Anybody seen the LA news today?

[sk47]

Printed solar panels tested before taking Tesla on 9,400-mile journey | Watch (msn.com)



Hello; it seems the object of this is to see if the trip can be made charging the batteries with flexible solar panels. There appear to be 18 such panels with each being 59 feet long?? They only show one in the video so I am not sure.

I guess the plan is to unroll the panels and let the sun charge the car. One such panel would be hard enough to deal with. I may be mistaken about using 18 panels as that would take up a lot of ground space.

Not many details. I am pretty confident the charging will be during the day. So they may only drive at night? Perhaps charge one day and drive the next?

If 18 panels are used the question of where all 18 would be carried comes to mind. The one shown in the video appeared sizeable. Not clear that 18 could fit in the car. Perhaps the panels are carried in a support truck???

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[Calif-GT500]

EV or ICE will continue to evolve over the next couple of decades for sure. I can't imagine ICE vehicles will be around forever though. EV or Hydrogen or the next gen fuel source will ultimately replace ICE at some point.

But I do know this . . .we were told we'd have flying cars by this time and I didn't believe it possible until I bought a 2020 GT500. But damn these things do FLY!

 

[sk47]

Hello; From your first link.

"About 20 percent of the total TARP funds — $80 billion — went to bail out General Motors and Chrysler. As described in an account of the crisis, “Detroit Back From the Brink,” by Chicago Fed economists Thomas H. Klier and James Rubenstein, the automakers were headed for insolvency as auto sales plummeted. The government authorized emergency loans so the companies could continue paying bills and making payroll, then go through a structured bankruptcy process and quickly return to production. Chrysler emerged as a newly merged company with Italian-based Fiat. Ford did not ask for a government bailout, but received other financial assistance. Ford supported the GM and Chrysler bailouts to protect its supply chain and dealer network."

Thing is Ford did not ask for nor take the same bailout money as GM and Chrysler. You got me on the "other financial assistance" I suppose. A detail I am not familiar with. It would seem the statement Ford did not take the bailout is correct. Takes a fair amount of spin to imply that other financial assistance is the same as a bailout.

I have not looked at the other links as yet.

Hello; I went back and did an edit in my previous post #132 to make my comment more correct after finding out new information.

 

[sk47]

EV or ICE will continue to evolve over the next couple of decades for sure. I can't imagine ICE vehicles will be around forever though. EV or Hydrogen or the next gen fuel source will ultimately replace ICE at some point.

But I do know this . . .we were told we'd have flying cars by this time and I didn't believe it possible until I bought a 2020 GT500. But damn these things do FLY!

Hello; fossil fuels such as coal and oil take a long time to form and last I knew only happens in specific circumstances. Not exactly rare circumstances as witnessed by the huge amounts found so far. That said it seems unlikely reserves are being created at the same rate as they are being recovered. In some time frame the practical amounts we are able to recover will be below the level we currently use. Not exactly that oil and coal will be all gone. So the fact sems to be oil will not be an ongoing fuel source for all time.
That a different energy source for things such a transportation will be needed seems very likely. That need to move on to alternatives is not in serious question. It is the artificial push currently which is part of the problem. At this point an EV is a limited replacement for the ICE in several respects. Some very critical issues yet to be addressed which are not small things.
That the EV issues may someday be ironed out seems possible but is not certain. I find the plan to dismantle working ICE infrastructure and replacing it with questionable EV, solar and wind to be very risky.
As we recently learned from the lockdowns during the pandemic it is not so simple to shutdown working parts of an economy and then later start them up again. There are big IF's surrounding EV's, the grids, solar and wind it terms of them being able to carry the loads required.

I am all for those keen on EV's to give them a go and i do hope things work out. But as a just in case I want the current well tested and working ICE infrastructure to be allowed to continue.

