California Lemon Law

[Guyfrom916]

I bought a brand new 2018 Mustang GT (10 speed auto) off showroom floor on in May of 2018. It is not a performance pack but does come with Sync 3 and the driveability modes. I enjoyed this car until mid-late September until I received a check engine light on the car. By this time I bought Eibach Sportline lowering springs, deleted the resonator, and bought 20in Niche’s. Nearly to 8,000 miles on the vehicle I call my local Ford dealership to inform them of the issue. I scheduled an appointment for the following Monday and the check engine light is off, tech tells me to come back when light comes on to run the obd 2 codes. Two days later on my way to get lunch light comes on so I take the car in on October 10th at 8,028 miles.

Engine was misfiring and the tech heard an engine ticking sound coming from motor. Everything from there is history. They try to change lifters, followers, cams and even cylinder heads. After 30 days of waiting for the dealership service department to fix my car I decide to Lemon law the car based on my states laws (California). It does not have to be 3-4 attempts or even 30 consecutive days, just FYI.

Now I am dealing with the Reacquired Vehcicle Department, which is the worst. The communication since day 1 with my car being in the shop has been a terrible and painfully long experience. I have so much to write on the situation I had to endure from Ford Motor Company and I feel like I’m not being treated like someone who just spent over $40k on their product.

I started this chat if anybody has questions and I can provide any insight I can. I am also on YouTube: Nine One Six Blvck

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[2018S550GT]

I've been following your channel since starting my "s550 tick" playlist on YT a while back. I wish you the best with the process, based on what others have documented on here, it can be a pain.

 

[Guyfrom916]

Thank you, it’s a slow process for sure.

 

[accel]

I bought a brand new 2018 Mustang GT (10 speed auto) off showroom floor on in May of 2018. It is not a performance pack but does come with Sync 3 and the driveability modes. I enjoyed this car until mid-late September until I received a check engine light on the car. By this time I bought Eibach Sportline lowering springs, deleted the resonator, and bought 20in Niche’s. Nearly to 8,000 miles on the vehicle I call my local Ford dealership to inform them of the issue. I scheduled an appointment for the following Monday and the check engine light is off, tech tells me to come back when light comes on to run the obd 2 codes. Two days later on my way to get lunch light comes on so I take the car in on October 10th at 8,028 miles.

Engine was misfiring and the tech heard an engine ticking sound coming from motor. Everything from there is history. They try to change lifters, followers, cams and even cylinder heads. After 30 days of waiting for the dealership service department to fix my car I decide to Lemon law the car based on my states laws (California). It does not have to be 3-4 attempts or even 30 consecutive days, just FYI.

Now I am dealing with the Reacquired Vehcicle Department, which is the worst. The communication since day 1 with my car being in the shop has been a terrible and painfully long experience. I have so much to write on the situation I had to endure from Ford Motor Company and I feel like I’m not being treated like someone who just spent over $40k on their product.

I started this chat if anybody has questions and I can provide any insight I can. I am also on YouTube: Nine One Six Blvck

Ithink it is 30 cumulative days. But I still thought it wss 3 attempts to fix the issue...

 

[Guyfrom916]

Ithink it is 30 cumulative days. But I still thought it wss 3 attempts to fix the issue...

Owner Manual states the days are not necessarily all at one time. In regards to the amount of attempts he has to be four or more attempts made for the same nonconformity.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Owners Manual is not by State Law, it’s just giving general information BUT Ford has to adhere to State Laws regarding Lemon Buy Back vehicle replacements or refunds.

Every State is different and Ford does not deviate from those individualized State Laws. S550 Owners electing to participate in the Ford RAV “Program” (as they refer to it) must know their State Lemon Laws, their rights, what fees/penalties are due (if applicable by State guidelines) and what is rightfully owed to them. The Owners Manual is basics, does not go into State by State detail. Also to note, the BBB Autoline does provide State Lemon Law info (by State), however you still must make sure that the info provided in the BBB Autoline Database is as current as the Laws on your State DMV/MVC website - NOT a 3rd party website either.

What may apply to a CA owner won’t apply to a MA owner, etc. however, Ford RAV process (frustrating as it is) remains the same...

I’ve been through it and have posted tons of info for others on here (search my User ID) as I’ve helped quite a few folks and posted examples of the RAV “worksheet” processes - as well as started a rather large Lemon Law thread too:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...or-are-filing-lemon-law-for-their-s550.59015/

Good luck with your Buy Back process - hang tight and don’t let the process frustrate you too much...

