For the MT owners: how do you downshift?

[Toofarfromjune]

What? Lol.

I've driven a car around without using the clutch (aside from 1st gear from a stop), it's fun, but not something I would do with a brand new $40k car.

I drove a civic around like that the week before i was schedualed to rip out the engine and replace it with one twice as big.

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[Supa LA]

I've driven a car around without using the clutch (aside from 1st gear from a stop), it's fun, but not something I would do with a brand new $40k car.

I drove a civic around like that the week before i was schedualed to rip out the engine and replace it with one twice as big.

Yes, it sounds like an awful idea. I'm assuming he was being sarcastic.

 

[15wile]

I probably don't know wtf I'm talking about here, but what I've been doing is rev matching "roughly" with a quick throttle blip if I'm dropping the hammer on the highway (6th to 3rd or 6th to 4th) or slowing down from the highway to a regular road (6th to 5th to 4th usually). I'm getting pretty good at matching, at this point, but I watch the tach when I do it and have a mental idea of roughly how many RPMs are needed for which gear changes. More experienced drivers probably do this by sound. No heel-toe. I'm no race car driver and it feels f*cking weird.

Otherwise I just let the clutch out kind of slow and let it slip a bit and drop in (4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd). Usually this is when I'm cornering and need to have power available. The car is usually a bit unmannerly when I do this, but it doesn't really "buck" or anything. Just isn't butter smooth like an auto.

If caught in slow traffic, I try to lug in second gear instead of first. I never downshift into first. But if I come to a complete stop in stop-and-go traffic, I'll start in first and hold it.

If I'm just pulling up to a stoplight or something, I'll leave it in whatever gear I'm in, if it's 4th or lower, and just pop it into neutral when I'm about to lug the motor, for the last little bit. No sense going through all the gears for a stop. I don't do the engine brake downshifting or any of that - just don't like how the car feels when I do that.

Hopefully I'm not doing anything that'll cause premature wear or damage.

 

[Toofarfromjune]

When we were on our way home this weekend we saw a teenager learning to drive stick in front of us. When it opened to two lanes, I was sure to troll the youngin by rev matching every downshift from stop light to the next. "Hey dad what's that guy doing? Can I do that?"

"Maybe next week son..."

 

[mikeyjobu]

I haven't practiced heel-toe downshifting since I gave up my '67 Beetle -- my other car has 156k on the original clutch, and it's about 16 years old. For a laugh, go look at some instructional videos on heel-toe downshifting on YouTube -- almost none of those clowns do it correctly -- even fewer double clutch correctly. "Blipping" the throttle may help, but it isn't really the same as "rev-matching" -- it's an approximation. Yeah, I bet depending on your RPM's and the delta between them, there will be some additional clutch wear, but probably not much...

 

[Carzzi]

What? Lol.

Used to have a '94 5.0 with a "Terminator" clutch. Only thing it conspired to terminate was my knee. So, taught self to shift sans clutch, except to start off. Not an advanced skill if one generally knows how gearboxes work; muscle memory for blips, timing shifts and lever-force application is easily developed. The heavy millstone flywheels these cars have provide a wide berth of forgiveness. Driven that T50 & previous coyote/ MT82 over years without deleterious effects. The S550, if anything, is more satisfying with its revised linkage.

However, the clutch is used most of the time these days, in deference to the car's newness and with gratefulness for its clutch helper spring. Still double-declutching out of habit.

 

[mikeyjobu]

I don't get how people don't rev-match? For example, sometimes I'm on the freeway going 65+ on 6th gear, then I might hit some slight traffic and need to drop to 4th or 5th gear, if you just drop it either gear, without rev-matching, the car is gonna lug and slow you way down until it catches up to the correct RPM's.

No. Just no. You'd have to drop to 3rd in a PP car to get any engine brake effect -- and if you drop to 5th or 4th -- or even 3rd for that matter, and simultaneously get on the throttle as you would to speed up rather than slow down, it's a moot point.

 

[Asharus]

Moot

 

[Socalmustang]

No. Just no. You'd have to drop to 3rd in a PP car to get any engine brake effect -- and if you drop to 5th or 4th -- or even 3rd for that matter, and simultaneously get on the throttle as you would to speed up rather than slow down, it's a mute point.

Haven't done that...I will test that

 

[15wile]

Mine is not a Perf. Pack. car, but the first couple of days, as I got used to driving a manual again, I did this without thinking. Going from 6th to 4th did have a brake effect, and it lurched like nobody's business, too. The transmission did NOT like that.

I could not imagine doing that every day. You'd throw passengers around in the car and I cannot imagine it being good for the long-term health of the transmission. That's when I was reminded of proper rev matching.

I don't do this double clutch business. All I do is hit the clutch, tap the gas a hair until I see the RPMs roughly around where I think they ought to be for the downshift in question (it's just some quick math in my head) and let the clutch out. Usually I'm within a 100-200 RPMs of where I need to be, and it's pretty smooth. I mean, most downshifting I do is when I'm going to gun it on the freeway, anyway. The rest is just for approximating a slow corner on the street or dealing with city traffic, and that I can do with clutch slip.

Every once in awhile I'll f*ck it up and lurch it a bit, but not as bad as if I didn't blip the throttle at all.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I probably don't know wtf I'm talking about here, but what I've been doing is rev matching "roughly" with a quick throttle blip if I'm dropping the hammer on the highway (6th to 3rd or 6th to 4th) or slowing down from the highway to a regular road (6th to 5th to 4th usually). I'm getting pretty good at matching, at this point, but I watch the tach when I do it and have a mental idea of roughly how many RPMs are needed for which gear changes. More experienced drivers probably do this by sound. No heel-toe. I'm no race car driver and it feels f*cking weird.

Use the Force, Luke . . . . not the instruments.

Seriously, rev matching by sound and/or by how much you kicked the gas is something that should come to you with a little practice and ultimately feel just as natural as knowing where to find the gearshift knob or the clutch pedal without looking.

Otherwise I just let the clutch out kind of slow and let it slip a bit and drop in (4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd). Usually this is when I'm cornering and need to have power available. The car is usually a bit unmannerly when I do this, but it doesn't really "buck" or anything. Just isn't butter smooth like an auto.

Precisely why you should be downshifting before entering any corners where experience has taught you that a lower gear will be required coming out of them. Anticipate, and be in, the right gear before the apexes of those corners (classic road-race/manual transmission thinking) rather than grab the lower gear only when you discover somewhere in the middle of that corner that you're a gear or two too high (that's automatic transmission logic and quite possibly of some blame here).

Once the Force is with you on this, shifting mid-corner will become more graceful for those times when your anticipation is a bit 'off' or the situation suddenly changes and a still lower gear becomes more appropriate.


Norm

 

[Charles147]

Videos?

 

[Chameleon]

When we were on our way home this weekend we saw a teenager learning to drive stick in front of us. When it opened to two lanes, I was sure to troll the youngin by rev matching every downshift from stop light to the next. "Hey dad what's that guy doing? Can I do that?"

"Maybe next week son..."

Well done. :lol:

 

[kz]

Videos?

I love this one :

Because heel & toe and because Ayrton.

 

[Charles147]

I love this one :

Because heel & toe and because Ayrton.

Seen it. I should be more specific. I would like to see videos in a 15.

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