Dealer counter attack

[Qwkynuf]

What happens is the dealers use the survey scores as compensation to their employees, which is the dealers decision, no manufacturer suggests they do that, but image your a service advisor and the cashier is rude to your customer, they go home and slam the advisor on the survey, now the advisor loses money out of his pay...is it right, no I do not think it is, but you will find this in almost every dealer, sales and service. BTW, can someone who has not worked in the business explain the whole, no one gets a 10 thing, baffles my mind, I understand there is no such thing as perfection, but why do you equate a top score with perfection? With that logic it is inconceivable to get a 100% on anything graded...10 means in my mind, you were completely satisfied with the experience, and the service met your needs and expectations. Just remember, right wrong or indifferent, you are most likely going to only affect one person, the advisor or the sales person. I can tell you they are NOT anonymous and if you give a really low score for no reason, you my receive some attitude next visit...

I will explain *my* reasoning - but you have to understand that I am an analyst by trade, and almost entirely driven by logic.

When I look at a scale of 1-10 in survey, I understand it to mean that mean that it is not possible to do worse than a "1", and it is not possible to do better than a "10".

Someone who, in your words, "met my needs and expectations", would rate a "5" on a scale of 1 to 10. If they exceeded my needs and expectations - by finding a discount that I wasn't aware of, being particularly knowledgeable about his product, identifying packages which do (or don't) complement one another, or otherwise went above and beyond... or even by being especially friendly/personable/non-pushy/easy to talk to... I could see giving a 6 or higher. But it would take a pretty special case to rate a 10.

By the same token, it would take a pretty special situation for me to rate someone with a 1. One time, years ago, a salesman threw me off of a used car lot, while swearing at me like a fishmongers wife. As I was driving away, he threw his burrito at my car. I would probably give him a 1. Actually, I would give him at least a 2, because he gave me a good laugh and a funny story.

Try looking at it this way - let's say that you manage a group of people who interact with the public on your behalf. You survey your customers about their experiences, but encourage them to only submit perfect scores. When you get your survey results back, you have 100% perfect scores.

So, nothing needs to be fixed, right? There is absolutely no room for improvement in your organization because it is 100% perfect in every way, right? Wow, congratulations.

I guess I have to wonder if they are looking for feedback, or just statistics?

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[joepro]

You need to go work retail where you are graded and scrutinized on these survey systems... just saying, it would change your logic...anyway I will have to agree to disagree...so 50% is a passing grade, because that is your baseline, if you do 50% of anything, you did not pass or complete your task, if you only achieve 50% of your objectives at your job you wont have it long...at least I would not. They have already failed if everyone used your logic the dealer would average what, a 50-60% score? The issue is different people have different rating scale interpretations, just as you and I do.

With that said, the system has become broken, I agree, due to dealers paying their employees from the scores, if your boss told you tomorrow you have to get a x% on your surveys (or equate it to some task relevant to your line of work say you have to have a .05% failure rate on a widget when the industry accepted average is 2%) or you lose a a grand out of your pay, you'll be asking everyone for a 100% on a survey, or doing all you can to achieve the objective regardless if it skews the results, even if it is unattainable or above reasonable expectations.

 

[Renner]

So it's worth 80$ to you (approx cost of changing oil yourself) to worry about a scratch or worse? No thank you.

$80 oil change? :headbonk: you using gold in there?

 

[Qwkynuf]

You need to go work retail where you are graded and scrutinized on these survey systems... just saying, it would change your logic...

No, I don''t. And no, it wouldn't.

My job, like everyone else's, is customer service. If my customer service skills are lacking, if I fail in my problem solving abilities, I am very likely to cost my employer a multi-million dollar customer. They pay me a fair amount of money because I have shown that I am good at what I do. if my employer instituted a survey-based compensation plan, I would quit and go to work for one of our competitors - that day. If our competitors were doing something similar, I would find another line of work.

Unlike many of the people that I run into on a day-to-day basis, I am not willing to work at a job that I hate. I am also not willing to work for a company who is so stupid that they actually believe that the results of a survey whose respondents were browbeaten have any value at all.

anyway I will have to agree to disagree...

