Dimensional difference between 2016 Camaro & Mustang

[thePill]

Holy shit Pill. Stop acting like you're a detective and trying to prove something in the court of law. I feel like you come up with a new argument against the Camaro every time a previous argument fizzles out. The Camaro will probably be faster than the Mustang. "But the Mustang is closer to the Golden Ratio!"

No one fucking cares.

The previous argument didn't "fizzle out"...


The GT350 hands the z28 it's a$$ for less $$... argument won...


Things we found out?

The z28 didn't sell very well. It was not IMSA/SCCA/NASA compliant at any level until this year in SCCA GTS. The z28 runs with 280-300 degree oil temps. The Camaro in GTS the z28 replaced had a 110.5 inch wheelbase. Seen a Boss 302S run a z28 to its death. We seen $20,000 discounts at one time. Chevy claimed all the 2014's were sold out day 1 yet there were still some in the big discount. The IMSA z28 had a huge output advantage until just recently. The IMSA Camaro is a Pratt and Miller car. Chevy began testing the Pratt/Miller car a week before Datona. Learned about Motorsport homologation, rules and regulations for many classes. Learned about wheelbases, track widths, wheelbase:track ratios, the Golden Ratio. We learned about a lot of US tracks. Followed 2 full seasons of Racing, Built up a small crowd here on Raceday. Witnessed the GT350RC slaughter everything, including itself. Seen the class fall apart. Seen thePill take down about two or three dozen Camaro lovin' bogies.


Man... we went over a lot... not to mention a lot of my 6th Gen Camaro info was accurate as was my GT350 claims in general (vs. a Cobra) and I think we got the MSRP pretty close. My Camaro MSRP's were good until the 2SS shot through the roof. My Camaro dimensions were nearly perfect and I think we will find out my weights were very close too. Looks like braking performance WILL be an issue as is the cooling situation for the LT1/LT4. We will still see a GT350TP take a z28. My z28 Nurburgring play by play was pretty good, we even projected the top speed at 160.

I don't think most detectives would be as close as me in some of these areas. Sure, not everything was 100% accurate. You also need to give thePill credit for some of the ATS-V exposure. The 122mph Ringer wasn't mine but the Weight Project for both ATS and Camaro. I gave the 200lbs weight reduction figure days before GM, although it still wasn't clear to me what it was exactly. We reported some of the component weight loss areas that they are now confirming. thePill warned of the additional shift in the 1/4.

...I think I am a major contributor, 100% accurate or not... Speculation is like telling the future using any info available... so what... 650,000 views means it mattered to someone... 3500 replies confirm that kinda. As would my popularity across the Internet on Camaro5, Camaro6 and, at one time SVTP and GMI.

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[ZaneWayne]

:lol::clap2:

The previous argument didn't "fizzle out"...


The GT350 hands the z28 it's a$$ for less $$... argument won...


Things we found out?

The z28 didn't sell very well. It was not IMSA/SCCA/NASA compliant at any level until this year in SCCA GTS. The z28 runs with 280-300 degree oil temps. The Camaro in GTS the z28 replaced had a 110.5 inch wheelbase. Seen a Boss 302S run a z28 to its death. We seen $20,000 discounts at one time. Chevy claimed all the 2014's were sold out day 1 yet there were still some in the big discount. The IMSA z28 had a huge output advantage until just recently. The IMSA Camaro is a Pratt and Miller car. Chevy began testing the Pratt/Miller car a week before Datona. Learned about Motorsport homologation, rules and regulations for many classes. Learned about wheelbases, track widths, wheelbase:track ratios, the Golden Ratio. We learned about a lot of US tracks. Followed 2 full seasons of Racing, Built up a small crowd here on Raceday. Witnessed the GT350RC slaughter everything, including itself. Seen the class fall apart. Seen thePill take down about two or three dozen Camaro lovin' bogies.


