2015 Mustang Production / Ordering Schedule

[Free Agent]

I did negotiate the new purchase price first. The purchase price is not dependent on the trade-in at all. The saleman encouraged me to sell it private if I can in the mean time. I'm paying cash for the 2015 like I did for the 2014 and if I'm really motivated I'll just buy the 2015 outright without the trade towards it.

You don't understand, no dealer in their right mind is listing that car for $30k used when brand new 2014 GT base cars are listed at that same dealer and other dealers for $26,000.

There are plenty of other people on this site that paid several hundred below invoice including Husker on an LE. It's not "crazy". I feel some of the guys on here are ticked that they didn't negotiate a better deal and are trying to explain our sale prices away that there has to be something "up" to make them feel better about their own deal. And I'm not directing this towards you specifically, Free Agent. You're not anymore by the way. ;)

Did you tell them you were trading before you negotiated the new car price. That is what I'm getting at. If you did they knew they had some wiggle room. If you negotiated that price and THEN said after I think I want to trade, then you got a GREAT price as you ate into their holdback. You got a good deal, plain and simple, BUT when it comes to trade ins that is where they will make their money. They have a hard number on your trade in that they will not go below for whoever wants to buy it. They have to make money on the deal. Again congrats, not trying to rain on your parade but I'm trying to point out that a dealer knows all these tricks and can make something look better than it actually is. No hard feelings, you got a good deal.

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[wilson68944]

Did you tell them you were trading before you negotiated the new car price. That is what I'm getting at. If you did they knew they had some wiggle room. If you negotiated that price and THEN said after I think I want to trade, then you got a GREAT price as you ate into their holdback. You got a good deal, plain and simple, BUT when it comes to trade ins that is where they will make their money. They have a hard number on your trade in that they will not go below for whoever wants to buy it. They have to make money on the deal. Again congrats, not trying to rain on your parade but I'm trying to point out that a dealer knows all these tricks and can make something look better than it actually is. No hard feelings, you got a good deal.

I said I might trade my 2014 in towards it. I said that afterward. The main focus was on the sale. I'm in PA. I looked at that a few months ago and I couldn't remember if my state had no cap or just a really high cap. But like I said, they by law have to charge the same document fee to everyone regardless of deal. So that is a strong regulation mechanism that ensures it won't be too high at any dealer.

I want to be clear that in no way do I expect them not to make money off me. I think it's fair to make up to 3k on a late model trade in. But a customer trading in has to be realistic about what they're trading in. I mean when you can get a new model for $27,000 out the door you can't be unreasonable and expect 25k on your trade after getting the primary purchase for damn near a grand below invoice.

 

[Free Agent]

I said I might trade my 2014 in towards it. I said that afterward. The main focus was on the sale. I'm in PA. I looked at that a few months ago and I couldn't remember if my state had no cap or just a really high cap. But like I said, they by law have to charge the same document fee to everyone regardless of deal. So that is a strong regulation mechanism that ensures it won't be too high at any dealer.

I want to be clear that in no way do I expect them not to make money off me. I think it's fair to make up to 3k on a late model trade in. But a customer trading in has to be realistic about what they're trading in. I mean when you can get a new model for $27,000 out the door you can't be unreasonable and expect 25k on your trade after getting the primary purchase for damn near a grand below invoice.

Did you get the doc fee in writing? I don't see it on the DORA. By law any state can only charge a MAXIMUM doc fee not a minimum to everyone. Again I need to look up PA. Here in Illinois the max is capped by law around $163. I had one dealer tell me what you are saying, that "by law" they have to charge everyone the same. NO THEY DONT (At least here in Illinois). They are obligated by law NOT to charge above the maximum set by the state, that doesn't mean someone can negotiate it lower. I found my current dealer that would honor the $100 doc fee after the first dealer wouldn't budge.

I'd actually like to see you sell it privately to see if they would honor the deal. I would hope they would.

Again, I'm not trying to belittle your deal, just bringing up that dealers are going to make money on one end or the other of a trade in deal. They can make a deal look better than it may actually be.

Just curious. Is your 2014 a GT or GT premium? Mileage if you don't mind sharing.

And again, you made a good deal, I'm not debating that.

 

[Free Agent]

Just for a little information for everyone on the board about doc fees. This is a good read and I will quote some telling information. Hope it will help anyone out who is unknowing of them or how they work.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/car-salesman-confidential-whats-up-doc-fee-24067.html?__federated=1

Here's a couple of paragraphs that are very telling of what dealers do and "hide" their profit.