 

[gone_n_60]

Hello; fossil fuels such as coal and oil take a long time to form and last I knew only happens in specific circumstances. Not exactly rare circumstances as witnessed by the huge amounts found so far. That said it seems unlikely reserves are being created at the same rate as they are being recovered. In some time frame the practical amounts we are able to recover will be below the level we currently use. Not exactly that oil and coal will be all gone. So the fact sems to be oil will not be an ongoing fuel source for all time.
That a different energy source for things such a transportation will be needed seems very likely. That need to move on to alternatives is not in serious question. It is the artificial push currently which is part of the problem. At this point an EV is a limited replacement for the ICE in several respects. Some very critical issues yet to be addressed which are not small things.
That the EV issues may someday be ironed out seems possible but is not certain. I find the plan to dismantle working ICE infrastructure and replacing it with questionable EV, solar and wind to be very risky.
As we recently learned from the lockdowns during the pandemic it is not so simple to shutdown working parts of an economy and then later start them up again. There are big IF's surrounding EV's, the grids, solar and wind it terms of them being able to carry the loads required.

I am all for those keen on EV's to give them a go and i do hope things work out. But as a just in case I want the current well tested and working ICE infrastructure to be allowed to continue.

Yeah thinking of how bad things got during Covid lockdowns, war in Ukraine, supply chain crap, maybe it's time to think of getting a real horse or mule instead of another Mustang? it's only about a 20 minute drive to be in horse farm country here. hay's cheap..?

 

[sk47]

Yeah thinking of how bad things got during Covid lockdowns, war in Ukraine, supply chain crap, maybe it's time to think of getting a real horse or mule instead of another Mustang? it's only about a 20 minute drive to be in horse farm country here. hay's cheap..?

Hello; No horse for me. I will try a bicycle. An irony is one of the reasons I decide to buy my current home was because there was a good road with a wide paved shoulder in front of the house. I could and did ride a bicycle a lot. The TDOT redid the road last year. Made it into a two lane with a center turn lane. Took away the nice wide shoulders. I can ride on the shoulder but it is like threading a needle. In some spots such as a bridge the shoulder is even more narrow. In other places the guardrail is too close to the road. The new road is very dangerous for a bicycle now. It is one of the two busiest roads in the county so always lots of traffic.
In the past i could turn into my driveway safely in my car/truck. The old wide shoulder was wide enough so i could be completely out of the driving lane. Now I have to hope those coming up behind do not plow into me as i have to be in the driving lane to slow and turn. If there are cars behind me as i approach my home I turn off to a side road a half mile early and swing around to approach the house from the other direction. That way i can use the turn lane and be more safe.

 

[Calif-GT500]

Yeah thinking of how bad things got during Covid lockdowns, war in Ukraine, supply chain crap, maybe it's time to think of getting a real horse or mule instead of another Mustang? it's only about a 20 minute drive to be in horse farm country here. hay's cheap..?

I'm no horse expert but I bet it's hard to get them to sit still while you bolt on Carbon Fiber parts!

 

[traxiii]

Nobody is saying they are perfect. But as stated a bit earlier, the advent of cars didn’t catch on right away for all the same reasons. Everyone had horses and buggies. The Model A barely did 15 mph downhill with a tail-wind and required a hand crank to start. But, time and technology addressed those issues.
And if you think the government has never subsidized automobiles you haven’t read any history on the subject. I mean hell, the government just bailed out the big 3 automakers just over a decade ago.

You don't know jack about the Model A, which could easily do over 50mph, had electric starters and came after the Model T. The Model T had hand crank starting, but could run with a horse and carry more than a buggie. The early cars, unlike EVs were not subsidized by the government. Fueling stations were built by entrepreneurs and the new oil companies, and Henry Ford made cars affordable for most families. He used innovation to make Model T's using his new assembly line, not with government subsidies.

Local governments built better roads because people demanded them as cars became more common. The Federal Government created the Interstates to connect the country mostly for trucking and defense reasons. Lastly, Ford was not bailed out. GM was mostly gifted to the UAW by the regime in power during the "crisis" and what was left of Chrysler got picked up by Fiat.