 

[Guyfrom916]

Owners Manual is not by State Law, it’s just giving general information BUT Ford has to adhere to State Laws regarding Lemon Buy Back vehicle replacements or refunds.

Every State is different and Ford does not deviate from those individualized State Laws. S550 Owners electing to participate in the Ford RAV “Program” (as they refer to it) must know their State Lemon Laws, their rights, what fees/penalties are due (if applicable by State guidelines) and what is rightfully owed to them. The Owners Manual is basics, does not go into State by State detail. Also to note, the BBB Autoline does provide State Lemon Law info (by State), however you still must make sure that the info provided in the BBB Autoline Database is as current as the Laws on your State DMV/MVC website - NOT a 3rd party website either.

What may apply to a CA owner won’t apply to a MA owner, etc. however, Ford RAV process (frustrating as it is) remains the same...

I’ve been through it and have posted tons of info for others on here (search my User ID) as I’ve helped quite a few folks and posted examples of the RAV “worksheet” processes - as well as started a rather large Lemon Law thread too:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...or-are-filing-lemon-law-for-their-s550.59015/

Good luck with your Buy Back process - hang tight and don’t let the process frustrate you too much...

Very true I haven’t looked up any other states laws on the Lemon Law beside Californias. I have been talking with a lawyer about my issue too. The only reason I brought up the owners manual because it pertains to California only so I would imagine wherever someone may have purchased their vehicle they would have the correct lemon law criteria in that manual, as this would be Fords determination of how they would identify if your vehicle was a lemon or not. I’ll defintently go check it out, thank you for sharing.

THANKS lol!

 

[Cobra Jet]

Very true I haven’t looked up any other states laws on the Lemon Law beside Californias. I have been talking with a lawyer about my issue too. The only reason I brought up the owners manual because it pertains to California only so I would imagine wherever someone may have purchased their vehicle they would have the correct lemon law criteria in that manual, as this would be Fords determination of how they would identify if your vehicle was a lemon or not. I’ll defintently go check it out, thank you for sharing.

THANKS lol!

Hey no problem!

I encourage ALL S550 Owners who are electing to go through the Buy Back process to post their experiences, as well as any specifics pertaining to their State Lemon Laws... it will only help others in a similar situation for future reference. So please do keep updating your progress!

 

[Cavpilot2k]

I’ve been through it and have posted tons of info for others on here (search my User ID) as I’ve helped quite a few folks and posted examples of the RAV “worksheet” processes - as well as started a rather large Lemon Law thread too:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...or-are-filing-lemon-law-for-their-s550.59015/

Good luck with your Buy Back process - hang tight and don’t let the process frustrate you too much...

Question for you:
I have been wanting a mustang GT for a long time, but have always shied away due to not-so-great handling characteristics and less-than-ideal interiors. Both of those have improved enough to pass my muster, and I want a new(er?) GT, and almost bought a lightly used '18 back in the summer. However, I am honestly hearing tons of bad stories on here about the new cars being loaded with problems. The fact that Ford has a buy-back "program" speaks volumes to the (lack of?) quality control. Everything from ticking engines to full-blown unfixable engine failures to manual transmissions that fail and evaporators that need replacing usually right after warranty expires.

All this makes me VERY gun-shy.
You own and have owned several mustangs (I see from your signature), and have even been through the RAV "program" before.
My question to you is this: why did you continue to buy them and why were you not turned off to the brand even after having to go through buyback?

I'm coming from BMWs, which are honestly prone to issues too, but rarely so much that they need to be reacquired, and in my experience, BMW and the dealerships bend over backward to fix these issues quickly and with as little hassle as possible (I've seen here where people have had their cars down for weeks on end at a dealership getting fixed - I've never seen more than a few days at BMW).

It just seems like Ford's QC is poor, which would be fine if they bent over backward to address the problems, but that doesnt seem to be the case - they seem to make it a hassle to get things fixed that should never have gone wrong in the first place.

So I pose again to you - what keeps you coming back?
Am I only seeing the very vocal minority on here and most of the cars are problem-free?
Am I not setting myself up for failure knowing I am buying a car that will probably have problems and those might be bad enough that the car need to be returned?

I really want a mustang, but I don't want a headache that is going to start costing me a ton of money as soon as the warranty is up either.

