C8=S650 Tell Ford What You Want

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
10,474
Reaction score
5,569
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Fiesta
Taking today's marketplace into account I do believe that i am a realist. I worked for a manufacturer for 24 years so I know a little about the process. There are huge costs involved in making something a little this and a little that. The S550 was a major change for Ford and the $50K price that we were all complaining about in 2015 now seems like no big deal. Will Ford plan another major change for the S650. Maybe but I doubt it will be in the direction we would all like to see. If you were Ford, what would you make? A 3600 lb. crossover SUV or a 3000 lb. 2+2 coupe. Of course we want the latter but the beancounters will want the SUV. Now that's reality.
I believe that cost is a barrier to making changes. I agree with that and momentum/not wanting to make changes unless necessary are barriers to the Mustang even becoming a couple hundred pounds lighter.

I doubt a well-designed modern V8 car can get to 3,000 lbs and be affordable, but 3500 or lower would be a win in my opinion.





Advertisement

 

Big Boss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
707
Reaction score
220
Location
Outer Heaven
Vehicle(s)
Mazda6
I believe that cost is a barrier to making changes. I agree with that and momentum/not wanting to make changes unless necessary are barriers to the Mustang even becoming a couple hundred pounds lighter.

I doubt a well-designed modern V8 car can get to 3,000 lbs and be affordable, but 3500 or lower would be a win in my opinion.
Unfortunately cars are just getting bigger and heavier. A C7 Z51 weighed 3400 pounds and change. I don't think they can get a mustang down to corvette weight levels
 

Benjj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
47
Reaction score
22
Location
AZ
Vehicle(s)
Camero
I would want the Mustang to keep its own platform and not be built on the explorer’s platform. All I see coming this next gen is increased size and weight. The Mustang isn’t selling like the f150 and I don’t think hackett sees the value in extensive use of lighter weight materials for weight management.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
10,474
Reaction score
5,569
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Fiesta
Unfortunately cars are just getting bigger and heavier. A C7 Z51 weighed 3400 pounds and change. I don't think they can get a mustang down to corvette weight levels
Yes - somewhere between 3400 and 3500 (I've seen a few different numbers). But remember the C7 has the removable top - all of them have it, so it's necessarily heavier just because every single Corvette made has a convertible type weight penalty. Just that single factor is probably 100 - 200 lbs. of additional stiffening required in the body.

So, I would 100% agree that the Mustang convertible probably won't get to that weight, it should be fairly easy to get down to 3500 or so with the Mustang. Like I said before, unlikely but it would be awesome if they did it.

I think the growing weights are also a reflection of the public and what most of the public wants. Many buyers don't care what the weight of the car is, but they absolutely know how much power it makes. So the car companies continue to work to add power and don't really try to reduce weight.
 

Big Boss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
707
Reaction score
220
Location
Outer Heaven
Vehicle(s)
Mazda6
Yes - somewhere between 3400 and 3500 (I've seen a few different numbers). But remember the C7 has the removable top - all of them have it, so it's necessarily heavier just because every single Corvette made has a convertible type weight penalty. Just that single factor is probably 100 - 200 lbs. of additional stiffening required in the body.

So, I would 100% agree that the Mustang convertible probably won't get to that weight, it should be fairly easy to get down to 3500 or so with the Mustang. Like I said before, unlikely but it would be awesome if they did it.

I think the growing weights are also a reflection of the public and what most of the public wants. Many buyers don't care what the weight of the car is, but they absolutely know how much power it makes. So the car companies continue to work to add power and don't really try to reduce weight.
Hopefully someone smarter than me can chime in but part of the reason cars are getting bigger is something to do with emissions. Like if the wheelbase or overall length or something is bigger then it can have a larger carbon footprint or something
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
10,474
Reaction score
5,569
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Fiesta
Hopefully someone smarter than me can chime in but part of the reason cars are getting bigger is something to do with emissions. Like if the wheelbase or overall length or something is bigger then it can have a larger carbon footprint or something
I've heard that as well. Typical government stupidity.
 

Cardude99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
2,476
Reaction score
1,052
Location
Phoenix, AZ
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ecoboost
Cut the weight for a loaded GT to 3650 lbs.

Smaller ecoboost v8 with more tq and hp

Better infotainment

More carbon fiber options

Drive mode switches on the steering wheel

The ability to customize the driving modes

Better seat belt position.

More room to fit with a helmet

DCT

Less use of plastic, use more premium materials, I don't care if it costs more. Make it optional

PP2 option for DCT

More agressive styling.

More color options, interior, calipers, body, wheels ect...
 
OP

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
1,969
Reaction score
1,541
Location
Southeast
First Name
Jay
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT 10 Gear
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #129
Drive mode switches on the steering wheel

The ability to customize the driving modes
These are great ideas and seem pretty easy to implement.