Fair enough, but that doesn't make me wrong.

so 50% is a passing grade, because that is your baseline, if you do 50% of anything, you did not pass or complete your task, if you only achieve 50% of your objectives at your job you wont have it long...at least I would not. They have already failed if everyone used your logic the dealer would average what, a 50-60% score? The issue is different people have different rating scale interpretations, just as you and I do.

Apples, meet oranges. This is not about evaluating whether someone completed a task. It is not a 0-100% scale. it is a ranking of how satisfied I am, on a scale ranging from completely unsatisfied to completely satisfied. Based on that, a 5 would indicate that an adequate job was done. A 4 would be somewhat less than adequate, a 6 somewhat better.

So, yes. A 50-60% average would probably be typical, and not necessarily bad. A 70-80% average would be very good. 80-90% would be exceptional. 100% would be bullshit.

With that said, the system has become broken, I agree, due to dealers paying their employees from the scores, if your boss told you tomorrow you have to get a x% on your surveys (or equate it to some task relevant to your line of work say you have to have a .05% failure rate on a widget when the industry accepted average is 2%) or you lose a a grand out of your pay, you'll be asking everyone for a 100% on a survey, or doing all you can to achieve the objective regardless if it skews the results, even if it is unattainable or above reasonable expectations.

I do everything I can today to completely satisfy every customer (internal and external) that I work with. Not because we have a survey, not because my boss tells me I have to, not because my income depends on it. I do it because it is important to me to do my job to the best of my ability. Sometimes, I fail. When I do, I do everything in my ability to fix it.

But that's just me.

 

[cbrookre]

I will explain *my* reasoning - but you have to understand that I am an analyst by trade, and almost entirely driven by logic.

When I look at a scale of 1-10 in survey, I understand it to mean that mean that it is not possible to do worse than a "1", and it is not possible to do better than a "10".

Someone who, in your words, "met my needs and expectations", would rate a "5" on a scale of 1 to 10. If they exceeded my needs and expectations - by finding a discount that I wasn't aware of, being particularly knowledgeable about his product, identifying packages which do (or don't) complement one another, or otherwise went above and beyond... or even by being especially friendly/personable/non-pushy/easy to talk to... I could see giving a 6 or higher. But it would take a pretty special case to rate a 10.

By the same token, it would take a pretty special situation for me to rate someone with a 1. One time, years ago, a salesman threw me off of a used car lot, while swearing at me like a fishmongers wife. As I was driving away, he threw his burrito at my car. I would probably give him a 1. Actually, I would give him at least a 2, because he gave me a good laugh and a funny story.

Try looking at it this way - let's say that you manage a group of people who interact with the public on your behalf. You survey your customers about their experiences, but encourage them to only submit perfect scores. When you get your survey results back, you have 100% perfect scores.

So, nothing needs to be fixed, right? There is absolutely no room for improvement in your organization because it is 100% perfect in every way, right? Wow, congratulations.

I guess I have to wonder if they are looking for feedback, or just statistics?

I can say that I rarely agree with 100% of anything that anyone says, but this is spot on.

 

[joepro]

We can go back and forth but I will cease after I say my peace... In terms of the grading it is an 0-100% scale after it is compiled from the survey, the scores are calculated out as a percentage if you mark 5, that is 50% (there are sub categories each hold different weight), then an acceptable level is set, whether you agree or disagree. The manufacturer I work for is set a 91% overall CSE score, I did not set it, but that is what it is, all my dealers need to meet or exceed it. So what do the dealers do, instead of improving their processes, they take money from their employees if they are below the standard, what behavior do you think that creates? Again you are all entitled to your opinions, but based upon your rating system, the dealer fails even if they did above average by your standards.

I guess my point is this, while you believe in your rating system you are entitled to that, however, dealer employees are victims of circumstance, they cannot change the system or how it is graded, so while you are doing what you think is fair, no matter what you think, hypothetically if you filled out a dealer survey in that manor you just rated the dealer performance poorly. Whether you agree with the system or not(no saying I do either), there is still a living breathing person that may have done everything you asked them to, but would get a low score because of your rating scale.

