Completely turning off 911 assist

[Norm Peterson]

I don't believe either of us said everyone should do it. We are just asking questions and giving our opinion. We are in titled to this just as much as someone is to their privacy.

But your opinion comes off as scolding anybody who would not choose to do as you apparently do, i.e. turn/leave it on.

I cannot think of a good reason to turn it off, as if it is turned on it no longer bothers you to activate it.

I'm not interested in wading through the BB side to all this either. It's just one less annoyance that OP wants removed from his life, and not necessarily in the same way that others here would choose.

Me - I wouldn't be sync'ing my phone to the car in the first place, which might be yet another option for not getting the message. Whether that's an acceptable alternative for OP or anybody else would of course be up to them (see what I did differently with that?).


Norm

Sponsored

 

[Jeepwx03]

But your opinion comes off as scolding anybody who would not choose to do as you apparently do, i.e. turn/leave it on.




I'm not interested in wading through the BB side to all this either. It's just one less annoyance that OP wants removed from his life, and not necessarily in the same way that others here would choose.

Me - I wouldn't be sync'ing my phone to the car in the first place, which might be yet another option for not getting the message. Whether that's an acceptable alternative for OP or anybody else would of course be up to them (see what I did differently with that?).


Norm

As far as I can tell your the only one that is reading ours posts in this manner.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

It doesn't just call 911. From Ford's press release about it:

The enhancements will provide the ability to deliver information such as the maximum change in velocity during impact, indication of crash type (front, side, rear or rollover), safety belt usage as detected by the vehicle, awareness of whether multiple impacts occurred and whether airbags were deployed.

So, if you're speeding and get in an accident, the police will have evidence of that.

 

[Papaya]

It doesn't just call 911. From Ford's press release about it:



So, if you're speeding and get in an accident, the police will have evidence of that.

All new cars and trucks have a blackbox now. Police will connect their laptop to the OBDII and read it out if a crash happened.

 

[stoli]

All new cars and trucks have a blackbox now. Police will connect their laptop to the OBDII and read it out if a crash happened.

That depends on the state. In most cases it will take a warrant or court order. Your insurance company is a different story...

What may be worse is Ford's data logging:

“We know everyone who breaks the law, we know when you're doing it. We have GPS in your car, so we know what you're doing,” Ford’s Jim Farley told a Vegas crowd on Wednesday, according to Business Insider reporter Jim Edwards.

http://rt.com/usa/ford-vp-auto-surveillance-382/

Then the question is what is Ford doing with that data, who are they sharing it with, and can you request the destruction of said private data.

 

[RubyRed15]

The black box data is a known issue. Surely someone will develop a way to defeat that in time. Is this really linked to the 911 function?

 

[Blk2015GT]

That depends on the state. In most cases it will take a warrant or court order. Your insurance company is a different story...

What may be worse is Ford's data logging:


http://rt.com/usa/ford-vp-auto-surveillance-382/

Then the question is what is Ford doing with that data, who are they sharing it with, and can you request the destruction of said private data.

Wait wait wait. So now your car's computer has your personal information? This is getting way off course/topic.

How does the car now know your social security, blood type, account numbers, birthday, kid's names or ANYTHING that you have a right to privacy to?

I'm pretty sure would show "Ford Mustang GT 2015, mileage, speed, direction, time, date" Any observer can tell that information as a witness, there is no right to privacy to any of the information. I'm also sure it does not have infinite recording and can only record for the last x minutes, just as an airplane black box overwrites itself like a computer hard drive. It does not store your data/routes forever. I would be shocked if it could store more than the last 30-60 minutes as storage costs $.

And flip that statement around as it is applicable both ways. It can also prove innocence in a crash too, not just guilt when there are no witnesses.

 

[Norm Peterson]

As far as I can tell your the only one that is reading ours posts in this manner.

Or maybe just the only one letting you know that your posts can so easily be read that way . . .

After all, you guys either within minutes flat-out told him to select it

Yeah, select yes

or at least suggested that he allow it.

Why not just allow it?

Keep in mind that OP specifically asked about disabling it. Not merely eliminating its status message. Ricky gave him a way out, way back in post #7.


Norm

 

[Rickycardo]

Wait wait wait. So now your car's computer has your personal information? This is getting way off course/topic.

How does the car now know your social security, blood type, account numbers, birthday, kid's names or ANYTHING that you have a right to privacy to?

I'm pretty sure it shows "Ford Mustang GT 2015, mileage, speed, direction, time, date" Any observer can tell that information as a witness, there is no right to privacy to any of the information.

And flip that statement around, it can also prove innocence in a crash, not just guilt when there are no witnesses.

Information contained in a black box on my vehicle is no different than information contained on any computer, tablet or smartphone that I own. It is my property and should not subject to seizure without a warrant.

 

[Blk2015GT]

Information contained in a black box on my vehicle is no different than information contained on any computer, tablet or smartphone that I own. It is my property and should not subject to seizure without a warrant.

COMPLETELY different legally. There is no personal information on a black box like your personal thoughts, account numbers, passwords, etc on a computer.