 

[Evolvd]

You don't know jack about the Model A, which could easily do over 50mph, had electric starters and came after the Model T. The Model T had hand crank starting, but could run with a horse and carry more than a buggie. The early cars, unlike EVs were not subsidized by the government. Fueling stations were built by entrepreneurs and the new oil companies, and Henry Ford made cars affordable for most families. He used innovation to make Model T's using his new assembly line, not with government subsidies.

Local governments built better roads because people demanded them as cars became more common. The Federal Government created the Interstates to connect the country mostly for trucking and defense reasons. Lastly, Ford was not bailed out. GM was mostly gifted to the UAW by the regime in power during the "crisis" and what was left of Chrysler got picked up by Fiat.

You’re right, I don’t know jack about model As, but the point of my response is still the same, you nitpicking it doesn’t change facts that early model cars weren’t anything like they are today just like EVs from 2000 aren’t anything like today. I’m face-palming having to explain this.
And as far as bailouts, potato potato. Ford took money from the Government during the bailout. Was it TARP, no. But the point, which you missed again, is that all car companies are subsidized in some form or fashion by the government at some point…just like EVs are.

Next person who wants to nitpick my generalizations gets crayon drawings so it’s dumbed down enough to understand. Some of y’all are too busy trying to pick apart my argument that y’all missed the forest through the trees. It’s like arguing with my kids

 

[sk47]

You’re right, I don’t know jack about model As, but the point of my response is still the same, you nitpicking it doesn’t change facts that early model cars weren’t anything like they are today just like EVs from 2000 aren’t anything like today. I’m face-palming having to explain this.
And as far as bailouts, potato potato. Ford took money from the Government during the bailout. Was it TARP, no. But the point, which you missed again, is that all car companies are subsidized in some form or fashion by the government at some point…just like EVs are.

Next person who wants to nitpick my generalizations gets crayon drawings so it’s dumbed down enough to understand. Some of y’all are too busy trying to pick apart my argument that y’all missed the forest through the trees. It’s like arguing with my kids


...."And if you think the government has never subsidized automobiles you haven’t read any history on the subject. I mean hell, the government just bailed out the big 3 automakers just over a decade ago."

Hello; interesting approach. Were it that you get to control the content you would then always win the point. Unfortunately you do not get to decide the rules of this discussion. By that I mean what you call "nitpicking" are important details to others.
An irony but not the only one so far is that you recently accused me of being vague in my comments. I guess you see it that way. More often I am accused of being too long winded and detail oriented.

The evolution of the automobile did not, to the best of my knowledge, have an episode where state, federal and local governments made laws/rulings prematurely to get rid of using a horse. The utility and practicality of the ICE slowly proved itself and the infrastructure followed demand.

In other posts I have written that back in 2001 I was shopping for a new car. I looked at the hybrid offerings of the time and decided to pass. That was over twenty years ago. A modern hybrid is now a much better vehicle. I did test drive a Toyota Prius a couple of years or so ago. I could have lived with it as practical but uninspiring basic transportation. It was the significant extra cost over an equivalent ICE and the sense of driving an appliance which stopped me. I decided to keep my 2001 Sentra SE and started looking for a Mustang.

Back to my current point. I am still driving that 2001 Sentra. The hybrids have had those 21 years to catch the attention of the buying public. Until recently hybrid and EV sales were miserable. I do not know the current numbers. Likely more on the road the last few years but apparently not enough to satisfy the EV fans. Hence the artificial push by those currently in power.

I look forward to your crayon renderings.

 

[07S281E]

I will boycott EVs for as long as I can. Mainly because I'm old, stubborn, and I don't like things shoved down my throat or up other places.

 

[sk47]

I will boycott EVs for as long as I can. Mainly because I'm old, stubborn, and I don't like things shoved down my throat or up other places.

