Cpe or ATM intercoowith Ford Performance tune?

[DUNDEM]

ATM FTW. I have the black as well. It looks awesome.

Sponsored

 

[BigBootyJudy]

Did some testing this evening with my new Tune Plus tune. Here's my peak charge air temp with an ATM IC installed. The actual air temp was 52F.

 

[Marvinmadman]

I don't have hard evidence, but I have noticed the AITs don't creep up as high while cruising as the bigger intercoolers. Might be due to the header bars and overall efficiency.

 

[cstewartj]

I've been looking at the Garrett IC for the nearly direct replacement of the stock IC, but the ATM blem price is the same as the Garrett and the performance of the ATM looks fantastic. I think the Garrett is also good, so I'm kind of at a tossup. I think ATM may get the nod as larger and black...

Garrett gets its intercooler fame from the fin pack on other platforms, and you're comparing a stock replacement intercooler (albeit much larger) with one that requires your stock shutters to be removed. ATM is a great unit, but I just really don't understand all the fan boy-ing over the ATM unit. The stepped look is nice for sure, but it's not $200 or so better than the ETS in my opinion. Even the Garrett is a bit steep for $800 that I've seen it (may be cheaper now). If you want black and appreciate the looks, though, it makes sense.

From what I've read, especially from member TheLion, the ATM cooler is as big as a "race" cooler but you don't experience the loss of pressures and lag like some of the bigger ones due to the stock turbo being too small to handle the capacity. He had a good post on comparison versus the Levels IC and it outperformed it. Sounds like the perfect fit that will still work well with the FP tune but is future proof if you go with a different tune down the road.

Between that post of his in the intercooler thread and a recent FB post by a guy (who I'm pretty sure is ATM - Josh Hebert) I'm not sure. There's a lot of misinformation on turbo lag/torque loss and I think more evidence is necessary. Again, I appreciate that the ATM is stepped but $200 better? Here's some feedback by Adam when the guy claimed it outperformed his ETS in the post:

And again, personal opinion, but that "rounded header bars" claim is highly overrated.

Dense fin pack, cast end tanks, and size - I think that's anyone's criteria.

 

[RubyRed_RN]

Garrett gets its intercooler fame from the fin pack on other platforms, and you're comparing a stock replacement intercooler (albeit much larger) with one that requires your stock shutters to be removed. ATM is a great unit, but I just really don't understand all the fan boy-ing over the ATM unit. The stepped look is nice for sure, but it's not $200 or so better than the ETS in my opinion. Even the Garrett is a bit steep for $800 that I've seen it (may be cheaper now). If you want black and appreciate the looks, though, it makes sense.



Between that post of his in the intercooler thread and a recent FB post by a guy (who I'm pretty sure is ATM - Josh Hebert) I'm not sure. There's a lot of misinformation on turbo lag/torque loss and I think more evidence is necessary. Again, I appreciate that the ATM is stepped but $200 better? Here's some feedback by Adam when the guy claimed it outperformed his ETS in the post:

And again, personal opinion, but that "rounded header bars" claim is highly overrated.

Dense fin pack, cast end tanks, and size - I think that's anyone's criteria.

Good info but I think you missed the part about ATM having blem coolers for $559 right now. So it's the same price as an ETS.

 

[OlTexastang]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Adam selling and singing the praises of ATM when they originally came out then between owner changes with ATM ( or during their downtime) he quit carrying them I’m guessing because of no inventory, now he obviously is going too promote what he sells. I’m not saying one is better than the other but you need to wade through all the stuff you read and take into account business related replies and make a decision on facts and what you are looking for in an intercooler. But like everyone has said anything is better than the stock intercooler. I went with a larger one because I live in Texas and deal with high air temps for half the year. If I lived up north I might have gone with a smaller one.

 

[TicTocTach]

Garrett gets its intercooler fame from the fin pack on other platforms, and you're comparing a stock replacement intercooler (albeit much larger) with one that requires your stock shutters to be removed. ATM is a great unit, but I just really don't understand all the fan boy-ing over the ATM unit. The stepped look is nice for sure, but it's not $200 or so better than the ETS in my opinion. Even the Garrett is a bit steep for $800 that I've seen it (may be cheaper now). If you want black and appreciate the looks, though, it makes sense.



Between that post of his in the intercooler thread and a recent FB post by a guy (who I'm pretty sure is ATM - Josh Hebert) I'm not sure. There's a lot of misinformation on turbo lag/torque loss and I think more evidence is necessary. Again, I appreciate that the ATM is stepped but $200 better? Here's some feedback by Adam when the guy claimed it outperformed his ETS in the post:

And again, personal opinion, but that "rounded header bars" claim is highly overrated.

