Air Lift Questions

[Burkey]

So, I went and accidentally ordered some Air Lift suspension gear....
Questions for those who're already on it.

1. What is your typical pressure you use for everyday driving?

2. How much do you have to raise or lower the pressure before there's a significant change in the "spring rate"

3. Do you play with the heights of the locking collars to get the car to sit at the everyday height with your preferred pressure? Eg. Car was a bit soft as supplied, raised the pressure 10(?) psi, car drove better, adjusted collars so that car sits at the correct height at that pressure.

I'm doing a very basic setup at this point. No management whatsoever. Just 4 inflators in the boot, one for each corner. Pics and review of setup will come once she's all done.:cheers:

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[4orceFed]

So, I went and accidentally ordered some Air Lift suspension gear....
Questions for those who're already on it.

1. What is your typical pressure you use for everyday driving?

2. How much do you have to raise or lower the pressure before there's a significant change in the "spring rate"

3. Do you play with the heights of the locking collars to get the car to sit at the everyday height with your preferred pressure? Eg. Car was a bit soft as supplied, raised the pressure 10(?) psi, car drove better, adjusted collars so that car sits at the correct height at that pressure.

I'm doing a very basic setup at this point. No management whatsoever. Just 4 inflators in the boot, one for each corner. Pics and review of setup will come once she's all done.:cheers:

Accidental, huh? :lol:. I'm on Air Lift 3P, which is digital with Bluetooth. Stock Performance Pack 19" wheels and tires. I am IN NO WAY a suspension expert, but from my experience installing my system and reading the installation manuals, here's what I can say...

1. My suspension is stock other than the Air Lift system. For daily commuting, my driving preset is 45 lbs.-Front, 70 lbs-Rear. Roughly 1/2" tire to fender clearance with absolutely no rubbing. Could go lower, but this is good for my 120 mile round trip commute.

2. Not sure what you mean by this. Don't know if you can compare "spring rates" with an air strut. But even though you change air pressures in the bags, the ride remains the same. Only the height changes with pressure adjustment. The dampening (which is what changes ride quality, rebound and compression) can be adjusted for both front and rear, using the manual dials. This changes your ride quality or how stiff/soft the ride is. Has 35 settings.

3. I left my collars set up from the factory. The collars are for you to adjust the ride height RANGE. It's at the lowest setting from factory, I believe. Once set, the air bags do the lifting in the range you set the collars. Your ride quality has to do with the dampening adjustment, not the collars or pressure in the air bags. So once the collars are set and tight, you should only adjust if your not happy with the range of your lift.

Not sure if the manual systems are different, but this is what I've come to understand with the Air Lift 3P.

Hope this helps.

 

[Burkey]

Thanks Jay. Mate are you SURE about #2????
I ask because -https://www.bagriders.com/blog/suspensionadjustment
According to this, I should be able to do exactly what I was talking about.

Also, is everyone in the US involved in airbags named "Jay"?
Seriously, I sent a PM to Jay at hypermotive.
I ordered the bits through Jay at dotcomparts
I ask a question on the forum and Jay replies...
Is this a thing?

 

[Calvin]

Thanks Jay. Mate are you SURE about #2????
I ask because -https://www.bagriders.com/blog/suspensionadjustment
According to this, I should be able to do exactly what I was talking about.

Also, is everyone in the US involved in airbags named "Jay"?
Seriously, I sent a PM to Jay at hypermotive.
I ordered the bits through Jay at dotcomparts
I ask a question on the forum and Jay replies...
Is this a thing?

Spring rate does change relative to the pressure in the air spring. By no means does the spring rate stay the same at different pressures. There is an equation somewhere to estimate the spring rates.

I have the Airlift struts and bags on my GTPP but with Accuair Elevel (height based control.) Since I am on height based management, the 'spring' rate per height setting does change depending on if I have a heavy load in the trunk or a passenger since the bags will need more pressure to achieve the same set height.

Currently I am riding with the front air struts setup the way they came in the box and for the rear shocks I threaded them all the way into the shock body. One thing to note is that you should add Loctite to the jam collars since I have had all the collars loosen up after some time. (Answer to question 3)

My riding height is currently set at 26.5 inches (ground to fender) in the front and 27.5 inches (ground to fender) in the rear (OEM spec tire diameter for PP) with the damping set to the middle. The ride quality is relatively close to my stock PP suspension definitely not 'plush' but not bouncy. My 'cruising' setting on the Elevel set at a fender height of 25.75 and 26.5 and is definitely more on the softer side and mimics the base GT suspension feel (maybe a bit more bouncy) but obviously the car is not functional as a daily driver at that point. (No pressure but answer to question 1 and comment for 2)

This is my first post here but I figured I would give input.

