2018 MT-82 on the way OUT?

[bschoon55]

2018 GT with 17k miles on it.... about 2 weeks ago picked up what I personally deem to be excessive tranny whine in 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear................... zero whine in 4th, 5th, 6th or neutral. I took it to one Ford dealer and they told me it sounds completely normal to them after driving the car with me in it.... despite me disagreeing and pleading with them to at least change the transmission fluid.... they said no need to fix a car that's fine. I was going to take it to another Ford dealer and they cancelled my appointment... said they don't have enough techs.

I tried to have an independent shop at least take a look at it. After explaining the situation to them, they told me not to waste my money. They told me while the car is still under warranty, I'm way better off just driving it until the car breaks, then holding Ford accountable for it.

I posted this video in another one of our forums, but I should have posted it here instead.

How does this sound to you? This is with all the windows up.........it's actually way louder with the windows down... BUT there was too much wind noise on the camera so I had to settle for this.



One last thing to further complicate this.......... it actually shifts really well............. only an occasional lockout DOWNSHIFTING into 2nd gear, otherwise it's perfect.

Thanks for any advice!

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[Vlad Soare]

That doesn't sound right to me. The only car I've ever heard that kind of transmission whine in was a Lada Niva (in which it was perfectly normal due to its design). No modern gearbox should sound like that.
I don't know what it is (a worn out bearing, perhaps?), but I'm pretty sure it isn't normal.

 

[dx2]

Strange that only gear 1 2 3 are affected.
I am interested which component group in the transmission is causing it.
Seem independent of rotational speed.
Regarding effort: i agree with the independent shop but
this would bother me, I had to find out what it is, just because I always need to know when I find unknown things

I would not be surprised if you show up with a broken engine at the Ford dealership and they say it sounds completely normal.

Let's translate what they actually meant: "Dont worry, it won't break within the warranty period."

 

[bschoon55]

Strange that only gear 1 2 3 are affected.
I am interested which component group in the transmission is causing it.
Seem independent of rotational speed.
Regarding effort: i agree with the independent shop but
this would bother me, I had to find out what it is, just because I always need to know when I find unknown things

I would not be surprised if you show up with a broken engine at the Ford dealership and they say it sounds completely normal.

Let's translate what they actually meant: "Dont worry, it won't break within the warranty period."

Yup, I just have no idea what to do.

 

[ice445]

Change the fluid yourself and see if it helps. It's pretty easy. Otherwise I agree with the independent shop, just drive it until it breaks. I doubt you'll lose all gears at once unless it's an input shaft bearing or something. But ultimately nobody is going to do anything about it until it's actually broken. I think my trans whined once when it was cold but then stopped once the fluid got up to temp. But I don't really drive it in the winter or cold days so I'm not really sure if it's repeatable or not.

 

[Nerds 2 You]

I read the other day that there are TSB's from Ford letting the tech's know they should change the fluid if a customer is experiencing issues.

https://fordauthority.com/2020/06/mustang-mt82-transmission-woes-lead-to-new-class-action-lawsuit/

"The lawsuit alleges that Ford has known about these transmission issues in association with the Mustang since 2010, since the automaker has issued a number of technical service bulletins and special service messages related to the MT82 or MT82-D4.

n those documents, Ford has instructed its dealer technicians to drain and refill the transmissions, replace the third and fourth gear shift forks, the countershaft third gears, and the third and fourth gear synchronizer hubs and sleeves. Technicians have also been told to replace the gearshift levers, the clutch pedal position switches, brackets, the main shaft second gears, and the first and second gear synchronizer hubs and sleeves. "

 

[-Armoured-]

Sounds like a straight cut sequential box

 

[bschoon55]

So I went to a small family owned Ford dealership out of my way to see what they thought of it on Monday. The Parts & Service Director rode in the car with me... He absolutely was in agreement that nothing about this sounded normal to him.

He told me they would start a claim with Ford's warranty department which takes about 48 hours. 4 days later, haven't heard anything.

Pretty annoying, the car just sounds screwed up... but it drives fine and shifts perfectly.

 

[Dfeeds]

Does it do it all the time for you? I have the same whine but it's quiet and goes away around 2.5k rpm. Then I either forget it exists or it goes away completely when warm. Hasn't changed in 16k miles so I haven't lost any sleep over it.

 

[bschoon55]

Does it do it all the time for you? I have the same whine but it's quiet and goes away around 2.5k rpm. Then I either forget it exists or it goes away completely when warm. Hasn't changed in 16k miles so I haven't lost any sleep over it.

It does it all the time, warm or cold.... any RPM in 1-2-3. Any RPM in 4-5-6 it's dead quiet.... only noise is the engine and 2k rattle.... so you put the 2k rattle together with this noise and this car sounds like a disaster at low speeds until the exhaust can overcome a lot of it.

This is definitely something failing because the car sounded the same for the 1 1/2 years I've had it, up until a few weeks ago.

 

[Dfeeds]

It does it all the time, warm or cold.... any RPM in 1-2-3. Any RPM in 4-5-6 it's dead quiet.... only noise is the engine and 2k rattle.... so you put the 2k rattle together with this noise and this car sounds like a disaster at low speeds until the exhaust can overcome a lot of it.

This is definitely something failing because the car sounded the same for the 1 1/2 years I've had it, up until a few weeks ago.

I wasn't contesting that it was or wasn't, only curious. I don't recall having it when I first got the car but distinctly remember having it after my warrantied engine replacement. But, again, it goes away when warm and it hasn't gotten any worse in 16k miles so I just chalked it up to normal rear end whine from the 3.73 gears. Now your experience sparks some interest.

