has determined to be dangerous.

If you have to wipe ECU RAM to restore normal power you need to figure out why rather than ignoring it. It could be a poorly programmed tune, erroneous data, or it could be an actual issue with the way the engine is running.

 

[TheLion]

"Keep alive memory" is just random access memory (RAM) with an always hot connection to the battery. In some cases, a capacitor is included in the circuit to power the ECU for a certain time period if power from the car's electrical system (battery/alternator) is lost. In those systems you must drain the capacitor to depower the ECU and clear the memory. Some people suggest leaving the headlights or some other power draining accessory on, or cross connecting the battery cables like Juben suggests, to more rapidly drain the capacitor, but this assumes 1) there actually is a capacitor in the circuit, and 2) the capacitor is not protected by a diode to prevent rapid draining due to current draw from another accessory. Putting a capacitor in the circuit which can be defeated by leaving the lights on or cross connecting the battery seems silly to me. The only way to be sure you've drained the capacitor (if one is indeed installed in the circuit) is to follow the manufacturer's maintenance guidance. Anyone know what that is?

That all said, assuming your engine is running properly, I still maintain you are wasting your time; the ECU is constantly overwriting data in its RAM (the RAM that is "kept alive" by the always-hot battery connection) and applying an updated fuel/timing map as driving conditions change. If you've been idling a lot (stop and go traffic) or putt putting around town (the engine is likely getting heatsoaked), the ECU will detune to those conditions to protect the engine. Once you get the thing out on a highway and the engine cools off the ECU will automatically retune to a more agressive fuel/timing map. Long-term saved data is used to generate an "average" for open loop operations (usually during engine warm up); it will not affect engine operation during closed loop ops when the computer is reacting to current conditions. So if the ECU is degrading performance once you're warmed up, erasing the long-term, averaged data will not fix that problem. Again, this assumes the engine is running properly.

If the ONLY way you can restore degraded performance is to drain the KAM circuit, thus deleting data from the RAM, then you have some other problem that needs to be addressed. NO tune should EVER require the owner to clear out saved data for normal operation. You can't apply norms for your home computer and/or smartphone to the ECU in your car. Restarting your home computer and/or smartphone is required at times because one or more applications interfere with each other; one tries to use resources (RAM, CPU/GPU cycles, etc.) another refuses to give up and the processor pukes. The ECU in your car is not running multiple programs; it runs ONE program, and that program is stored in a type of memory that cannot be erased or overwritten without using special tools. If the program becomes corrupted the ECU will simply cease functioning (then you enter limp mode). If data the ECU is using to adjust tuning to current conditions (closed loop ops) becomes corrupted the ECU either goes into limp mode, or it enters open loop operation until it collects enough good data to support a return to closed loop operation; the corrupted data is simply overwritten with new data as you drive the car. Have you ever heard of a car that requires the owner to periodically disconnect the battery? No manufacturer would, or could, sell such a car.

The upshot is if you are seeing a performance increase after clearing the ECU RAM you may be increasing the likelihood of damaging your engine. The ECU retards performance for a reason; it has sensed a condition identified by the program as possibly harmful. You can clear the saved data and restore the default fuel/timing map, but the ECU will simply reacquire and respond to whatever data that caused it to previously retard performance. That time, however, after you clear the saved data and before the ECU acquires new data resulting in degraded performance (while the car is running like a beast again, as you said) you could be running the engine in a regime the ECU, for some reason, has determined to be dangerous.

If you have to wipe ECU RAM to restore normal power you need to figure out why rather than ignoring it. It could be a poorly programmed tune, erroneous data, or it could be an actual issue with the way the engine is running.

Some good advice here. The trend data is used by the ECU to optimize power within safe limits under a given set of conditions. There's a lot of data analysis that goes on throughout the drive cycles.

However, you can update the software all you want, it won't fix a hardware problem, but it may mask it temporarily. Engine tuning extremely important in any modern engines, but especially so in high pressure forced induction engines employing many dynamic technologies to maximize power out of a small displacement engine.

Cooling is highly critical to TDI engines, bar none. In fact, the majority of failures in TDI engines are related to inadequate cooling, especially the dreaded LSPI of death events.

I would highly recomend a good quality inter cooler. If you want a stock location part, you cannot go wrong with the CP-e or Garrett cores. Both have a decent amount of R&D behind them in terms of optamizing flow vs. cooling capacity.