I push that drive mode button all the time.
 

Cardude99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
2,476
Reaction score
1,052
Location
Phoenix, AZ
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ecoboost
These are great ideas and seem pretty easy to implement.

I push that drive mode button all the time.
Ya I hate reaching over. It's in a very awkward spot almost as if it's for the passenger to operate
 

wildcatgoal

@sirboom_photography
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
6,597
Reaction score
2,479
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
TBD
Redo the IRS... it's average, at best.
Improve build quality -- the rattles and wearing leather is unacceptable.
If the MT-82 is used again, burn the mother f'er down!
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
10,474
Reaction score
5,569
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Fiesta
Redo the IRS... it's average, at best.
Improve build quality -- the rattles and wearing leather is unacceptable.
If the MT-82 is used again, burn the mother f'er down!
Huh, everything you said here I disagree with. To me the IRS is fine. What don't you like about it? I really think handling is impressive. I've heard drag race people would like the stick axle back, but for every day driving and road course work it seems to me the current IRS is quite good.

I also haven't noticed rapidly wearing leather. I'm a large person and I would think if the material was poor I would have had problems, but I never did.

And I like the MT-82. I think the Tremec box in the GT350 is a little better, but there wasn't anything that bad about the MT-82. I think for quick shifting the MT-82 is actually a little better than the Tremec.
 

wildcatgoal

@sirboom_photography
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
6,597
Reaction score
2,479
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
TBD
Huh, everything you said here I disagree with. To me the IRS is fine. What don't you like about it? I really think handling is impressive. I've heard drag race people would like the stick axle back, but for every day driving and road course work it seems to me the current IRS is quite good.

I also haven't noticed rapidly wearing leather. I'm a large person and I would think if the material was poor I would have had problems, but I never did.

And I like the MT-82. I think the Tremec box in the GT350 is a little better, but there wasn't anything that bad about the MT-82. I think for quick shifting the MT-82 is actually a little better than the Tremec.
Having worked extensively on my IRS, including removing the entire substructure a few times, I find it to be excessively heavy and I dislike the fact that, even stock, the rear doesn't have particularly great wheel travel before you're hitting bumpstops (when it certainly could). I'm obviously not a certified suspension engineer, but this IRS is an adapted corporate unit you'll find in effectively same form in the back of a Fusion. It is difficult to tame the rear end - it's design requires an extremely stiff spring due to the springs being inset so far, and therefore requires careful shock design and valving. From day one, many of us noticed the bouncy rear end on these cars, even after replacing springs and shocks with better aftermarket units. This effect was typically eliminated when a true coilover was introduced (a quality unit). My preference would have been to have a coilover-based rear suspension from the factory. Like I said, it's average - an average IRS developed cheaply for a mass-produced car. But with the 2018+ they did nothing to improve common complaints. Ideally they do in the future.

My leather, on the driver's seat, started to wear within 5000 miles. I had the perforated heated/cooled seats (which was a mistake in the first place) but I saw Recaro seats degrade relatively quickly, too, especially the left hip support on the driver's side (due to getting in and out of the car). Good leather, though, will not crack or lose the "leather surface and you see what's underneath", it will just wear. I have seen quite a few 30K miles or less Recaro mustangs with cracking "leather" in that location, not to mention the butt area. On top of this, I've noticed a lot of cloth seats lose the butt padding entirely, especially if the driver is of the larger variety. I had to move a friend of mine's car with the standard cloth seats and the bottom was as hard as a rock at 15K miles. Unacceptable. At the time I had a Toyota Camry with pleather and cloth seats and 80K miles. There was so little wear I asked the previous owner if he replaced the seat. That kind of durability is what we deserve.

The MT-82 isn't the worst transmission in the world. I think if they supplied it with a transmission mounted shifter, it would be better. Obviously Ford isn't going to supply an overbuilt transmission so you can add 200 hp without concern, but the made it even worse and notable unreliable with the 2018+ cars with the shift forks issue. I simply don't understand why. In order to get the kind of refined shift I expect from a modern car, I had to install an MGW shifter. My $43K MSRP car should have felt like a $43K MSRP car. On top of this, it's really quite sad that the driveline would clunk enough to shift the car slightly forward when you put the car in 1st gear with the clutch depressed. That's something that could have and should have been engineered out. I've never driven a stick shift car that did that. I'm sure they exist, but I've driven quite a few stick shift cars. I've never noticed that on a Tremec-equipped GT350 or Camaro. And that Tremec, especially on track, had better feel and didn't roast to >300* (thanks to provisions for cooling, which the MT82 doesn't have). I have never had a single issue quick shifting a GT350 with the stock shifter. Once I installed the MGW to my MT82, shifting was next to perfect and it is the first mod I should have done.
 

Advertisement

Status
Not open for further replies.




 
207 - CSWC


Advertisement
Top