Help me out here.
Thanks,

 

[Guyfrom916]

I would like to address Cavpilot2k comment “they seem to make it a hassle to get things fixed that should never have gone wrong in the first place.” With my experience it wasn’t necessarily that it was a hassle for them to fix it, the things they were doing wasn’t fixing the problem because it wasn’t the parts that was causing the issue for the ticking sound. In addition to that it takes roughly 3-5 business days for parts to be ordered and an additional 1-2 days for install. My car would have never been fixed because it’s a design flaw on those Gen 3 coyote engines. My local dealership was willing to try anything but since it is a warranty job they have to answer to Ford hotline and do everything by the book in which do whatever the engineers tell them to do or to test. This is how things have been explained to me by different people and my service advisor at Ford. If they can get passed this engine design failure then I think it’s a good combo with the 10R80.

 

[Cavpilot2k]

I would like to address Cavpilot2k comment “they seem to make it a hassle to get things fixed that should never have gone wrong in the first place.” With my experience it wasn’t necessarily that it was a hassle for them to fix it, the things they were doing wasn’t fixing the problem because it wasn’t the parts that was causing the issue for the ticking sound. In addition to that it takes roughly 3-5 business days for parts to be ordered and an additional 1-2 days for install. My car would have never been fixed because it’s a design flaw on those Gen 3 coyote engines. My local dealership was willing to try anything but since it is a warranty job they have to answer to Ford hotline and do everything by the book in which do whatever the engineers tell them to do or to test. This is how things have been explained to me by different people and my service advisor at Ford. If they can get passed this engine design failure then I think it’s a good combo with the 10R80.

Yeah, I am now thinking of waiting to see if they fix the design flaw for the MY20 cars.
And I'm a MT guy as long as they are still available, so hopefully the new fixes on the MT are solid.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Question for you:
I have been wanting a mustang GT for a long time, but have always shied away due to not-so-great handling characteristics and less-than-ideal interiors. Both of those have improved enough to pass my muster, and I want a new(er?) GT, and almost bought a lightly used '18 back in the summer. However, I am honestly hearing tons of bad stories on here about the new cars being loaded with problems. The fact that Ford has a buy-back "program" speaks volumes to the (lack of?) quality control. Everything from ticking engines to full-blown unfixable engine failures to manual transmissions that fail and evaporators that need replacing usually right after warranty expires.

All this makes me VERY gun-shy.
You own and have owned several mustangs (I see from your signature), and have even been through the RAV "program" before.
My question to you is this: why did you continue to buy them and why were you not turned off to the brand even after having to go through buyback?

I'm coming from BMWs, which are honestly prone to issues too, but rarely so much that they need to be reacquired, and in my experience, BMW and the dealerships bend over backward to fix these issues quickly and with as little hassle as possible (I've seen here where people have had their cars down for weeks on end at a dealership getting fixed - I've never seen more than a few days at BMW).

It just seems like Ford's QC is poor, which would be fine if they bent over backward to address the problems, but that doesnt seem to be the case - they seem to make it a hassle to get things fixed that should never have gone wrong in the first place.

So I pose again to you - what keeps you coming back?
Am I only seeing the very vocal minority on here and most of the cars are problem-free?
Am I not setting myself up for failure knowing I am buying a car that will probably have problems and those might be bad enough that the car need to be returned?

I really want a mustang, but I don't want a headache that is going to start costing me a ton of money as soon as the warranty is up either.

Help me out here.
Thanks,

Great post and questions!

So here’s just a little more about my vehicle ownership - I’ve actually owned (20) Mustangs now, which includes my 94 Cobra and my 2018. Passion about Mustangs and the hobby is the driver (no pun intended) for getting yet another S550 after going through the Buy Back of my prior 2016.

I’ve also owned (2) BMW’s:
95 M3
91 318ic w/M42 engine (awesome little car)

I’ve also had:
2 Ford Broncos (87 and 94)
2007 Mercury Milan
2011 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
1992 Jeep Wrangler (6cyl)
2004 Ford Explorer

as well as other vehicles I just can’t remember at the moment... lol. So with that out of the way, I’ll move on to your next questions.


The RAV Buy Back process is strictly Ford terminology. Just so everyone knows, every vehicle manufacturer has some type of program available to consumers, however the program names are different and none of the Manufacturers “advertise” such. If there is an unsatisifed consumer who just bought a brand new Buick, he/she would deal with GM’s “Buy Back” Department and enter their program.