And of course there's the ATM if you want something a little bigger that is more track capable that still flows very well. Any of the 3 I mentioned are a good choice. Also the Mishimoto and MAP stage 1 units should work well too and are pretty popular options.

Fix you hardware first, then you can start looking at the software. I've never noticed my FP tune "degrading" and have run that for almost a year as well, through winter, spring, summer and into the start of this fall.

Some days the car is going to make better power than others, cooler dry days are the best, bar none. Very hot and humid days, 90F+, are the worst, but I wouldn't say the car is "slow" by any means, but it's common for turbo cars to run anywhere from a 1/4 to 1/2 second slower on the quarter mile when we have large temp swings (depending on the car, its cooling setup and the magnitude of the temp swing). Ask anyone who goes to the drag strip. The poorly sized and designed factory inter cooler is one of the primary reasons that two major car review magazines both noticed "ecoboost mustangs getting slower"...it was because the car is overly sensitive to temperature changes due to the poor factory inter cooler. Tuning can only go so far and the FP tune is seriously neutered by the factory inter cooler, any tune is, even the stock tune!

But back to temperature, Turbo cars and even NA cars will definitely run noticeably faster in the evenings than at high noon, so keep that in mind that what your experiencing may be the effects of weather on your inter cooler which is over taxed even with the stock calibration. It also explains why it feels slower over time, the ECU is learning what timing / fueling the engine can safely deliver. Another thing that may affect what you feel is the power band. A slower car may in some cases feel faster than it is. Why? Because of our perception of the power band.

Also A flatter power band with a lower peak to me "feels" a lot faster than a peakier power band that falls off in the top end even if the area under the curve was less total (meaning it's actually a bit slower) than the peakier power band. When you reset the ECU, your limiting peak torque in the low end and mid range, so the torque output on the bottom end / mid range is actually less as the ECU is re-learning the octane, so it's running less timing. However you don't have a torque "drop off" at the top end relative to the mid band, it feels faster than it is. Torque fade at the top of the RPM range is the biggest "fun factor" killer in any engine regardless of weather it actually means a slower car or not. Most people I know, including myself, expect the pull to increase with RPM or at least hold constant throughout the upper range. When we get everything on the bottom end and mid-range, but it peters out at the top, it makes the car feel slower than it might actually be, especially with a large of a torque drop as you get with the FP tune, we go from a 30 degree torque roll off to a 45 degree torque roll off after 5800 RPM....throw in trend data on fueling / timing as well...

If you look at dynos from cars that were very recently tuned and then dynoed, their power bands are flatter than mine in the mid range but hold about the same torque at the top end as mine. Low and Mid is where timing induces the most knock, not the top end, so timing advance is more conservative on the low end and mid range until octane is learned on the FP tune. There is likely many things working in concert here to make your car feel like it's getting slower. Resetting the ECU isn't really fixing the problem, only changing your perception of it's effects on your car.

My recommendation is the following:

1. Inter Cooler (one of the above mentioned types)
2. Check plugs / replace if worn, NGK 6510's or Ford OE's are the best I've found for the FP tune and Livernois tunes, but make sure it's semi-projected like the OE and proper heat range, gap between 0.028" and 0.030"
3. Make sure your diverter valve is holding pressure, small boost leak may not throw a code, but could certainly decrease power output, the turbo may be able to generate enough additional boost to compensate, but that's lost power because the more boost your turbo generates, the higher the back pressure your exhaust sees = higher temps and less power. It's all about EFFICIENCY. DV+ in stock mode is a good reliability upgrade.
4. Make sure your charge pipes are all tight as well, I've had the stock pipes pop off 2x before I replaced them with ATM silicone charge pipes. A lower cost solution would be to just upgrade the clamps on the stock pipes using a Tune+ pipe clamp set (or you can buy them on e-bay as well individually).

 

[TheLion]

[MENTION=25093]TheLion[/MENTION] I appreciate your advice, so let me give you my reasoning for sticking with the FP Tune to see what you think. I will probably be right at about 28k miles by the time the tune is installed on my car. Which has made me consider going with a different tuner. The reasons I have decided to stick with FP for the time being are:

