Convertible Roof, Windows & Mirrors Failure

[AlanH]

My 2017 (2016 build) GT convertible suffers an intermittent fault where the top, windows and mirrors all have no power. Sandicliffe Nottingham, the supplying dealer, have had the car for a total of 6 days now. They delivered it back yesterday as fixed, tried it this morning and the faults back! The car has done 20,000 miles in exactly 2 years.

Various things have been told me including "we did a reset, it's fine now" (lasted 10 minutes that time), "It's the Body Control Module. Comes from Germany, we'll call you when it arrives" and the latest "it's the Battery Monitoring System that disables things like the heated screen and the stop/start(!!!) if the battery is a bit low so we haven't fitted the BCM because you don't need it". Allegedly they had the battery on charge all day yesterday, but, as I said earlier, it failed this morning.

It's going back yet again on Monday and I'm thinking of asking the following questions:

1. Have you tested the battery, the car never stands for more than a couple of days?
2. Have you tested the alternator?
3. Have you done a network test to determine that all CAN bus modules are working?
4. (Optional) Do you have any idea what you're doing?

Does any other member have any ideas please?

Thanks

Alan

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[Redcruzer]

My 2017 (2016 build) GT convertible suffers an intermittent fault where the top, windows and mirrors all have no power. Sandicliffe Nottingham, the supplying dealer, have had the car for a total of 6 days now. They delivered it back yesterday as fixed, tried it this morning and the faults back! The car has done 20,000 miles in exactly 2 years.

Various things have been told me including "we did a reset, it's fine now" (lasted 10 minutes that time), "It's the Body Control Module. Comes from Germany, we'll call you when it arrives" and the latest "it's the Battery Monitoring System that disables things like the heated screen and the stop/start(!!!) if the battery is a bit low so we haven't fitted the BCM because you don't need it". Allegedly they had the battery on charge all day yesterday, but, as I said earlier, it failed this morning.

It's going back yet again on Monday and I'm thinking of asking the following questions:

1. Have you tested the battery, the car never stands for more than a couple of days?
2. Have you tested the alternator?
3. Have you done a network test to determine that all CAN bus modules are working?
4. (Optional) Do you have any idea what you're doing?

Does any other member have any ideas please?

Thanks

Alan

Sorry to hear about your troubles. While I havent heard of your exact set of symptoms, I have read here about similar weird eletrical issues due to bad batteries.

Battery testing can be spotty at times. If it were me, I'd replace your battery first chance I got.

 

[wanted33]

Alan, sorry about the problems. I'm just gonna think outside the box here. I don't know for sure, but does Fords Convertibles tops have a safety switch attached to the locking mechanism that releases the top to put it down. My wife has a convertible, and I don't know for sure as I haven't had any reason to look. I do know that my Corvette Convertible has one, and when the latch is closed the top will not cycle. I have to turn the locking handle so it can start the cycle. If there is safety switch there, and being yours is intermittent It could be that switch. Good luck, if only it would be that easy.

I'm thinking the easiest way to find out is to hit the up/down switch (and hey that little switch could the problem also), if it tries to cycle there may be no safety mech. there.

I said all that to say this, as stated it could also just be the battery voltage is low. Electronics do crazy things because of a low battery.

 

[AlanH]

Alan, sorry about the problems. I'm just gonna think outside the box here. I don't know for sure, but does Fords Convertibles tops have a safety switch attached to the locking mechanism that releases the top to put it down. My wife has a convertible, and I don't know for sure as I haven't had any reason to look. I do know that my Corvette Convertible has one, and when the latch is closed the top will not cycle. I have to turn the locking handle so it can start the cycle. If there is safety switch there, and being yours is intermittent It could be that switch. Good luck, if only it would be that easy.

I'm thinking the easiest way to find out is to hit the up/down switch (and hey that little switch could the problem also), if it tries to cycle there may be no safety mech. there.

I said all that to say this, as stated it could also just be the battery voltage is low. Electronics do crazy things because of a low battery.

Thanks Jim, the thing is I lose roof, windows and mirrors simultaneously. To see if things are working I try the mirrors as I daren't open the roof in case it rains and I can't close it! As Chris suggested I'll get the battery tested by another, disinterested, garage, It's never given any indication of being discharged though.

 

[Ed M]

There is an Artificial Intelligence embedded in every electrical device. It knows when you have contacted the repairman and behaves until he leaves. Very frustrating.

 

[Redcruzer]

Thanks Jim, the thing is I lose roof, windows and mirrors simultaneously. To see if things are working I try the mirrors as I daren't open the roof in case it rains and I can't close it! As Chris suggested I'll get the battery tested by another, disinterested, garage, It's never given any indication of being discharged though.

I have an 2012 Escape we bought new. After four months the battery would die after about fifteen minutes listening to the radio. Had the dealer test it three times and always showed good. I thought the dealer was shining me on. Had another shop test it after the fourth time having to call a tow truck and it showed good. Replaced the battery and been great ever since. These newer electronics are very sensitive to minor voltage and current fluctuations. A flakey or intermintent cell is all it takes and sometimes testing won’t catch it.

 

[ugstang17]

Intermittent problems are never easy to isolate. They are a technicain's worst nightmare. I speak from experience. A tech is unable to gaze into a Crystal Ball for the resolve. And unfortunately there is more resolved than searching for and updating to the latest driver or resetting a router to resolve the problem. Trust me, they don't want you coming back for the same issue any more than you want to go back. Have a New Castle,exhibit some patience, and give the tech a chance.

If they have not yet replaced the body module I would bet on that without having a schematic on the 15+ to look at. My wife lost her pass window, and sunroof function on her Fusion. Two Body modules had failed. Replaced them and poof. Unfortunately they have to be programmed to communicate on the canbus network in the car so it's not something you can pick up and swap out.

 

[AlanH]

Intermittent problems are never easy to isolate. They are a technicain's worst nightmare. I speak from experience. A tech is unable to gaze into a Crystal Ball for the resolve. And unfortunately there is more resolved than searching for and updating to the latest driver or resetting a router to resolve the problem. Trust me, they don't want you coming back for the same issue any more than you want to go back. Have a New Castle,exhibit some patience, and give the tech a chance.

If they have not yet replaced the body module I would bet on that without having a schematic on the 15+ to look at. My wife lost her pass window, and sunroof function on her Fusion. Two Body modules had failed. Replaced them and poof. Unfortunately they have to be programmed to communicate on the canbus network in the car so it's not something you can pick up and swap out.

Think they've cracked it!
It went back today and they found intermittent contact on fuse 23 which feeds the door module which controls the top, windows and mirrors. This was where the power for the dashcam had been tapped off and the weight of the piggy-back fuse link had caused the contacts to slowly bend over time. Paul at Sandicliffe was able to make the fault go "hard" when pressure was put on the fuse in one direction and disappear when pushed the other way. He tightened the contacts and, Shazam!, fault gone. If it comes back at some point in the future I know where to look. Thanks Paul.

 

[ugstang17]

^^^ That is great. Schematics reveal what the different devices have in common. I am still trying to decide if I am going to keep my 17GT or not. Otherwise I would have a set of shop manuals from Ford for this car. Makes perfect sense being the fuse is common to all of them. Just takes time. Hope you were able to share your appreciation with the tech personally. Often times just a simple handshake and a thank you goes so far in a world where most of what a person hears is negative.

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