 

[dx2]

It does it all the time, warm or cold.... any RPM in 1-2-3. Any RPM in 4-5-6 it's dead quiet.... only noise is the engine and 2k rattle.... so you put the 2k rattle together with this noise and this car sounds like a disaster at low speeds until the exhaust can overcome a lot of it.

This is definitely something failing because the car sounded the same for the 1 1/2 years I've had it, up until a few weeks ago.

Is the 1-2-3-noise occurring under load only?
Is it still audible while depressing the clutch with transmission gear's meshed in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear and coasting at ~30 mph?

Gears not engaged are freely spinning on the counter shaft on their needle bearings.


An engaged gear is fixed to the shaft, so both have the same speed, meaning the needle bearing are not moving anymore, so are the synchronizer assembly and rings.

The synchro hubs are splined to the shafts so they always rotate the same speed. The fork fingers are constantly sliding on them.

What could cause the noise might be misaligned fork fingers rubbing against the hub or damaged gears where the damage only gets more pronounced when under load but I doubt it.

I would exclude the output, input and counter shaft bearings altogether otherwise all other gears would result in the same or similar noise.

My bet is on the gears themselves.



I found this in the workshop manual in the symptom chart for the manual transmission:

Symptom: Noisy in forward gears:

NOTE: While verifying the condition, determine whether the noise is gear rollover noise, release bearing rub or some other transmission- related noise.

Gear rollover noise, inherent in manual transmissions, is caused by the constant mesh of gears turning at the engine idle speed while the clutch is engaged and the transmission is in NEUTRAL.

Release bearing rub is sometimes mistaken for mainshaft bearing noise.

Gear rollover noise will disappear when the clutch is disengaged or when the transmission is engaged in gear.

Release bearing rub will disappear when the clutch is engaged. In the event that a bearing is damaged, the noise is more pronounced while engaged in gear under load or coast than in NEUTRAL

Possible source: Lubricant

Action: ADD or DRAIN and FILL with specified lubricant. REFER to: Transmission Draining and Filling (308-03A Manual Transmission- 6-Speed Manual Transmission – MT82, General Procedures).

Since gear 3 is also affected it's not this:

symptom: Transmission rattle noise — noise occurs at 1st and 2nd gear on light acceleration.
possible source: gear engagement
action: Acceptable operating condition. Caused by the contact pattern of these gears.

It sounds more like this one:

symptom: Transmission whine — a high pitched whine, also described as a squeal

possible source 1: Transmission gears are worn (high mileage vehicle)
action 1: result of normal gear wear - replace gears

possible source 2: mismatched gear sets
action 2: inspect for wear pattern and replace

possible source 3: damaged or worn transmission bearing
action 3: inspect, replace

Also:

NOTICE: Excessive temperatures may break down the transmission lubricant. If there is reason
to believe the transmission has been subjected to temperatures exceeding 135°C (275°F) for an
extended period (greater than 20 minutes), change the lubricant immediately.

Well since the workshop manual states quite a lot of procedures I suggest the shop should look it up and try those. If they ask, tell them it is under section 308-03A subsection Diagnosis and Testing

anyway, changing lubricant seems to be the easy and cheap way to find out.
The hard way is a disassembly of the transmission.

 

[bschoon55]

Is the 1-2-3-noise occurring under load only?
Is it still audible while depressing the clutch with transmission gear's meshed in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear and coasting at ~30 mph?

Gears not engaged are freely spinning on the counter shaft on their needle bearings.


An engaged gear is fixed to the shaft, so both have the same speed, meaning the needle bearing are not moving anymore, so are the synchronizer assembly and rings.

The synchro hubs are splined to the shafts so they always rotate the same speed. The fork fingers are constantly sliding on them.

What could cause the noise might be misaligned fork fingers rubbing against the hub or damaged gears where the damage only gets more pronounced when under load but I doubt it.

I would exclude the output, input and counter shaft bearings altogether otherwise all other gears would result in the same or similar noise.

My bet is on the gears themselves.



I found this in the workshop manual in the symptom chart for the manual transmission:



Since gear 3 is also affected it's not this:


It sounds more like this one:

Also:





Well since the workshop manual states quite a lot of procedures I suggest the shop should look it up and try those. If they ask, tell them it is under section 308-03A subsection Diagnosis and Testing

anyway, changing lubricant seems to be the easy and cheap way to find out.
The hard way is a disassembly of the transmission.

I really appreciate all of your research! Seriously.... a lot of good info. in here. To answer a couple of questions, it happens mostly under load in 1-2-3. The noise doesn't seem to have anything to do with the clutch at all... just on acceleration. You can hear a little noise coasting around, but it's super loud on throttle.... and it's so weird because the second you move it into 4th-5th-6th gear, no noise at all.......... completely silent.

 

[dx2]

Yes if the release bearing would be affected it probably would be audible in every gear.

Technically the transmission is nothing special, almost like all other manual gearboxes, so my pick is damaged gears on either counter or output shaft or both.

 

[bschoon55]

Yes if the release bearing would be affected it probably would be audible in every gear.

Technically the transmission is nothing special, almost like all other manual gearboxes, so my pick is damaged gears on either counter or output shaft or both.

Wanted to provide a small update... I can tell you with 100% confidence, the whine is ONLY while on throttle..... it's only when the throttle is being pushed down at any level in gears 1-2-3.... the second you let off, it stops instantly.

Gears 4-5-6 are still completely quiet at any time. Also, not sure if it's a coincidence or not, but the last two days in a row I've had two episodes where it grinded shifting up into 3rd gear while not even pushing the car.


Maybe the shift forks are giving in as well and this whole thing will destroy itself soon... not sure.

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