Close-call thread (Dash Cam)

[Kinjirra]

im sure they can ask for it, but can they just take it? id imagine they would need a warrant to just take your personal property

Not at the scene of a crime or accident...it would be considered evidence. Especially if your the suspect. Now if they wanted it later after you left then ya they would need a court order. They may not be able to take the actual dashcam but the SD card for sure. Guess it depends on the circumstances and your local laws more then anything.

Personally I will be having one hardwired into the car very shortly.

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[HoosierDaddy]

I said there is no law saying you can't delete your own videos. If the court wants to try and prove something incriminating was on the video, they can go for it, but it would be pretty hard to "assume" something incriminating was on the video just because one doesn't exist.

You are right and wrong. Yes, you certainly can delete, destroy, hide any recording; it belongs to you. But you're wrong that someone still has to prove it shows wrongdoing on your part. The law says that destroying, erasing, hiding, etc is in itself evidence that the recording shows wrongdoing on your part. Destroying it is the legal equivalent of the jury/judge watching a video showing your guilt.

 

[goldengooner]

You are right and wrong. Yes, you certainly can delete, destroy, hide any recording; it belongs to you. But you're wrong that someone still has to prove it shows wrongdoing on your part. The law says that destroying, erasing, hiding, etc is in itself evidence that the recording shows wrongdoing on your part. Destroying it is the legal equivalent of the jury/judge watching a video showing your guilt.

well yea, why would you destroy it otherwise?
its a sign of guilt

 

[Jdenkevitz]

I said there is no law saying you can't delete your own videos. If the court wants to try and prove something incriminating was on the video, they can go for it, but it would be pretty hard to "assume" something incriminating was on the video just because one doesn't exist. Maybe the dashcam wasn't in the car, or wasn't on, or looped over the video that was in question. A good lawyer is not going to let that happen in America ... well, at least not yet.

You are mistaken. The court, in matters of spoliation of requested evidence, has no burden to prove anything regarding the content of the requested video. Regarding spoliation, there are rules specifically tailored providing sanctions against the offending party.

Think about the logical extension of your scenario. To have it otherwise would mean any party in any matter can simply destroy evidence willy nilly, without fear of consequences. It would essentially eviscerate our model of legal culpability and discovery.

There are certainly methods and means to object to requests for the production of evidence (privilege, relevance, proportionality), but "I deleted it" is not one that passes muster.

 

[FranzVonHoffer]

I said there is no law saying you can't delete your own videos. If the court wants to try and prove something incriminating was on the video, they can go for it, but it would be pretty hard to "assume" something incriminating was on the video just because one doesn't exist. Maybe the dashcam wasn't in the car, or wasn't on, or looped over the video that was in question. A good lawyer is not going to let that happen in America ... well, at least not yet.

Back in the early 2000's we would wait a year before posting street racing vids, but that was on a private site. We also didn't have time stamps on them so who knows if that would have made a difference, I had a cop friend tell me a year was pretty safe so we went with that.

I don't race anymore, but I've got a couple of top out videos on this car that will probably never be posted since I think LEOs watch for this kind of thing more thoroughly now days. I would be leery about posting anything that could be perceived as reckless driving today.

 

[GT Pony]

You are mistaken. The court, in matters of spoliation of requested evidence, has no burden to prove anything regarding the content of the requested video. Regarding spoliation, there are rules specifically tailored providing sanctions against the offending party.

Think about the logical extension of your scenario. To have it otherwise would mean any party in any matter can simply destroy evidence willy nilly, without fear of consequences. It would essentially eviscerate our model of legal culpability and discovery.

There are certainly methods and means to object to requests for the production of evidence (privilege, relevance, proportionality), but "I deleted it" is not one that passes muster.

What if the dashcam was in the car but not recording for some reason. Just because it's in the car doesn't automatically mean it's always recording. You're saying a court is going to automatically assume you're guilty because evidence wasn't there for whatever reason? Not buying that.

 

[Jdenkevitz]

What if the dashcam was in the car but not recording for some reason. Just because it's in the car doesn't automatically mean it's always recording. You're saying a court is going to automatically assume you're guilty because evidence wasn't there for whatever reason? Not buying that.

You are twisting things.
I am saying that if you have evidence that has been requested by the court or opposing counsel, or has been deemed material by law enforcement, and you then delete that evidence, you can be sanctioned heavily by the court. If you get into an accident and then say "uh oh" and delete the files, that may also be deemed a violation.

Whether you can get away with deleting or 'losing' the memory card is a separate matter, which has no bearing on whether it is or is not lawful to have done so.

I am discussing the law, not how likely you are to violate it and get away with it.

Please watch this (roughly 3 minutes is relevant to our discussion):

 

[goldengooner]

What if the dashcam was in the car but not recording for some reason. Just because it's in the car doesn't automatically mean it's always recording. You're saying a court is going to automatically assume you're guilty because evidence wasn't there for whatever reason? Not buying that.

Why would it not be Recording?
They all record all the time, and overwrite previous recordings
You will look as guilty as hell

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Why would it not be Recording?
They all record all the time, and overwrite previous recordings
You will look as guilty as hell

It would always be recording if its wired that way, which most are. But even if you wired one so you had to manually plug it in or turn it on, you could still have a problem because juries would assume a typical person doesn't buy a dash cam and not use it just just as they don't buy milk and fail to put it in the refrigerator. If I was on a civil case jury, I would believe it more likely than not a dash cam was in use.

 

[Kinjirra]

Guys seriously why are we having a discussion on what seems like "How to circumvent the law" on here?

If your gonna do something criminal ffs dont put your dash cam into your car. If your gonna drive like a Tool then dont put the dash cam in your car.... Simple concept. Then you dont have to worry about the police asking for it when you get caught/run over someone at a C&C meet.

 

[FranzVonHoffer]

It would always be recording if its wired that way, which most are. But even if you wired one so you had to manually plug it in or turn it on, you could still have a problem because juries would assume a typical person doesn't buy a dash cam and not use it just just as they don't buy milk and fail to put it in the refrigerator. If I was on a civil case jury, I would believe it more likely than not a dash cam was in use.

Dash cams aren't immune to SD card issues. I've had corrupted data several times when I don't format the card regularly.

 

[StangATX]

The lady at the end was like "Why the f**k you honked at me for?"

[ame]

Quick question here... What if that lady would've wreck my car who would be at fault? I mean I know that you have to be "master" of your vehicle but sometimes it's kinda hard to tell... She could be more back and mess the whole side of the car. Would it be 50/50 for me not trying to avoid it enough?

PS: I don't know how you say it. (The country I used to live before they used to say "Master" of your vehicle. Which means that you should be able to control your vehicle no matter what happens to it...)

 

[goldengooner]

Dash cams aren't immune to SD card issues. I've had corrupted data several times when I don't format the card regularly.

with the right tech, anything can be de-corrupted, can also be checked to see when it was corrupted

 

[MyFirst5.0]

Quick question here... What if that lady would've wreck my car who would be at fault? I mean I know that you have to be "master" of your vehicle but sometimes it's kinda hard to tell... She could be more back and mess the whole side of the car. Would it be 50/50 for me not trying to avoid it enough?

she would be at fault, she needs to stay in her lane

 

[StangATX]

Alrighty, Thanks for the clarification!

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