Here's the tougher question. Do you have to? It depends. At all the dealerships I've ever worked at, you have to pay the Doc Fee. Even as an employee, I have to pay the fee if I buy a car there. If a customer refuses to pay it and nothing can be worked out, we can't sell him a car. Period. The reasoning I've been given is, if a dealership charges one customer a fee -- of any kind-- they have to charge everyone the same fee, or they open themselves up to a lawsuit. The only remedy you have as a customer is to ask for an equivalent discount on the vehicle to offset the Doc Fee. In other words, take $595 off the price to account for the $595 fee you're tacking on at the end. Here's the kicker, though. If you've already negotiated a "killer deal" for yourself, a deal that is "net-net" for the dealership -- meaning it breaks even -- or actually loses money, you will not be able to do this. You will have to pay the Doc Fee or do business elsewhere. Believe it or not, if you've driven a hard enough bargain, the Doc Fee may be the only thing allowing the dealership to stay out of the red and make any profit at all. Is this fair? Is this a good business practice? In my opinion, if you know about all the fees up front and can object before a final price is agreed upon, I have no problem with it. I work at a "Full Disclosure" dealership, and we show every customer all our fees up front, long before they go into the finance office. If a fee is concealed or held back until the last minute, I feel it's a deceptive tactic and should not be tolerated by the customer. The bottom line is, don't let yourself be caught off guard by dealer fees. Expect them and be prepared to deal with them. Before signing anything at any dealership -- or driving five hours for that "Fabulous Internet Special" -- always ask them "Does this price include all your fees?" Don't try to guess the name of the fee and ask if the price includes their "Doc Fee," because if the dealership calls it something else, say a "delivery fee" or a "service fee," and not a "Doc Fee," they can truthfully answer "We don't have a Doc Fee." This is a BS answer, of course. It only means they have fees, they just don't call them "Doc Fees." So be sure to make your question as broad as possible. If you know in advance about the fees, then at least you can make an informed decision.

Read more: http://blogs.motortrend.com/car-salesman-confidential-whats-up-doc-fee-24067.html#ixzz38zhFo849

 

[wilson68944]

Just for a little information for everyone on the board about doc fees. This is a good read and I will quote some telling information. Hope it will help anyone out who is unknowing of them or how they work.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/car-salesman-confidential-whats-up-doc-fee-24067.html?__federated=1

Here's a couple of paragraphs that are very telling of what dealers do and "hide" their profit.

Free, you're simply wrong. Re-read the link you sent me. It says it right there in bold letters.


"You cannot negotiate a dealer's doc fee because they are required by law to charge the same amount to every customer. You can, however, ask them to reduce the price of the vehicle to compensate for a high doc fee."

 

[souprmage]

Fortunately, I know the inventory manager and it's who I'm doing business with.

I know what I'm willing to pay, and what is reasonable. I'm not in it to pay the absolute minimum possible. The dealer will make money off me, and they'll also give me something in return. Like the first '15 car on their lot.

If I bought a car every 2-3 years, I may be more concerned. But I buy a car every 10ish years. I also don't like playing the game. It means I pay more, and I'm OK with that.

 

[wilson68944]

It's a base model no options. It will have 10k when I trade it. Please don't tell me what KBB says my cars worth. I'd like to deal in real world figures. Go to autotrader and click buy my car or something to that effect, fill the info out : 2014 base model, no options with 10k miles and see what they value it at. The reason dealers use autotrader buy back is because they put their money where their mouth is. Not saying dealers use it for their valuations but it's more realistic tool to ballpark what they will offer and if it isn't you can sell it to autotrader.

 

[wilson68944]

Fortunately, I know the inventory manager and it's who I'm doing business with.

I know what I'm willing to pay, and what is reasonable. I'm not in it to pay the absolute minimum possible. The dealer will make money off me, and they'll also give me something in return. Like the first '15 car on their lot.

If I bought a car every 2-3 years, I may be more concerned. But I buy a car every 10ish years. I also don't like playing the game. It means I pay more, and I'm OK with that.

People confuse final sale prices for a cock-off compitition. Like: "my dick is bigger so I'm more of a man. I got the best figure. Get some!"

I've been ripped off and I've won some. Like a casino the odds are in the houses favor. After all, you do this every ten years, they do it everyday. I'd hope they'd be better at it.

