Ford is spying on you and sharing your personal information [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS]

[Norm Peterson]

You can already get speeding tickets in the mail and you do not need a connected car to get them. They are radar speed traps and there are signs on the roads that have them. I got caught on 95 once in between Baltimore and Washington, DC.

True, but you at least get a specific warning each time you enter such a zone.

It'd be a tortured interpretation of "adequate warning" to expect every driver to find, read, and remember a vague-ish warning buried somewhere in the 500+ pages of Owner Manual content.


Actually, I know I've seen some sort of notice about what the telematics in our 2019 WRX could be transmitting. It's somewhere in the manuals. And even knowing more or less what to look for, I'll be damned if I've been able to find it again . . . and that's when actively search for it. If I do manage to find it any time soon, I'll post it up. Ford's version isn't likely to be much different.


Norm

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[Bikeman315]

It'd be a tortured interpretation of "adequate warning" to expect every driver to find, read, and remember a vague-ish warning buried somewhere in the 500+ pages of Owner Manual content.

Warning about what? I was talking about speeding tickets.

If you want to know about the telemetrics of FordPass Connect read the T&C’s. Don’t want to take the time to read them and then agree with them? That’s on the owner, not Ford.

 

[Matthewstorm]

If you live in California you can opt out of your info being sold. What can you do if you live in another state?

 

[cactus_kid]

I get that, but my point was that if the state wants to own your house, magically it will.

No lie ! just ask the Apache in AZ

 

[cactus_kid]

If you live in California you can opt out of your info being sold. What can you do if you live in another state?

PAy cash for everything. Do not own a phone. Do not use the internet except for web based browsing at a public source where you are not required to log in. IE: Public library

 

[Norm Peterson]

Warning about what? I was talking about speeding tickets.

Warning that your speed and/or other measures of your driving are being recorded for use(s) by others. As far as I know, signs are posted where photo radar and/or photo traffic light setups may be in use. I've even seen "zero tolerance" specifically posted with respect to posted speeds.

If you want to know about the telemetrics of FordPass Connect read the T&C’s. Don’t want to take the time to read them and then agree with them? That’s on the owner, not Ford.

It would be ridiculous to expect any driver to review his car's telematics agreement - buried somewhere in the documentation - every time he was going to go anywhere. Equally silly to expect anybody to actively remember it from one trip to the next if he doesn't review it every time.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

How about getting one by figuring the time berween getting the toll booth ticket and stopping to pay the toll. It's pretty straightforward math, and there's no way you could deny it. Hasn't happened to me yet, but....

The math is straightforward but there's at least the matter of keeping all of the toll machines synchronized every moment of every day.


Norm

 

[Matthewstorm]

PAy cash for everything. Do not own a phone. Do not use the internet except for web based browsing at a public source where you are not required to log in. IE: Public library

Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Bikeman315]

Warning that your speed and/or other measures of your driving are being recorded for use(s) by others. As far as I know, signs are posted where photo radar and/or photo traffic light setups may be in use. I've even seen "zero tolerance" specifically posted with respect to posted speeds.

The car is collecting data whether or not it is being transmitted via FordPassConnect or not. The data is in the car. The issue here is whether or not you give Ford permission to transmit and then use/share it for whatever purposes they deem reasonable.

It would be ridiculous to expect any driver to review his car's telematics agreement - buried somewhere in the documentation - every time he was going to go anywhere. Equally silly to expect anybody to actively remember it from one trip to the next if he doesn't review it every time.

Not the point. Ford (and others) are offering a service. Part of that service is the transmission and sharing of data collected by the cars on board computer. Most people sign off on the agreement without ever looking at what Ford is actually doing. If a person has any concerns they need to read the T&C's. Only need to do it once as it doesn't change.

The bottom line is no one is spying on us. We have to give them permission to access our data.

 

[Bikeman315]

Ain't gonna happen.

When my wife and I visited Alaska we spoke to a number of folks that lived totally off the grid. Virtually no connection to the outside world. It can be done, but you have to be built of a certain stock to do it. It is a very hard life but one that they revel in.

 

[JAJ]

...The bottom line is no one is spying on us. We have to give them permission to access our data...

For most products that track you, the "Terms of Use" define the data relationship between you and the company. For cars, those terms are slowly migrating from options that the owner can choose from to the purchase and sale agreement where, by buying the car, you authorize the data. The option switches from "I don't want to use this feature" to "if you don't want to share your data, don't buy the car". Same data business model as Facebook.

 

[Zoso]

FordPass Connect started in 2018. In Mustangs it started in 2019 but only on the 201A/401A packages (except the Bullitt). In 2020 it became standard on all models.

Thank you for the information. Mines a 2018 , so it looks like I don't need to worry.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The car is collecting data whether or not it is being transmitted via FordPassConnect or not. The data is in the car. The issue here is whether or not you give Ford permission to transmit and then use/share it for whatever purposes they deem reasonable.

That cars collect "black box" data is one thing. Supposedly that data is not retained except in the event of a crash, and only a small amount of data at that.

Not the point. Ford (and others) are offering a service. Part of that service is the transmission and sharing of data collected by the cars on board computer. Most people sign off on the agreement without ever looking at what Ford is actually doing. If a person has any concerns they need to read the T&C's. Only need to do it once as it doesn't change.

Whether it doesn't change or whether it could isn't the point. I imagine there's a line in those T&Cs that allows Ford to change the terms without notice . . .

My point was that you're not getting the same level of warning that you get from signs warning that photo radar may be in operation along some stretch of road.

I'd bet real money that most people don't remember everything they read a day after they read it. Maybe not even later the same day.

The bottom line is no one is spying on us. We have to give them permission to access our data.

Permission that people are giving them as part of their agreement to (from post #1) "collect their Ford points for oil changes or whatever" without any knowledge whatsoever about where else that data could be shared. Sure, you agreed to share your data with Ford, but you didn't agree to where Ford would be able to share it.

It'd be one thing for Ford to use aggregate data for their own use in planning, designing, and engineering future vehicles, but what they're doing goes way beyond that, and the lack of full disclosure on the mfrs' part is disturbing. Yeah, if they're going to share data with insurance companies they should have to be clear about that and live with what that means for them in terms of potentially reduced car sales. They make the choice to share outside their own house, they own the risk.

We're going from "everything is private unless the individual involved opts to share it" toward "everything is subject to being shared - without limit - and the individual involved doesn't even get the choice to opt out". That's just wrong.

See JAJ's post, reprinted below.

For most products that track you, the "Terms of Use" define the data relationship between you and the company. For cars, those terms are slowly migrating from options that the owner can choose from to the purchase and sale agreement where, by buying the car, you authorize the data. The option switches from "I don't want to use this feature" to "if you don't want to share your data, don't buy the car". Same data business model as Facebook.

Norm

 

[wingnutt]

How about getting one by figuring the time berween getting the toll booth ticket and stopping to pay the toll. It's pretty straightforward math, and there's no way you could deny it. Hasn't happened to me yet, but....

they used to do that out in Florida not too long ago, but I haven’t been there in awhile and don’t know if they continued the practice...

 

[cactus_kid]

I'd like to get some input from all the wildlife that biologists have installed tracking tags on. We are but a small minority.

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