Dense fin pack, cast end tanks, and size - I think that's anyone's criteria.

On googling:
The ETS is $550 with a 35% reduction in charge air temps
https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/ets-ford-mustang-ecoboost-intercooler.html

The Garrett is $575 (eBay) with a 30 degree reduction in charge air temps
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-19-Fo...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
https://motoiq.com/tested-honeywell-garrett-upgraded-intercooler-for-the-ecoboost-mustang/

The ATM (blem) is $559 per this thread, and has a 4 degree AIT increase on a 2-3-4 gear run.

Too bad that all of the tests are different, it would be great to see an actual apples-to-apples test to show how they each compared in reality. That said, it's pretty clear they're all a big step above the stock IC, and all within beer money for pricing.

In my opinion...
The pro of the ETS is the biggest size and most mass.
The con of the ETS is the end tanks are kind of wonky looking and the top tubes probably don't flow much at all.

The pros of the Garrett are installation nearly identical to stock, CARB certification, and CFD-designed end tanks.
The con of the Garrett is the nearly stock size so it can only do so much.

The pros of the ATM are the stepped core, factory black (minor pro), and rounded tubes.
The con of the ATM is the wonky end tank design.

I think the rounded tubes are a big deal, and probably as important as the CFD-designed end tanks. I work in water resources, so a lot of the flow mechanics ATM cites are reasonable sounding to me. The way the various entrance/exit designs perform are well documented, so the efficiencies they talk about are realistic when you compare one design to another. However, I think some of the benefit of the rounded tubes is lost on the pinched/squared end tanks. The Garrett tanks were designed to flow, and you can see it. CFD tanks over rounded tubes would be just awesome, but more work to manufacture.

 

[RubyRed_RN]

On googling:
The ETS is $550 with a 35% reduction in charge air temps
https://www.extremeturbosystems.com/ets-ford-mustang-ecoboost-intercooler.html

The Garrett is $575 (eBay) with a 30 degree reduction in charge air temps
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-19-Ford-Mustang-Intercooler-Garrett-P-N-857564-6001S-600-HP-2-3L-Ecoboost/263509443077?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
https://motoiq.com/tested-honeywell-garrett-upgraded-intercooler-for-the-ecoboost-mustang/

The ATM (blem) is $559 per this thread, and has a 4 degree AIT increase on a 2-3-4 gear run.

Too bad that all of the tests are different, it would be great to see an actual apples-to-apples test to show how they each compared in reality. That said, it's pretty clear they're all a big step above the stock IC, and all within beer money for pricing.

In my opinion...
The pro of the ETS is the biggest size and most mass.
The con of the ETS is the end tanks are kind of wonky looking and the top tubes probably don't flow much at all.

The pros of the Garrett are installation nearly identical to stock, CARB certification, and CFD-designed end tanks.
The con of the Garrett is the nearly stock size so it can only do so much.

The pros of the ATM are the stepped core, factory black (minor pro), and rounded tubes.
The con of the ATM is the wonky end tank design.

I think the rounded tubes are a big deal, and probably as important as the CFD-designed end tanks. I work in water resources, so a lot of the flow mechanics ATM cites are reasonable sounding to me. The way the various entrance/exit designs perform are well documented, so the efficiencies they talk about are realistic when you compare one design to another. However, I think some of the benefit of the rounded tubes is lost on the pinched/squared end tanks. The Garrett tanks were designed to flow, and you can see it. CFD tanks over rounded tubes would be just awesome, but more work to manufacture.

I'm new to this so what is wonky about the ATM end tank and what is CFD? All of this is really making the decision difficult for me as this is my first introduction to the car modding world.

 

[TicTocTach]

I'm new to this so what is wonky about the ATM end tank and what is CFD? All of this is really making the decision difficult for me as this is my first introduction to the car modding world.

CFD is Computational Fluid Dynamics - it is basically a way to model how a fluid is going to behave in the environment you're interested in. I use similar models to show where flood waters are going to go - the Garrett folks used the model to shape their tanks to help air move from the tubes to the charge pipes as efficiently as possible. The Garrett tanks look smoother than the other tanks, and they look this way because the model showed them where the tanks had to be opened up or moved around to get the air heading where they wanted it to go. There's a picture of the model about half way down this page:
https://www.garrettmotion.com/racin...olers/2015-2-3l-ecoboost-mustang-intercooler/

The other tanks aren't necessarily bad, but they're not as smooth and are probably driven by how to assemble them rather than best flow. The very thin wedges near the top ends of the tanks are where flow is going to be reduced. It's not like there won't be any air moving through those tubes, it just won't be entering and exiting as efficiently as the Garrett tanks.