Man... we went over a lot... not to mention a lot of my 6th Gen Camaro info was accurate as was my GT350 claims in general (vs. a Cobra) and I think we got the MSRP pretty close. My Camaro MSRP's were good until the 2SS shot through the roof. My Camaro dimensions were nearly perfect and I think we will find out my weights were very close too. Looks like braking performance WILL be an issue as is the cooling situation for the LT1/LT4. We will still see a GT350TP take a z28. My z28 Nurburgring play by play was pretty good, we even projected the top speed at 160.

I don't think most detectives would be as close as me in some of these areas. Sure, not everything was 100% accurate. You also need to give thePill credit for some of the ATS-V exposure. The 122mph Ringer wasn't mine but the Weight Project for both ATS and Camaro. I gave the 200lbs weight reduction figure days before GM, although it still wasn't clear to me what it was exactly. We reported some of the component weight loss areas that they are now confirming. thePill warned of the additional shift in the 1/4.

...I think I am a major contributor, 100% accurate or not... Speculation is like telling the future using any info available... so what... 650,000 views means it mattered to someone... 3500 replies confirm that kinda. As would my popularity across the Internet on Camaro5, Camaro6 and, at one time SVTP and GMI.

 

[Wareaglea5]

The previous argument didn't "fizzle out"...


The GT350 hands the z28 it's a$$ for less $$... argument won...


Things we found out?

The z28 didn't sell very well. It was not IMSA/SCCA/NASA compliant at any level until this year in SCCA GTS. The z28 runs with 280-300 degree oil temps. The Camaro in GTS the z28 replaced had a 110.5 inch wheelbase. Seen a Boss 302S run a z28 to its death. We seen $20,000 discounts at one time. Chevy claimed all the 2014's were sold out day 1 yet there were still some in the big discount. The IMSA z28 had a huge output advantage until just recently. The IMSA Camaro is a Pratt and Miller car. Chevy began testing the Pratt/Miller car a week before Datona. Learned about Motorsport homologation, rules and regulations for many classes. Learned about wheelbases, track widths, wheelbase:track ratios, the Golden Ratio. We learned about a lot of US tracks. Followed 2 full seasons of Racing, Built up a small crowd here on Raceday. Witnessed the GT350RC slaughter everything, including itself. Seen the class fall apart. Seen thePill take down about two or three dozen Camaro lovin' bogies.


Man... we went over a lot... not to mention a lot of my 6th Gen Camaro info was accurate as was my GT350 claims in general (vs. a Cobra) and I think we got the MSRP pretty close. My Camaro MSRP's were good until the 2SS shot through the roof. My Camaro dimensions were nearly perfect and I think we will find out my weights were very close too. Looks like braking performance WILL be an issue as is the cooling situation for the LT1/LT4. We will still see a GT350TP take a z28. My z28 Nurburgring play by play was pretty good, we even projected the top speed at 160.

I don't think most detectives would be as close as me in some of these areas. Sure, not everything was 100% accurate. You also need to give thePill credit for some of the ATS-V exposure. The 122mph Ringer wasn't mine but the Weight Project for both ATS and Camaro. I gave the 200lbs weight reduction figure days before GM, although it still wasn't clear to me what it was exactly. We reported some of the component weight loss areas that they are now confirming. thePill warned of the additional shift in the 1/4.

...I think I am a major contributor, 100% accurate or not... Speculation is like telling the future using any info available... so what... 650,000 views means it mattered to someone... 3500 replies confirm that kinda. As would my popularity across the Internet on Camaro5, Camaro6 and, at one time SVTP and GMI.

