Coyote engine oil for the track?

[higdominator]

That's what I was thinking as I watch these threads go round and round. If at the track you run at, at the intensity you drive at, and the oil temp gauge creeps up to yellow would it be a reasonable plan to move up a viscosity level and try again?

That is a good plan. Eventually you will end up where everyone else has gone before, which is running a decent viscosity and still getting it super hot on summer track days. I hit the yellow last weekend and thankfully had a good viscosity in the car to keep it happy. It was 90* and muggy and I was turning pretty decent times. If it weren't for traffic I would have likely overheated the car. A 5w20 would have been water at that point.

The best fix is a proper external oil cooler and a oil weight targeted to your estimated operating temps. With an oil cooler I will likely drop my oil weight back down, probably to a w30.

You want to run the least amount of viscosity as you can- that will be be what it needs to be on the track. The only reason many of us go up in viscosity is we don't have the means to keep these lower initial viscosity fluids from becoming too thin from the heat just yet.

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[Must_Tang]

Has anyone here installed the Mishi oil cooler and sandwich plate? If so, good results?

 

[wildcatgoal]

I have the setup but I haven't installed it yet, haha.

What I've heard is the sandwich plate makes it hard to get the OEM oil filter on due to the subframe crossmember being right there, let alone the nicer Ford Performance filter.

I would also rather have a hardline design coming out of the radiator so I'm not resting piping that contains my oil on other things but that's not a huge deal I guess.

 

[mustang_guy]

Mmr has a filter relocator that might help

 

[apex15stangPP]

I've been using 50W for 2 years now, no issues. Around 35 track days. One thing I did notice from going from 20 to 30 and then 30-40 is how much blow by I was getting. Until I started running a good 40w and 50w oil I had to empty my catch cans after every session.

 

[higdominator]

The Mishi kit is really nice, but I would prefer it if it came with the relocation.

I like that they provide a new lower radiator hose without the provisions for the factory "oil heater".

I use the larger XG2 filter and its already a tight fit in there.

 

[DickR]

You want to run the least amount of viscosity as you can- that will be be what it needs to be on the track. The only reason many of us go up in viscosity is we don't have the means to keep these lower initial viscosity fluids from becoming too thin from the heat just yet.

For a PP GT with original gauges, etc. what is a good way to determine whether or not the 5W-20 has gotten too hot and thin? Temp above the green zone, OP low compared to "normal when fully warm"? "Lifter noise" after hard use such as high rev autocross run with rev limiter time? Power falling off before rev limiter starts to kick in?

With my autocross 15 GT PP at Pro Solos and other HOT autocrosses with little time between runs my car hasn't experienced any of those symptoms with Mobil 1 5W-20 changed at 5K. A friend has had "lifter noise" after runs but I don't recall for sure what oil but there is some chance it was Motorcraft 5W-20 either semi or full synthetic.

 

[higdominator]

The oil temp gauge (although inferred), is what people are watching. Anything in the opper 3rd of the green to the yellow is going to be hot enough to consider a w20 as no longer a w20. Straight up the middle of the gauge is considered "normal" and should denote 212F. The beginning of the yellow is 280F. I posted a chart on the previous page showing the viscous changes in particular weights based on temp.

The problem with autocross is that you don't get sufficient "breaks" like the road course cars do. A blast too 100+ isn't nearly as bad on my car as is linking a rhythm section (like an auto cross course) where RPMS are up and airflow is down. You might not have symptoms, each car is different. Then again, most issues are asymptomatic until failure. I'm not saying that is your case, but I don't believe there is a certain nexus between their car making noise and yours not.

So to simply to answer the question, if your temps pass into the upper 1/3 of the green section on the in dash gauge, you have warmed the oil past its viscosity rating, which is tested at 212F.

 

[spiller]

[MENTION=12865]DickR[/MENTION] shouldn't autocross be fine with a 5w20? I wouldn't have thought the short runs would cause much of an issue.