Hello; I am also old. I had hoped the world would not change for the worse until after I am gone. Alas such is not in the cards. I have not so far found a good niche where an EV would fit in my life. Something near 95% of my driving is well within the range of an EV. I could have one to go to get groceries which is a 14 mile round trip. The county seat is about 15 miles away so that is a 30 mile round trip. I sometimes drive to Knoxville TN about 60 miles away so 120 miles to get there and back plus some run around in the city miles. Often no more than 200 miles in a trip. All that is doable.
Thing is the cost for a great part. Even with the incentives (which I do not like) an EV cost too much more. The greatest part currently is just what you say. The being forced.

 

[Tomster]

Hello; I am also old. I had hoped the world would not change for the worse until after I am gone. Alas such is not in the cards. I have not so far found a good niche where an EV would fit in my life. Something near 95% of my driving is well within the range of an EV. I could have one to go to get groceries which is a 14 mile round trip. The county seat is about 15 miles away so that is a 30 mile round trip. I sometimes drive to Knoxville TN about 60 miles away so 120 miles to get there and back plus some run around in the city miles. Often no more than 200 miles in a trip. All that is doable.
Thing is the cost for a great part. Even with the incentives (which I do not like) an EV cost too much more. The greatest part currently is just what you say. The being forced.

All this green crap is just that. A lot of the electricity is made from coal fired power plants. The lithium ion batteries will wind up in the landfill, so how is all of this green?

Some aspects of a hybrid car are interesting. The engine powers a generator, which powers electric motors that supplement power to the drivetrain. Some hypercars use this technology and it can be impressive.

I will say, I'm glad I have 3 FP vehicles in my garage that all have big ass V8s. I was out for a drive in one of my Rs yesterday, the sound and performance is incredible.

 

[gone_n_60]

this whole thread and the "spirited" debate on EV's brings me around to musing on how after the glory days of the American Muscle car faded into the 70's, 80's and 90's some dying out that amazingly we've had this very lovely renaissance of the Muscle car with new Chargers, Challengers, Camaro's and the Mustang. Thinking back at how things looked in the late 90's I would of never guessed something like the Mustang Shellby GT 500 running @ 760hp+ or a revived Mach 1 could exists like they do now. The cool thing is people who never experienced the "old days" are fans of these new Muscle or Pony cars and there are more car shows, Fan club gatherings, Cars and Coffee events and tracks than I remember from the late 80's to early 2000's.
Things change and we'll see what the daily driver becomes but it's been a glorious thing to be part of both era's while it lasts. I've learned some interesting things working contract at Hagerty Insurance, one of their Core Values published is this.... Enjoy the Ride!

 

[Evolvd]

Hello; interesting approach. Were it that you get to control the content you would then always win the point. Unfortunately you do not get to decide the rules of this discussion. By that I mean what you call "nitpicking" are important details to others.
An irony but not the only one so far is that you recently accused me of being vague in my comments. I guess you see it that way. More often I am accused of being too long winded and detail oriented.

The evolution of the automobile did not, to the best of my knowledge, have an episode where state, federal and local governments made laws/rulings prematurely to get rid of using a horse. The utility and practicality of the ICE slowly proved itself and the infrastructure followed demand.

In other posts I have written that back in 2001 I was shopping for a new car. I looked at the hybrid offerings of the time and decided to pass. That was over twenty years ago. A modern hybrid is now a much better vehicle. I did test drive a Toyota Prius a couple of years or so ago. I could have lived with it as practical but uninspiring basic transportation. It was the significant extra cost over an equivalent ICE and the sense of driving an appliance which stopped me. I decided to keep my 2001 Sentra SE and started looking for a Mustang.

Back to my current point. I am still driving that 2001 Sentra. The hybrids have had those 21 years to catch the attention of the buying public. Until recently hybrid and EV sales were miserable. I do not know the current numbers. Likely more on the road the last few years but apparently not enough to satisfy the EV fans. Hence the artificial push by those currently in power.

I look forward to your crayon renderings.

Funny as I’ve not once tried to control the discussion, I posted a few points of discussion and a few folks decided to ignore the context of the post and decided to argue minutia.
And yes, the government did mandate how horses were used on public roads.
Point is, since I have to state this for folks to understand it, is that government has their hands in everything.

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