Regardless of what Buy Back Program is offered from X-vehicle manufacturer, all States have their own Lemon Laws, which have stipulations and guidelines that any Vehicle Manufacturer must follow. So be it Ford, GM, Mercedes, etc. they all are bound to State Lemon Laws that protect the Consumer.

Think of a vehicle as a product - most products do have limited warranties and most retailers selling the product do have stipulated return policies - policies where the consumer can either get a cash/credit refund OR a replacement of the same product (within reason). It’s the same process with vehicles (although I dumbed it down and simplified it for the analogy). The biggest difference is - MOST Consumers do not know that they can get relief from a Lemon vehicle. That relief is the Lemon Laws and the Vehicle Manufacturer Buy Back programs that are put into place.

Of course no vehicle manufacturer is going to advertise the program exists nor will any Dealer Salesman tell the consumer one exists. It’s buried in the vehicle owners manual in the form of (again for simplicity), “hey if you’re having problems, here’s the 800# to call and by the way, if you’re having further problems and still aren’t satisfied, there is the BBB Autoline”... but no where does it explicitly state that by State Lemon Laws, the consumer can either get a vehicle replacement OR a refund.

When I was having warranty issues with my prior 2016, I knew the Lemon Law existed - BUT as mentioned by @Guyfrom916, the Consumer must allow the warranty process to work first. Not only must the Consumer be patient, but per Ford Corp protocols, the Servicing Ford Dealership MUST attempt to repair the customer concern, regardless how many attempts it might be to get it right. Also these Service Centers are relying on the Ford Hotline, Ford Engineering, visits from Ford FSE’s and any other type of help for warranty repair work diagnostics and correct repairs. So TIME is where most of the frustration adds up not only for the Consumer but also for the Dealership because a bay is being occupied.

So I was pretty patient - and allowed Ford to do what was needed to try and attempt the repair, although much effort was made by the Dealership, the results were never successful (no fault by them). I could only go so far before I exercised my options and tried to find out about the BBB Autoline, Lemon Laws etc etc.

In my specific case, I did everything on my own without the BBB or any Attorney. I dealt directly with the Ford CSR with an established Case number. I had facts, documents, call logs, detailed work order logs, emails etc from start to finish - not to mention the 3x rule AND the 30 consecutive day rule on my favor... After the last attempt to resolve the issue failed (yet again), I had enough (mind you this was multiple repair attempts over the course of a year of ownership) and demanded (professionally and politely) a vehicle replacment - NOT 100% aware of what I would be getting into and not having any real facts about the RAV process to my disposal. There was very limited info online and what was online was contradictory where in many instances didn’t apply to my State Lemon Law.

The RAV process was frustrating, but with patience and perseverance, I pushed through the tedious and sometimes stressful process. So any consumer can take on X-vehicle manufacturer and it can be done without the BBB or Attorney IF your claim is backed up by facts AND you’re within your State’s Lemon Law guidelines. If you’re beyond the State Lemon Law deadlines, you could be SOL, unless you want to get an Attorney and try your odds (and that could be costly depending on Case facts and Attorney).

So back to your question of why another S550, despite going through what I did with my prior 2016 and still seeing posts from others about this or that problems?

Because these vehicles are mass produced - many coming off the line are great vehicles and not every single S550 is problematic or a “Lemon”. Did I take a chance on the vehicle replacement and getting into a 2018? Probably to some it sounds crazy to do - but I’m not the only one who went into another S550 after experiencing a Lemon’d S550. My 2018 is worlds apart from my prior 2016 in every way... and even though the RAV process was not the best experience, the results (for me) paid off.

For those wondering, that is the first (and hopefully last) time I have had to do a new vehicle Lemon Buy Back - in nearly 30 years of vehicle ownership.

2 things:
1) Ford Quality, regardless of product is just as good as the next vehicle Manufacturer’s products and cannot be judged or reflective of what is seen posted online from those who have gone through a Buy Back or may be going through warranty work. You can visit any auto forum or google to infinity and find similar stories, complaints, issues, etc. There’s going to be products of the same year/make/model that will never have any issues and there’s gonna be the Lemons, it’s just the nature of the beast with mass production. Was I ticked as a new 2016 owner - sure, but that’s to be expected after buying a brand new car and having to go through excessive warranty repairs.