[MENTION=17656]higdominator[/MENTION] [MENTION=14941]apex15stangPP[/MENTION]

Thanks for the informative feedback. Are your cars daily driven or just weekend warriors? I would like to know how the 5w50 goes on a daily basis but I guess there is no easy way to measure that. I drive my cars at the limit on track (not a novice) and it does get hot where I live but given my sessions are short (3-6 laps) I think I'm going to start with Amsoil 0w40 SS and work my way up from there. A concern of mine is if something should go wrong with the engine (not necessarily from the oil), it could be easy for Ford to make life difficult due to not using a specified oil. I guess I could always keep the factory fill that I drain for a "rainy day"!

 

[spiller]

I remember someone posting the temp ranges that correspond to the different colour zones on the factory oil temp gauge. I can't remember which thread it was but that would be useful to have. Ford gives us a bunch of useless features but they can't put a numerical oil temp gauge!? I don't like to see my oil temps go past 110-120 degrees Celsius (230F-250F) at the track.

 

[DickR]

There is a good chance I posted the oil temp info in 2015 but here it is.

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The only temperature sensor I can find in the 2015 FSM for the 5.0 is the cylinder head temp sensor (CHT). I cannot find one on the Ford online parts site either. Therefore it appears that the gauges are "inferring" both oil temp and coolant temp from the CHT.

I "think" most reference to oil temps is based on sump temp sensor and generally are much lower than what the FSM says. I don't know how to explain why Ford says temps well above the typical oil temp "limits" are fine.

I certainly "hope" that relatively fresh major brand 5w-20 synthetic oil is sufficient for autocross in the 5.0. :-) but don't know. Given all the coatings and other modern technology used in the engine I'm not worried but don't actually "know". I certainly cannot tell from "how the car drives". The oil level barely moves, if at all, on the dipstick between changes.

My car has about 28K miles mostly driving to/from distant autocrosses since early 2015.

 

[Must_Tang]

On the Mishi kit, you remove the factory oil cooler sandwich plate and replace it with the Mishi plate. It looks thinner in the pix. You still have clearance issues with the filter?

 

[sigintel]

I've been using 50W for 2 years now, no issues. Around 35 track days. One thing I did notice from going from 20 to 30 and then 30-40 is how much blow by I was getting. Until I started running a good 40w and 50w oil I had to empty my catch cans after every session.

What are your CHTs hitting on track?
Im running wo rear coping and switched to running short course at Dollahites E Austin track for max torture and least airflow and am starting to push CHT up to 224. Was running 5w-20 w CHT below 200 running longer courses. Thinkn 5w-30 with CHT 200-225? Will test again in a couple weeks at max 100+ ambient at noon.
This is all running a Whipple, 170Rriesche, rear coping n bat cover removed.

Can someone graph the viscosities of 520,530,040,550 so we can see what the corresponding temps are to hit the 5w20 180-210F viscosities? Maybe pick 520 @ 200F as center of range?



Running FI you can ruin heads so easily with the extra heat. I prefer lowering coolant temp to running thicker oil.

 

[spiller]

[MENTION=12865]DickR[/MENTION] thanks for the info and explanation of where the sensors are. So not only do we have an oil temp gauge that is horribly lenient (138-146 Celsius is not just "warm"!), but it's also taking readings from an indirect source. Sigh.

 

[apex15stangPP]

What are your CHTs hitting on track?
Im running wo rear coping and switched to running short course at Dollahites E Austin track for max torture and least airflow and am starting to push CHT up to 224. Was running 5w-20 w CHT below 200 running longer courses. Thinkn 5w-30 with CHT 200-225? Will test again in a couple weeks at max 100+ ambient at noon.
This is all running a Whipple, 170Rriesche, rear coping n bat cover removed.

Can someone graph the viscosities of 520,530,040,550 so we can see what the corresponding temps are to hit the 5w20 180-210F viscosities? Maybe pick 520 @ 200F as center of range?



Running FI you can ruin heads so easily with the extra heat. I prefer lowering coolant temp to running thicker oil.

Average CHT are 240-260 most of the time. Once I get towards 250 and the oil temp gauge is climbing to the yellow I back off for a lap.

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