Cadillac ATS Coupe vs Mustang Ecoboost

[thePill]

So that's what is has come down to? A 4 series has better space efficiency than a Mustang...Good God really! Since the 4 is a 2-door coupe of the 3 series that is the single most important and volume leading BMW car with tremendous R&D (and priced accordingly)...not really surprising.

On the other hand, I expect to take delivery of a beautiful Competition Orange 2015 MustangEB, PP & A6 for a negotiated $26.5. I am sorry, but which is the brilliant car?

He didn't buy a Mustang because it gained 87lbs... On the other hand, he would rather invest his money in a car that in fact lost weight BUT, still remains heavier than the S550.

Sounds reasonable to me...

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[w3rkn]

@Phil

You fail to completely understand that the performance gap between the Mustang GT and all possible competitor increased greatly in the current generation.

It doesn't matter what datapoint you pick, it got worse for the Mustang across the board.

The previous gen M3 coupe was heavier than the Mustang GT and had less power. The current M3/M4 got 180lbs lighter, has a ton, just a tremendous ton of power under the curve, and is now in a different performance league from the S550 Mustang GT.

Yes, these are not direct price competitors (though they are the top 2 coupes I look at), but are valid datapoints.

Even the aging challengers with the new engines, the new 8-speed, improved their relative performance vs the GT.

Everywhere you look you see cars getting massive power increases (particularly power under the curve in the top 1/3 of the rev range that counts), improved transmission, etc.

The Mustang GT gained weight, barely got a power increase, no improvement in transmission shift times. That is like standing still or barely moving, while the competition is at full throttle.

Yes, it is a good-looking car. Yes its interior, ride, etc improved. But it did not move the needle in its favor performance wise (power-weight, acceleration, braking distances, auto-shifting speed), nothing really.

"...worse for the Mustang across the board."


I think you fail to understand, that YOUR metrics are skewed, because the M3 (ie M4) has moved way upscale and bigger than in the past. The Mustang GT can still be had for $33~36,000.

The M3 starts @ $62,000.


Your whole post would make sense, if it wasn't for the GT350, GT350R & Mustang GT announcements. If you need more than those three, might want to check the porsche bin.

 

[thePill]

If the Mustang is too heavy, what other car is lighter than the '15 GTTP and starts at a lower MSRP and performs better???

Go ahead... I'll wait...

...and so will you, on a car that fits the criteria you are searching for. The ATS nor 6th Gen Camaro will...

 

[MrPoopALot]

Pill, it's apparent that you absolutely hate GM. Everything you say about the company is negative, whether it's warranted or not. Pretty much everything you say about Ford is a bunch of pumping.

No sure how many of your predictions come true as you change them all the time. Your prediction was that the EB Mustang would weigh 3,300 pounds and get 36 mpg.. How did that work out?

Give some credit to GM. They had a Frankenstein platform to work with and actually made it perform well. 6th gen Camaro will be a solid improvement (why else would one come out?) and will fix the shortcomings. Not sure if you've paid attention, but GM has been putting out some stellar products the last few years.

 

[Shawnski]

Give some credit to GM. They had a Frankenstein platform to work with and actually made it perform well. 6th gen Camaro will be a solid improvement (why else would one come out?) and will fix the shortcomings. Not sure if you've paid attention, but GM has been putting out some stellar products the last few years.

Why should anyone have to give a "crap" about GM MrPoopALot? I find it interesting that certain people here (with last gen 'Stangs) are somehow worried about the street credibility of the new Mustang and what GM will be doing next year etc.

Make a hay while the sun shines, better brakes, better suspension, better interior, better looks IMO. Put a blower on the oh-so-inadequate '15 GT (boohoo) next year if you have an inferiority complex.

 

[mustangletback]

Pill, it's apparent that you absolutely hate GM. Everything you say about the company is negative, whether it's warranted or not. Pretty much everything you say about Ford is a bunch of pumping.

No sure how many of your predictions come true as you change them all the time. Your prediction was that the EB Mustang would weigh 3,300 pounds and get 36 mpg.. How did that work out?

Give some credit to GM. They had a Frankenstein platform to work with and actually made it perform well. 6th gen Camaro will be a solid improvement (why else would one come out?) and will fix the shortcomings. Not sure if you've paid attention, but GM has been putting out some stellar products the last few years.

i dont think THE PILL hates Garbage Motors,he just puts info. out there that he gets,and or feels.some say i hate the Gigantic Mistake,well i do.its like boxing,or your favorite team.if they win the right way,so be it.gm has manipulated racing for years.having the rules bent or changed to help them out.the bailout,look at the millions of dollars that they sent over to china.there is a video is gm becoming china motors.they use alot of ringer cars to get those great numbers that they throw out as fact,BUT nobody can ever get close to those numbers.look at zl1,gm said it could do 11s all day,but they forgot to say they got those 11s all day on a tire that was not from the factory.the list goes on and on.the constant bs that gm puts out is just insane.it is my belief that there is one true american company left,and thats FORD.AMERICA is changing and its not in a good way.there is a WAR coming in the auto industry.it was said years ago that if there are 30 car companies now,in the near future that number will decrease.lately the ceo of fiat has said over and over companies are gonna have to come together,merge,or what ever you want to call it to SHARE the COST of developing new cars.we know what that means.when things fall apart again i will root for FORD to carry on.just my 2cents.:ford:

 

[traxiii]

Last time I checked this was a Ford Mustang forum, and most of us have no use for government motors, and their burning ignition switches and such.