 

[Burkey]

Thanks for the input Calvin, really appreciated.
For a first reply I'd say you're off to a very good start!
The comment re loctite on the jam collars duly noted.
I noticed that Accuair suggest the use of Loctite 565 on the threads of the air line fittings, rather than using teflon tape. Ordered that also cos I'm not down with a leaky system.
Now I've just gotta convert imperial to metric to work out what the hell you just said re heights....:headbonk::cheers:

 

[4orceFed]

Thanks Jay. Mate are you SURE about #2????
I ask because -https://www.bagriders.com/blog/suspensionadjustment
According to this, I should be able to do exactly what I was talking about.

Also, is everyone in the US involved in airbags named "Jay"?
Seriously, I sent a PM to Jay at hypermotive.
I ordered the bits through Jay at dotcomparts
I ask a question on the forum and Jay replies...
Is this a thing?

LOL, guess your run in's with "Jay" and airbags are strictly coincidental. Name was common in the 70's and short for Jason. We do get around.

As I stated, I'm not a suspension expert. So, NO, I'm not sure about #2. maybe another member with a better understanding can chime in and simplify things for you. My explanation was based solely on my installation and from what I read in the instructions.

Thank you for the link to the article, I've learned from your inquiry, which is what it's all about. This article is way more in depth than what I've seen. It does state that it's for those craving a more technical, in depth knowledge of air suspensions. Which, by reading, demonstrates how little I understood the capabilities and adjustability of the system. However, from what I understand in the article, the "spring rate" refers strictly to pressure in the "air spring." Not a "spring" as it would commonly be thought of in a coil over suspension. Could be wrong though.

From first hand experience, I'm not sure why you would want to adjust the collars. Mine were perfect from the factory and the height, as it correlates to the "spring rate," were dead on. I've only messed with the dampening, which for daily driving, is perfect, right in the middle.

Seems we both learned a bit today. Good luck with your kit, I know you'll love it.

 

[4orceFed]

Thanks Calvin. You chimed in while I was responding. There you go Burkey!

 

[Burkey]

LOL, guess your run in's with "Jay" and airbags are strictly coincidental. Name was common in the 70's and short for Jason. We do get around.

As I stated, I'm not a suspension expert. So, NO, I'm not sure about #2. maybe another member with a better understanding can chime in and simplify things for you. My explanation was based solely on my installation and from what I read in the instructions.

Thank you for the link to the article, I've learned from your inquiry, which is what it's all about. This article is way more in depth than what I've seen. It does state that it's for those craving a more technical, in depth knowledge of air suspensions. Which, by reading, demonstrates how little I understood the capabilities and adjustability of the system. However, from what I understand in the article, the "spring rate" refers strictly to pressure in the "air spring." Not a "spring" as it would commonly be thought of in a coil over suspension. Could be wrong though.

From first hand experience, I'm not sure why you would want to adjust the collars. Mine were perfect from the factory and the height, as it correlates to the "spring rate," were dead on. I've only messed with the dampening, which for daily driving, is perfect, right in the middle.

Seems we both learned a bit today. Good luck with your kit, I know you'll love it.

The way I see it, the day you stop learning is the day you stop breathing, but you can't teach someone who already knows everything...:frusty:
Gotta love this forum. Always something new to learn here.
I'm not sure why I'd want to adjust the "spring rate" either.. was just asking the question in case I get them installed and find myself disappointed.
All users have said "they're great" but we all have different driving styles and expectations. So, I guess that's why I was questioning the adjustability.
IF they're as good as a coil over set-up, I've just saved some weight, unsprung at that!

If and when I go to a management system, I'll likely go with Accuairs e-level.
They do a special one for Australia. Has a sensor for handbrake position, meaning the car won't air-out unless the handbrake is applied. It's a legal requirement for us over here. Plus, height sensing has to be "better" (insert own definition of better here) than pressure based right?

 

[Calvin]

The way I see it, the day you stop learning is the day you stop breathing, but you can't teach someone who already knows everything...:frusty:
Gotta love this forum. Always something new to learn here.
I'm not sure why I'd want to adjust the "spring rate" either.. was just asking the question in case I get them installed and find myself disappointed.
All users have said "they're great" but we all have different driving styles and expectations. So, I guess that's why I was questioning the adjustability.
IF they're as good as a coil over set-up, I've just saved some weight, unsprung at that!

If and when I go to a management system, I'll likely go with Accuairs e-level.
They do a special one for Australia. Has a sensor for handbrake position, meaning the car won't air-out unless the handbrake is applied. It's a legal requirement for us over here. Plus, height sensing has to be "better" (insert own definition of better here) than pressure based right?

That is a great statement.

As far as height vs. pressure based. It is all relative like you mentioned. I personally prefer height based systems primarily due to the fact that I don't have to guess the pressure for different vehicle load scenarios.

One of my biggest headaches going height based was height sensor placement. I have gone through a few revisions just figuring out the rear sensor placement. What limited me to sensor placement was both clearances with suspension as well as wanting to nut and bolt the sensor to the car vs self tapping. The sensors seem to be in their ideal spot currently but I am technically still in the shakedown/test phase for them. If you do go Accuair Elevel in the future, feel free to contact me and I will definitely help in terms of how I set it up or where I placed the sensors and linkages.