What you think is not what the law says anywhere that I know of. There is no rationale to compare a black box to a smartphone (recently in the US Supreme Court decisions) or a computer that contain highly personal information about yourself and your thoughts to constitutionally protect.

 

[Rickycardo]

COMPLETELY different legally. There is no personal information on a black box like your personal thoughts, account numbers, passwords, etc on a computer.

What you think is not what the law says anywhere that I know of. There is no rationale to compare a black box to a smartphone (recently in the US Supreme Court decisions) or a computer that contain highly personal information about yourself and your thoughts to constitutionally protect.

I disagree and as soon as someone creates an encryption for the black box information (legal or otherwise) I will do what is necessary to secure that data.

 

[stoli]

I get a kick out of how this thread went so sideways from a simple tongue-in-cheek "Big Brother" reply. :shrug:

Since it's on that path....

I disagree and as soon as someone creates an encryption for the black box information (legal or otherwise) I will do what is necessary to secure that data.

I doubt that will happen, but the new EDRs are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to driving/driver metadata transfer. Next up are the V2V (vehicle-to-vehicle) systems the NHTSA is pushing for so your car can talk to mine.

The tech will be introduced to our cars, the challenge is what we allow to be done with the resulting data. Unfortunately this is where Joe Public tends to tune out and not understand (or care about) the potential negative implications...

 

[Blk2015GT]

Again, it is not your personal data so there is no need to encrypt or protect; and I promise nearly any judge in this country would grant access to it if you refused. If another person can see it, it is not personal data; period. If an observer can guesstimate your speed that is not private date, just as your car's direction, color, make, model, personal height, weight visual appearance, hair and skin color etc. If it's readily observed in public it is not going to receive constitutional privacy protection. You cannot make something open to the public and then scream I want constitutional privacy protection. The law doesn't work that way.

The box/data could not be tied to you if separated from the car. It contains absolutely zero data about the driver. Case in point if you lent the car to a friend and he got into an accident, the box cannot differentiate who was driving. So what personal privacy protections should you be afforded with already anonymous data? Your car is not a person as objects are not afforded constitutional protections. That is the first hurdle to overcome showing how it violates your privacy somehow.

As stated earlier, I guess you will be selling your 2015 and giving away your cell phone and electronic devices too then. At least with the car there is not a way to access the info remotely from the other end without you ever knowing. People should be more concerned about cell phones, computers and other electronics that they own before some black box in their car only accessible in person in the event of a crash for data purposes. Will not part with the smartphone but want to preach privacy concerns about much much more minor privacy concerns, if even a real concern depending on what it actually records or doesn't, about a car computer/black box. It's hypocritical preaching at best.

I get a kick out of how this thread went so sideways from a simple tongue-in-cheek "Big Brother" reply. :shrug:

Since it's on that path....



I doubt that will happen, but the new EDRs are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to driving/driver metadata transfer. Next up are the V2V (vehicle-to-vehicle) systems the NHTSA is pushing for so your car can talk to mine.

The tech will be introduced to our cars, the challenge is what we allow to be done with the resulting data. Unfortunately this is where Joe Public tends to tune out and not understand (or care about) the potential negative implications...

I still disagree. I will again use the example if I borrowed your car. It cannot tell if it is me or you driving it, so what legitimate constitutional privacy protection could you expect? Let's take that a step further. Let's say I get in a wreck in your car any the insurance wants to access the info to show that I did not cause the crash in your car? How is that your personal privacy, you werent even driving. Again, the data must be overwritten at some point there is not perpetual memory in black box type devices (I cannot imagine it even stores data from more than the last say 30min-maybe a few hours worth of driving at the absolute max constantly being overwritten as the only relevant crash data would be the minute before the accident) so there would be no hint of your driving habits, but only mine.

Same thing with the whole cars talking to each other. Until the convey personal data about the driver it's not personal data that is shielded from the public as such.

Unless a car can tell who is driving it, then it does not become a personal privacy concern/protection



I think we need to separate what people THINK should be constitutionally protected, and what the Supreme Court for the last 100 years has actually said is enforceable and so. All that really matters is the current law of the land at today 3/22/15. What could or will happen is speculation at best.

 

[Norm Peterson]

V2V wouldn't have to be about personal data at all. Just the possibility that your car could then go on to carry out autonomous car control actions is something you should fear.

Unless you like being startled by your car doing things you didn't tell it to do as you're driving it.


Norm

 

[stoli]

Again, it is not your personal data so there is no need to encrypt or protect; and I promise nearly any judge in this country would grant access to it if you refused.

It's data generated by something I own and by my actions. That makes it my data, regardless of what that data is.

What right do you have to data generated by my car? What right does Ford, Google, or the car behind me? That's where this tech is going. Be it for traffic monitoring, enforcement, data mining, maintenance, or tracking what someone does after leaving Starbucks.

Some people are not concerned by that, and that's fine. On the other hand, some are very concerned about data privacy, or lack thereof, however innocuous it may seem. When a new tech device is mandated to be in vehicles and its sole purpose is to collect and transfer data, I think it's pretty important to fully understand what can and cannot done with that data. Today and tomorrow.

Sponsored