So basically what you're saying is that you need to hang on to this because the Mustang can win as long as the camaro is restricted by stupid racing rules of crap racing that maybe a few thousand people watch. This is all you have left because the camaro has the better suspension (aluminum) compared to the mustang's cheap heavy stamped steel links, the stronger engine, the better power to weight, the lower center of gravity, the superior roll center, superior aero, and vastly superior transmissions. LMFAO yeah let's talk about cars setup in a way non of us will ever do instead of talking about how they come from the people who designed them. You need to step up to the gt350 to get the aluminum suspension components that come standard on the camaro. For the people who don't understand how Ford and GM work, They both build cheap vehicles to make money, Ford is just a little cheaper and you can see this in any Ford vs GM, Ford has to do this because they chose stupid expensive engines. Go look at the f150 vs Silverado and it's the same story, f150 has cheap stamped steel suspension including control arms vs Silverado cast and forged aluminum and steel. This is just the way it is, they have to save money because of all the extra springs, valves, camshafts, machining, etc on the engines while still having the cheapest entry prices. You can spend more to improve your mustang, but most of you will only care about the way it looks or adding more power to your little engines, and not all the cheap parts you can't see. This is the bottom line of why the camaro will always destroy the Mustang on a race track and always be first in innovation, your weak little engines cost too much. We all know about the ass whooping that's coming, it's about time you let go of this silly wheelbase and scca garbage and accept your car for what it is, 2nd.

 

[ssb]

... the camaro has the better suspension (aluminum) compared to the mustang's cheap heavy stamped steel links, the stronger engine, the better power to weight, the lower center of gravity, the superior roll center, superior aero, and vastly superior transmissions.

Yeah, but it's ugly.

 

[Tony Alonso]

Passionate debate can be done without declaring people or companies as stupid. Further posts of this nature will result in this thread being locked.

 

[ZaneWayne]

Yeah, but it's ugly.

Subjective.

 

[ZaneWayne]

So basically what you're saying is that you need to hang on to this because the Mustang can win as long as the camaro is restricted by stupid racing rules of crap racing that maybe a few thousand people watch. This is all you have left because the camaro has the better suspension (aluminum) compared to the mustang's cheap heavy stamped steel links, the stronger engine, the better power to weight, the lower center of gravity, the superior roll center, superior aero, and vastly superior transmissions. LMFAO yeah let's talk about cars setup in a way non of us will ever do instead of talking about how they come from the people who designed them. You need to step up to the gt350 to get the aluminum suspension components that come standard on the camaro. For the people who don't understand how Ford and GM work, They both build cheap vehicles to make money, Ford is just a little cheaper and you can see this in any Ford vs GM, Ford has to do this because they chose stupid expensive engines. Go look at the f150 vs Silverado and it's the same story, f150 has cheap stamped steel suspension including control arms vs Silverado cast and forged aluminum and steel. This is just the way it is, they have to save money because of all the extra springs, valves, camshafts, machining, etc on the engines while still having the cheapest entry prices. You can spend more to improve your mustang, but most of you will only care about the way it looks or adding more power to your little engines, and not all the cheap parts you can't see. This is the bottom line of why the camaro will always destroy the Mustang on a race track and always be first in innovation, your weak little engines cost too much. We all know about the ass whooping that's coming, it's about time you let go of this silly wheelbase and scca garbage and accept your car for what it is, 2nd.

Woah..........shots fired haha. Settle down there partner haha.

 

[Shawnski]

It's not opinion...

The Mustang and Corvette were designed for an optimal footprint based on the 107.1 and 106.7 inch wheelbases. Both the Mustang and Corvette were engineered with a near optimal track and wheelbase:track ratio.

The Camaro simply strived for the best case scenario. With a 109.3 inch ATS wheelbase, a 63.1 would still be sub-optimal... the 110.7 is just far too big. Many consider 110 inches to be a small Full size platform.

When I used to AutoX (ESP) my 105" w/b Fairmont against 99" fox body Mustangs (same width), I usually came in 2nd to competent drivers. My Fairmont was built using factory HO and aftermarket trimmings in terms of sway bars, camber plates, Tokico struts, chassis bracing, tires etc. and I could never beat a likewise sorted Mustang with a good driver. It was always close, but for that longer w/b in really tight stuff.

Is 3.6" enough to make a transitional difference between the S550 and Gen 6 'maro w/o a likewise increase in width? I don't know, but 6" was a difference in my class.