At the end of the day, I don't think just the tank design should be the only thing to think about when buying. However, I do think that the extra work that went into the Garrett makes it a pretty nice piece.

 

[TurboStang18]

I purchased my Garrett Intercooler from a California company on eBay called acceleratedtube, for $500 brand new and it came with a Garrett turbo life t shirt.
It was double boxed when shipped.
They have 3 left, posted at $575 or best offer. I offered $500 and they accepted it.
So $500 total shipped with t shirt. It’s a very good deal and I’m happy with the product.
Was turned on to Garrett by the Moto IQ tests and reviews.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-19-Fo...=item3d5a630205:g:L6QAAOSwdjha655R:rk:19f:0

I'm running it with a Cobb Stage1 93 Octane tune, and FRPP Sport Cat Back. No other mods, runs good.
2018 Mustang Ecoboost, PP, 6Spd manual, 101A Group.

 

[RubyRed_RN]

I purchased my Garrett Intercooler from a California company on eBay called acceleratedtube, for $500 brand new and it came with a Garrett turbo life t shirt.
It was double boxed when shipped.
They have 3 left, posted at $575 or best offer. I offered $500 and they accepted it.
So $500 total shipped with t shirt. It’s a very good deal and I’m happy with the product.
Was turned on to Garrett by the Moto IQ tests and reviews.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-19-Fo...=item3d5a630205:g:L6QAAOSwdjha655R:rk:19f:0

I'm running it with a Cobb Stage1 93 Octane tune, and FRPP Sport Cat Back. No other mods, runs good.
2018 Mustang Ecoboost, PP, 6Spd manual, 101A Group.

Thanks TurboStang, I'm gonna check this out.

 

[cstewartj]

CFD is Computational Fluid Dynamics - it is basically a way to model how a fluid is going to behave in the environment you're interested in. I use similar models to show where flood waters are going to go - the Garrett folks used the model to shape their tanks to help air move from the tubes to the charge pipes as efficiently as possible. The Garrett tanks look smoother than the other tanks, and they look this way because the model showed them where the tanks had to be opened up or moved around to get the air heading where they wanted it to go. There's a picture of the model about half way down this page:
https://www.garrettmotion.com/racin...olers/2015-2-3l-ecoboost-mustang-intercooler/

The other tanks aren't necessarily bad, but they're not as smooth and are probably driven by how to assemble them rather than best flow. The very thin wedges near the top ends of the tanks are where flow is going to be reduced. It's not like there won't be any air moving through those tubes, it just won't be entering and exiting as efficiently as the Garrett tanks.

At the end of the day, I don't think just the tank design should be the only thing to think about when buying. However, I do think that the extra work that went into the Garrett makes it a pretty nice piece.

Spot on. The composition of intercoolers is basically 3 things you should look for: cast end tanks, dense fin packs (fins per inch), and size of the core (given you can rely on the quality of the metals/welds). Garrett has their fame from the fin pack quality, and they have cast end tanks, which are water tested to ensure there are no leaks. You can see the difference between cast end tanks on something like the Garrett and welded metal onto the end tanks if you look at a Levels, MAP or ETS. Those smaller guys buy cores overseas and weld the sheet metal locally without regard for fluidity of air, as that's what keeps their costs lower. Cast end tanks take the flow of air into account into design to faciliate the maximum flow air through the tank and into the turbo.

 

[cstewartj]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Adam selling and singing the praises of ATM when they originally came out then between owner changes with ATM ( or during their downtime) he quit carrying them I’m guessing because of no inventory, now he obviously is going too promote what he sells. I’m not saying one is better than the other but you need to wade through all the stuff you read and take into account business related replies and make a decision on facts and what you are looking for in an intercooler. But like everyone has said anything is better than the stock intercooler. I went with a larger one because I live in Texas and deal with high air temps for half the year. If I lived up north I might have gone with a smaller one.

Agreed. The sales guys push what they sell at the end of the day because it's where they get their commissions. I say go with someone stateside for support and for you to know what you'r ebuying, and while Adam knows his stuff he still plugs what he sells over anything else.

 

[RubyRed_RN]

Any thoughts on Speed Factory IC?

Sponsored