There is a reason I left retail to work for the manufacturer, it is a horrible way to make a living, be glad you do not have to, but looking back it was great experience and it has made me better person and professional for it. I love my career in the auto industry and would not trade it for anything, regardless of the petty things we run into that are illogical or irrational, they have treated me well, and I am loyal to a fault. If I had to leave because of this survey system, I would have to leave the industry, because every manufacturer does the same thing, it has become a societal norm to survey customers and to maintain the highest level of CSE as possible at almost at any cost, right wrong or indifferent.

 

[Lord Thunder]

So, yes. A 50-60% average would probably be typical, and not necessarily bad. A 70-80% average would be very good. 80-90% would be exceptional. 100% would be bullshit.

This is exactly how Europeans grade. Where a 6 means adequate and means a 'pass'. (7= above expectations, 8 = good, 9 = exceptional, 10 = perfect, or in a survey: I am exaggerating/lying) Usually American companies are really confused about this, why we think they are "doing a bad job". :lol:

 

[martin]

The Ford survey said "Did the salesperson take the time to explain Sync thoroughly?"
How can I give a perfect survey if not one second of time was given to this

 

[icarumba]

I dinged my salesman on the survey. He was supposed to make arrangements to have some things taken care of when I brought the car back in a week, yet when I showed up, I had no appointment with service, and no parts had been ordered.

He literally said to me: "Hey, I told service. I did what I was supposed to - they dropped the ball, not me. I hope this doesn't affect my survey". Sorry, pal - a good salesman will follow up on everything he promised to the customer, and if there are any glitches on anyone's part, it is his responsibility to communicate with the customer and try and work out a solution. I don't care WHO "dropped the ball"...not my problem.

The fact that he threw the service department under the bus to save his own skin (whether or not it was actually their fault) just underscores what a weasel he is, and guarantees he will not get a good review out of me. I never reward those that have no concept of integrity!

 

[GNS]

I think that surveys should only be sent back if the customer was dissatisfied with something. The survey should be changed to a dissatisfaction report - to be used ONLY if the customer is unhappy about something, and which is ONLY valid for a period of 2 days after purchase. It should be included in the owner's package of materials to read over, and clearly highlighted if it is missing from the package (ex. it should be attached to something prominent, and if it is removed by an unscrupulous dealer, there will be a big red X mark underneath said prominent item, along with words that clearly say that the dissatisfaction report has been removed). When filling out the survey, it should be clearly indicated that the survey will reflect negatively on the dealer, and are you sure you want to do so, etc.

If customer service was truly exemplary, or even just good to very good, no reasonable customer would go home and fill out the survey to complain about anything. They'd be too deliriously happy to do so. They'll put that piece of paper away, it'll get eaten by the dog and that'll be the end of it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

How likely is it that if you give a bad survey the dealer will damage your car, scratch it intentionally, when you bring it in for resvice?

Yep. But still, first few services are free so, what the hell!

My wife's Subaru still has one free service interval left. It will never get used.

Backstory . . . the dealership wanted me to hand in my blank survey form for them to fill out, dangling some sort of "free gift" as bait. So I said "screw the gift" to myself and filled out my own survey online, giving them a good but not perfect score. For example, customer parking sucks, and with the current fully developed state of the block and that the roads around it cannot be changed - obviously this is something that no salesman or service writer should ever be scored on.

Two times out of the last three oil changes involved the filter being improperly installed - crimped in such a way that they developed small cracks and leaked about a thousand miles later.

This thread has me wondering if the shoddy oil change work wasn't a case of lightning striking twice.

In fairness, other repairs that the service department has had to perform (two bad sunroof motors) have been examples of exemplary work and customer service.


Norm

 

[Rhys]

So it's worth 80$ to you (approx cost of changing oil yourself) to worry about a scratch or worse? No thank you.

Hey, I barely use my focus and it has had no real problems. I'm only up to about 22000 km and I've had it for 1 year 1 month, only had one service and that was to fix up some of the paint. Some of my friends have had no problems with their services either. Don't know what happens in America though!

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