 

[Stuntman]

Transitional response is pretty important for autocross. For road racing there's a balance between packaging, polar moments of inertia, weight distribution, stability vs nimbleness, etc... Fwiw most LMP1 prototypes have >115" wheelbases, same with Formula 1 cars.

 

[BmacIL]

So basically what you're saying is that you need to hang on to this because the Mustang can win as long as the camaro is restricted by stupid racing rules of crap racing that maybe a few thousand people watch. This is all you have left because the camaro has the better suspension (aluminum) compared to the mustang's cheap heavy stamped steel links, the stronger engine, the better power to weight, the lower center of gravity, the superior roll center, superior aero, and vastly superior transmissions. LMFAO yeah let's talk about cars setup in a way non of us will ever do instead of talking about how they come from the people who designed them. You need to step up to the gt350 to get the aluminum suspension components that come standard on the camaro. For the people who don't understand how Ford and GM work, They both build cheap vehicles to make money, Ford is just a little cheaper and you can see this in any Ford vs GM, Ford has to do this because they chose stupid expensive engines. Go look at the f150 vs Silverado and it's the same story, f150 has cheap stamped steel suspension including control arms vs Silverado cast and forged aluminum and steel. This is just the way it is, they have to save money because of all the extra springs, valves, camshafts, machining, etc on the engines while still having the cheapest entry prices. You can spend more to improve your mustang, but most of you will only care about the way it looks or adding more power to your little engines, and not all the cheap parts you can't see. This is the bottom line of why the camaro will always destroy the Mustang on a race track and always be first in innovation, your weak little engines cost too much. We all know about the ass whooping that's coming, it's about time you let go of this silly wheelbase and scca garbage and accept your car for what it is, 2nd.

You're more than welcome to leave the forum. The S550 represents a lot more value than the Camaro, to me and to many others. You clearly have different things that are important to you. I really don't care that the 6th gen Camaro is probably faster. The S550 is what we wanted, and is bringing people from far outside the typical Mustang base (myself included). I don't think the new Camaro will do that, as it still looks like a cartoon car.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

You're more than welcome to leave the forum. The S550 represents a lot more value than the Camaro, to me and to many others. You clearly have different things that are important to you. I really don't care that the 6th gen Camaro is probably faster. The S550 is what we wanted, and is bringing people from far outside the typical Mustang base (myself included). I don't think the new Camaro will do that, as it still looks like a cartoon car.

Well stated:cheers:. I deleted my comment earlier as I was not going to waste my breath replying to this person.

 

[cosmo]

While his statement was written too much as attacking the pill, he did bring up some valid points. Read some of the pill's statements and switch the bias from ford/mustang to chevy/camaro and I guarantee he'd be called out more.

This board afterall is for discussion of a Mustang Vs X vehicle. We can't just plug our ears and tell them to leave simply because the other vehicle may have superior attributes in some way or another.

 

[ClevelandV8]

Word on the street is the Alpha platform is pretty terrible.

Is this the street you are referring to ?? ...No auto enthusiast would state that the Alpha platform is "pretty terrible".

http://www.sesamestreet.org/

 

[ZaneWayne]

While I do understand that this is a Mustang forum. The vs section is about the only place I hang out. Strictly because I like to talk about which car is better in different areas. Yes I am on multiple forums. There is no one like thePill on any other forum haha. He is one of a kind. I enjoy it, in the most odd way, but at the same time I think I know where he is coming from. I think that he is just doing this to get a the chevy guys in a mood. There is no way he honestly believes what he is saying, or that he calls all these testers (or they call him, whatever). Because if he did, or they actually called him, he would have right on the price or the weight haha. He is just doing this to get the chevy guys pissed. I think he enjoys saying that he is the best place to get Camaro information, because he knows that they get all mad haha.

 

[ZaneWayne]

Is this the street you are referring to ?? ...No auto enthusiast would state that the Alpha platform is "pretty terrible".

http://www.sesamestreet.org/

I think he was joking.

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