1. I have the 100k mile powertrain warranty that came with my Ford CPO mustang, and I feel (just an opinion, nothing factual to back me up) that I would have a slightly better experience with warranty issues if anything goes wrong after 36k.
2. I don't have an FMIC upgrade yet or any other "real" performance bolt ons (I don't cound my cat-back), which the FP tune is explicitly designed to run fine with. (Yes I know all the benefits, but FMIC is lower on my priority list, to each his own)
3. The FP tune runs around the same, cost wise, as any other tune setup out there and I can always upgrade later if I desire.
4. I believe FP Tune, is probably the safest tune on the market, short of getting a custom one, which likely would have no guarantees behind. I have seen posts of blown engines with custom tunes but haven't seen any with a FP tune, but to be fair I haven't looked that hard.
5. This is basically the first car I've bought myself, by far the fastest car I've owned, and by far the newest car I've owned. It will be the first time I've tuned a car, and have only known one other person that electronically tuned a car and that welt poorly for them (VW GLI if you care). So I feel the FP Tune is my best bet for getting my feet wet in the world of tuning while still putting sufficient patch on my need for a bit more speed.
6. It seems you feel the main thing the FP Tune lacks is the top of the range power. Honestly, I rarely go above 5500 RPMs as it honestly scares me due to the feeling of the power drop and my general consciousness of over stressing the engine. I unfortunately also have not had the chance to take my car to a track as I haven't found a convenient one, and its been a busy summer. So I don't think the RPM deficiencies are something that I will notice for a while. :shrug:



Side note:

[MENTION=25093]TheLion[/MENTION] I must throw a little shade on ya for what I read in a recent prior post by you:

"Gearing absolutely affects power to the wheels. It's a torque multiplier . Power is a ratio of torque and RPM."

You always seem like a very smart guy so I just like teasing you on semantics as I believe you know your technical misrepresentation with this statement, and I will leave it at that..... ;)

Thanks for being a great forum member!

:cheers:

I'm not seeing anything wonky with my statement about gearing. Gearing affects the actual power delivered to the wheels. Power is a factor based on torque and RPM. The trade off is maximum speed.

Lower gearing will apply greater torque at a given RPM, meaning the actual real power going to the wheels is greater at the same RPM even though the torque at the crank is the same, your just sacrificing top speed for increased torque via the gearing.

But I digress...yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the FP tune, especially if your wanting to maintain warranty coverage, it is literally the ONLY option in the world that I"m aware of for ANY manufacturer that allows you to maintain your warranty. I recommended Livernois as they also work with Ford and Ford Performance, all 3 companies are inter twined, but Livernois has a little different focus and no it's not covered under warranty, Ford would never warranty an engine software that isn't emissions legal even if it was safe because they sell street cars. Ford Performance sells plenty of parts and upgrades that are NOT warrantied and NOT emissions legal also, but most of their mustang ecoboost upgrades are centered around street use. However, from a practical standpoint, if you don't have e-check, it primarily comes down to durability / safety / cost / performance.

I'm not aware of any "factory upgrades" from GM, Honda, VW, Dodge, Subaru etc. that are warranty certified, seems to be a Ford only thing...the top end of the FP tune is definitely better than stock, your pushing the power band out another 800 RPM, so instead of the peak of the power band being at 5,000 RPM, it's now way out at 5800 RPM. Their tune combined with a inter cooler is making 50 HP more, but only 25 HP more with the stock inter cooler. If the car came with a properly sized inter cooler from the factory, and upgraded inter cooler would show no power gains, the only reason we see power gains with a FMIC is because it is overly restrictive and is under sized. Why? Because Ford wants to sell GT's and Focus RS's. The Ecoboost Mustang needs to be faster than the Focus St (next tier down), but not as fast as the RS or the GT V8. They did just that, stock it runs about 13.6~13.9 ish on average, weather permitting. RS runs about a 13.3~13.4 and the GT runs about a 12.9~13.1 quarter mile.

From a driving standpoint, you can really only start to feel the power band fade starting at 6,000 RPM, after 6k, it becomes increasingly noticeable the more you rev it out. So it's a big improvement over the factory setup, but it's an 80% solution, not a 100% solution like Livernois. 80% solution is better than the half-a** 50% solution from Ford though...

I would highly recomend an inter cooler to ago along with it. Garrett/Honeywell is the company who designed the turbo for Ford, they make a high efficiency core that's a drop in, so you don't have to remove the AGS, fits right in the stock location. That would be a really good pair for street applications that's warranty friendly.

Honestly, if you don't care about power above 5k, I'd go with an inter cooler over the tune. You will see far more consistency from the car with just an inter cooler upgrade than with the tune and stock inter cooler. Pair them together and you'll be in heaven for a daily driver . The car should easily run mid to high 13's with a inter cooler alone.

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