 

[MrPoopALot]

Why should anyone have to give a "crap" about GM MrPoopALot? I find it interesting that certain people here (with last gen 'Stangs) are somehow worried about the street credibility of the new Mustang and what GM will be doing next year etc.

Make a hay while the sun shines, better brakes, better suspension, better interior, better looks IMO. Put a blower on the oh-so-inadequate '15 GT (boohoo) next year if you have an inferiority complex.

Looks like people do give a crap as some talk crap about other brands all day. What's the point?

Wouldn't you expect the 15 Mustang to be better than a 5th generation one? It is better, but not by as much as the people with one claim. I think a lot of every day driving and people thinking it's a world apart is the "newness" factor.

The Mustang isn't a world apart from the previous gen and the Camaro won't be either. They both have or will improve where previous gen complaints came in. Honestly, I don't even know what you're babbling about in your post.

Even though this is a Mustang site, I find it ridiculous how people try to make the other cars look like they're total pieces of shit or don't even compete. They're not a Camry or a Civic. The Camaro is stiff competition to the Mustang and will be more so this gen. If you have any common sense, there is no reason to believe otherwise.

All the Pill does is talk crap about the Camaro all day. Why so infatuated with it? He said the EB Mustang would weigh 3,300 pounds. I'll admit, he seems like he knows what he's taking about in some posts, but his bias clouds his judgments and predictions.

 

[02gtnh]

Looks like people do give a crap as some talk crap about other brands all day. What's the point?

Wouldn't you expect the 15 Mustang to be better than a 5th generation one? It is better, but not by as much as the people with one claim. I think a lot of every day driving and people thinking it's a world apart is the "newness" factor.

The Mustang isn't a world apart from the previous gen and the Camaro won't be either. They both have or will improve where previous gen complaints came in. Honestly, I don't even know what you're babbling about in your post.

Even though this is a Mustang site, I find it ridiculous how people try to make the other cars look like they're total pieces of shit or don't even compete. They're not a Camry or a Civic. The Camaro is stiff competition to the Mustang and will be more so this gen. If you have any common sense, there is no reason to believe otherwise.

All the Pill does is talk crap about the Camaro all day. Why so infatuated with it? He said the EB Mustang would weigh 3,300 pounds. I'll admit, he seems like he knows what he's taking about in some posts, but his bias clouds his judgments and predictions.

I'm a car guy and could not agree anymore. I raced atv's for many years and saw the same bashing on all sites. I was hoping getting on pony cars sites there would be more maturity, but so far it isn't much better.

 

[1320']

On one note...

It does seem that slowly reality is starting to settle over in the Camaro6 camp that Alpha may not be the weight saver that everyone thought it was going to be. Even Number 3, a GM faithful true believer till the end, is warning people not to expect anything better than about 3,700-3,750lbs for a manual 1SS.

Heck they just now have accepted that Alpha, in its current form in the ATS, cannot support a V8 and now are having to compare it more to the CTS.

 

[02gtnh]

On one note...

It does seem that slowly reality is starting to settle over in the Camaro6 camp that Alpha may not be the weight saver that everyone thought it was going to be. Even Number 3, a GM faithful true believer till the end, is warning people not to expect anything better than about 3,700-3,750lbs for a manual 1SS.

Heck they just now have accepted that Alpha, in its current form in the ATS, cannot support a V8 and now are having to compare it more to the CTS.

I think seeing the days of these types of affordable muscle cars being below 3700lbs is a thing of the past. With all the safety and other restrictions it will be tuff to make these cars light and yet affordable.

 

[thePill]

All the Pill does is talk crap about the Camaro all day. Why so infatuated with it? He said the EB Mustang would weigh 3,300 pounds. I'll admit, he seems like he knows what he's taking about in some posts, but his bias clouds his judgments and predictions.

Come here to cry?

You have been robbed, lie to and cheated on many occasion... I don't care if you are a Camaro fan, Chevy fan. A manufacturer shouldn't use deception as a marketing tool. Until they stop, people will bash them all day, everyday...

 

[MrPoopALot]

Come here to cry?

You have been robbed, lie to and cheated on many occasion... I don't care if you are a Camaro fan, Chevy fan. A manufacturer shouldn't use deception as a marketing tool. Until they stop, people will bash them all day, everyday...

I have nothing to cry about. I just like to point out my observations, Mr. 3,300 pound 36 mpg ecoboost Mustang.

I haven't been lied to or cheated by anything car related. GM lies? If so, Ford does as well, or they both at the very least bend the truth.

 

[thePill]

I have nothing to cry about. I just like to point out my observations, Mr. 3,300 pound 36 mpg ecoboost Mustang.

I haven't been lied to or cheated by anything car related. GM lies? If so, Ford does as well, or they both at the very least bend the truth.

Hey, I never said it would be perfect. Besides, we may yet see the S550 lose weight on down this Gen.

It was smaller, and it does appear lighter BUT, look at the content. Who, I ask you, could have predicted over 200lbs of content being added.

Don't come belly aching to us here, from the Capitol Talk-Sh!t and Ban people Camaro5. Serves them right... to be blindsided every year and made to look the fool.

Bending the truth? How about stopping the stopwatch at the finish line before you market your piece of sh!t. There isn't a single bird singing over there now is there?

 

[MrPoopALot]

The Mustang very well might lose weight this gen. I can't think of anything else Ford needs to add that would make it gain weight. I also don't see the 6th gen Camaro weighing what it does with the 5th gen. Camaro had a few things in 5th gen that Mustang didn't and added for 6th.. Camaro had more airbags and IRS. The platform was big and fat.

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