2) “The Sky is Falling” syndrome. Some posts are indicative of actual problems backed up by facts or diagnostic findings. Others are from owners who hear (insert noise here) or feel (insert vibe here) or think (insert it’s the same model year here) and panic thinking their vehicle is suffering from the factual findings of others... when in many instances - it’s just a normal event, but the vehicle owner’s senses are heightened due to reading into the numerous online threads... I’m sure some understand this statement, others will disagree.


My angle and posts provided on this site are to provide users with information that will help them to make an informed decision or guide them through a process or repair. I’m an advocate for folks who may be dealing with redundant repairs and may resort to the route of a Buy Back.

You as a Consumer need to make a decision based on your research, be it forums, talking with actual owners to get their experiences, consumer websites/magazines, or power of googling. Don’t let my or anyone’s posts sway your decision making process one way or the other - because what you are seeing on this site alone are issues most likely in the minority. Put it this way, Ford just recently built the 10 MILLIONTH Mustang since inception, do you see 10 Million Mustang Lemons?

 

[20mustang16]

I bought a brand new 2018 Mustang GT (10 speed auto) off showroom floor on in May of 2018. It is not a performance pack but does come with Sync 3 and the driveability modes. I enjoyed this car until mid-late September until I received a check engine light on the car. By this time I bought Eibach Sportline lowering springs, deleted the resonator, and bought 20in Niche’s. Nearly to 8,000 miles on the vehicle I call my local Ford dealership to inform them of the issue. I scheduled an appointment for the following Monday and the check engine light is off, tech tells me to come back when light comes on to run the obd 2 codes. Two days later on my way to get lunch light comes on so I take the car in on October 10th at 8,028 miles.

Engine was misfiring and the tech heard an engine ticking sound coming from motor. Everything from there is history. They try to change lifters, followers, cams and even cylinder heads. After 30 days of waiting for the dealership service department to fix my car I decide to Lemon law the car based on my states laws (California). It does not have to be 3-4 attempts or even 30 consecutive days, just FYI.

Now I am dealing with the Reacquired Vehcicle Department, which is the worst. The communication since day 1 with my car being in the shop has been a terrible and painfully long experience. I have so much to write on the situation I had to endure from Ford Motor Company and I feel like I’m not being treated like someone who just spent over $40k on their product.

I started this chat if anybody has questions and I can provide any insight I can. I am also on YouTube: Nine One Six Blvck

Hi I have special ordered 2019 pp2 gt I got the car on June 15 th it took 2 long months to get here so July 18th I fired it up to go wash it a airbag light came on I was like damn oh well I'll take it in on Monday to check it out dropped it off on Monday am got a call Thursday saying that a rearward wiring loom was the problem then the asked me did I change the rear back up light I said yes it's a diode dynamics 4th break light but it was in my 2016 gt for 3 yrs not one problem it's a factory plug in play piece no splicing or any of that shit so the dealership said it was because of the light bulb I was like ok it's not but take it out and clear the code , and I'll be on way got almost home the airbag , blind spot, hill assets, lights came on again I have the 401a digital cluster in the car so it was way obvious , took it back took a mileage photo of the lights dropped it again they called me and said they couldn't get the car to repeat the issue , so picked it up drove almost home and powertrain wrench comes on the all same lights light up and my gear selector mode is gone no active exhaust mode and now it dyes when I come to a stop , so took it back again grabbed a quality control guy took him for a ride it dyed 3 times with him in the car but no lights yet so I leave the car again I have the Ford connect app guess what a notification comes up on my phone all the errors come up when they moved my car after I left I have 15 saved errors saved on phone to show and prove there's more then a lightbulb causing this it's been in the shop now for 27 days now they ordered a shift shaft and a sensor to fix it they tell me, I'm thinking it's not gonna fix the stalling and the electrical issue but try it I'm gathering my info at this point , also I brought the car in with 340 miles on it to the dealership they put 100 miles trying to figure out the issue and I've made my first payment with it sitting in there back lot broke . I guess they think them giving me a rental pos fusion eco will make it all good not ! I want my car back and no scents of urgency to get it fixed I'm reaching out now one more issue after I get this car back and I'm done with it .this freaking has ruined my new car experience that's for sure.

 

[CB18]

My buy back process was pretty quick and painless. Maybe I got a good case worker. And those people had nothing to do with building the car. They have to listen to peoples problems 40 hours per week. Although they chose their job. Politeness goes a long way.

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