 

[Burkey]

That is a great statement.

As far as height vs. pressure based. It is all relative like you mentioned. I personally prefer height based systems primarily due to the fact that I don't have to guess the pressure for different vehicle load scenarios.

One of my biggest headaches going height based was height sensor placement. I have gone through a few revisions just figuring out the rear sensor placement. What limited me to sensor placement was both clearances with suspension as well as wanting to nut and bolt the sensor to the car vs self tapping. The sensors seem to be in their ideal spot currently but I am technically still in the shakedown/test phase for them. If you do go Accuair Elevel in the future, feel free to contact me and I will definitely help in terms of how I set it up or where I placed the sensors and linkages.

Thanks Calvin, I'll take you up on that when the time comes. Appreciated.
I can make sense of the instructions easily enough but as you say, the actual practice of what works and where will be the challenge for sure. Cheers mate.

 

[Turbo1915]

That is a great statement.

As far as height vs. pressure based. It is all relative like you mentioned. I personally prefer height based systems primarily due to the fact that I don't have to guess the pressure for different vehicle load scenarios.

One of my biggest headaches going height based was height sensor placement. I have gone through a few revisions just figuring out the rear sensor placement. What limited me to sensor placement was both clearances with suspension as well as wanting to nut and bolt the sensor to the car vs self tapping. The sensors seem to be in their ideal spot currently but I am technically still in the shakedown/test phase for them. If you do go Accuair Elevel in the future, feel free to contact me and I will definitely help in terms of how I set it up or where I placed the sensors and linkages.

Calvin, I'm in the process of locating my sensors for my Elevel, anyway I could get some pic/info of how and where you mounted them. I like the idea of nut and bolt vs self tapping myself better. Thanks in advance!

 

[Calvin]

Calvin, I'm in the process of locating my sensors for my Elevel, anyway I could get some pic/info of how and where you mounted them. I like the idea of nut and bolt vs self tapping myself better. Thanks in advance!

Hi, sure thing. I am planning on doing my bumpsteer measurement and correction this weekend. If I do, I will snap some pics of the sensors.

 

[Turbo1915]

Hi, sure thing. I am planning on doing my bumpsteer measurement and correction this weekend. If I do, I will snap some pics of the sensors.

Fantastic! :cheers:

 

[Calvin]

Fantastic! :cheers:

These aren't the best pictures but should suffice in showing the locations where I mounted my sensors. Do note for the front that I mounted the linkage to the brake air duct attached to the control arm. It shouldn't be hard to make a aluminum bracket to wrap around the non-PP control arms however.

Notes:
-A small 3/8ths wrench was used to hold the nut to be bolted for the front sensors.
-Front wheel liners have to be trimmed where the height sensors are placed.
-The nut for the rear is assessable from a very large rubber grommet that is visible when you remove the trunk carpeting.
-I am using billet height sensors arms, I originally snapped a stock arm and then 3-D printed replacement arms so that I can use them during the 'shakedown' period. I could not justify paying $20 for a OEM plastic arm when you can get 4 aluminum arms for $40.
-I am also using metal heim joints for all 4 corners. I would not recommend doing the billet arms and metal heim joints personally (I consider the plastic heims and arms that come with the Accuair kit as failsafes to protect the height sensor in case of binding or failure to articulate) but I have enough replacement height sensors laying around that I just went for it.
-Use spacers to allow full articulation of the heims so that they don't contact the height sensor arm or linkage bracket. This applies to both the metal and plastic heims.
-Rear sensor arms are flipped 180 degrees. (Unscrew, pull off, reinsert 180 degrees)
-The driver side rear sensor required removal of the gas filler shield/vent tube holder to clear the height sensor arm. I also removed the 10mm bolt holding the gas filler tube to the chassis and used the hole as the lower mounting hole for the height sensor.
-The Accuair heims are 10-32 thread. To cut the thread to length, the easiest and quickest way is using the bolt cutters found on some wire strippers.
-I used 10-32 panhead screws for the linkages to provide clearance.

Rear Bracket
I went through a few 3-D printed brackets for the rear before settling with a simple piece of aluminum angle bolted to the camber arm bolt. The bracket is shown in the pictures and is just a piece of angle sandwiched between the existing camber arm nut and a new nut. Since I have Steeda camber arms, I bought some flanged head class 10.9 M12-1.75 90mm bolts and equivalent flanged nuts so that I can keep the same bolt orientation. (Steeda camber arms requires the OEM bolt to be flipped which would not have let me go with my current bracket setup)

Driver Front

Access hole for 3/8 wrench. Tape is to hold nut (and 'invisible' washer) in place.

Passenger Front

Driver Rear

Passenger Rear

Sorry if my notes aren't clear. Let me know if there are any questions and I will try to elaborate on it more.

 

[Turbo1915]

Well written, this fantastic! Will let you know how things go. Thanks again!

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