 

[Clink]

FYI for anyone interested or is trading in a '13-14 on their '15.

My '13 5.0 is for sale here @ $27.8k, actually has 27k miles not sure why it shows 3. But they will put your '14 on the lot as a CPO with a nice high sticker.

http://www.clearwaterford.com/Used-2013-Ford-Mustang-GT-Clearwater-FL/vd/10220914

Just so you know, they only gave me $23,500 for it. I should have shopped around (I know I know) but didn't and rolled a little negative equity into a '14 Focus (which BTW is a fucking beast around town....:tsk

So if anyone is in the market for a black '13 5.0 in the Tampa/Clearwater area, 27k miles, Roush Front end, GT500 axle backs, Brembo/3.73, stock suspension/motor, you can talk them down. Talk to James.

Sorry for going off topic, just trying to help anyone else out...

 

[wilson68944]

Did you get the doc fee in writing? I don't see it on the DORA. By law any state can only charge a MAXIMUM doc fee not a minimum to everyone. Again I need to look up PA. Here in Illinois the max is capped by law around $163. I had one dealer tell me what you are saying, that "by law" they have to charge everyone the same. NO THEY DONT (At least here in Illinois).

I have a seperate final sale copy that has all the figures on it. I didn't post it because I'd like to keep some of my business personal. Would you like to see my SSN, too? jk

 

[souprmage]

People confuse final sale prices for a cock-off compitition. Like: "my dick is bigger so I'm more of a man. I got the best figure. Get some!"

I've been ripped off and I've won some. Like a casino the odds are in the houses favor. After all, you do this every ten years, they do it everyday. I'd hope they'd be better at it.

I was under the assumption that X-Plan would at least give me some assurance I wasn't being completely fleeced on the car price. Of course, I'm also not going to go in blindly and just ignore the numbers put in front of me and hope for the best. Like the $700 advertising fee or whatever it is. I have no problem with that number as long as they don't low-ball me on my trade-in.

The lower they offer on my trade-in, the more I question everything. At least to some degree. But I'm also going to take the car in next month to get their trade-in value on the car, which they say they'll honor until the car is delivered. So, if I sell it for more prior to that time, then I come out ahead.

Fortunately, Jetta TDIs are pretty popular here.

 

[Free Agent]

Free, you're simply wrong. Re-read the link you sent me. It says it right there in bold letters.


"You cannot negotiate a dealer's doc fee because they are required by law to charge the same amount to every customer. You can, however, ask them to reduce the price of the vehicle to compensate for a high doc fee."

Correct, you can wiggle around the doc fee so to speak. What exactly is the doc fee at your dealership if I can ask? Thanks.

 

[wilson68944]

Did you get the doc fee in writing? I don't see it on the DORA. By law any state can only charge a MAXIMUM doc fee not a minimum to everyone. Again I need to look up PA. Here in Illinois the max is capped by law around $163. I had one dealer tell me what you are saying, that "by law" they have to charge everyone the same. NO THEY DONT (At least here in Illinois). They are obligated by law NOT to charge above the maximum set by the state, that doesn't mean someone can negotiate it lower. I found my current dealer that would honor the $100 doc fee after the first dealer wouldn't budge.

I'd actually like to see you sell it privately to see if they would honor the deal. I would hope they would.

Again, I'm not trying to belittle your deal, just bringing up that dealers are going to make money on one end or the other of a trade in deal. They can make a deal look better than it may actually be.

Just curious. Is your 2014 a GT or GT premium? Mileage if you don't mind sharing.

And again, you made a good deal, I'm not debating that.

FYI for anyone interested or is trading in a '13-14 on their '15.

My '13 5.0 is for sale here @ $27.8k, actually has 27k miles not sure why it shows 3. But they will put your '14 on the lot as a CPO with a nice high sticker.

http://www.clearwaterford.com/Used-2013-Ford-Mustang-GT-Clearwater-FL/vd/10220914

Just so you know, they only gave me $23,500 for it. I should have shopped around (I know I know) but didn't and rolled a little negative equity into a '14 Focus (which BTW is a fucking beast around town....:tsk

So if anyone is in the market for a black '13 5.0 in the Tampa/Clearwater area, 27k miles, Roush Front end, GT500 axle backs, Brembo/3.73, stock suspension/motor, you can talk them down. Talk to James.

Sorry for going off topic, just trying to help anyone else out...

You traded towards the '15? You also have track pack and is it a premium and brembo, too? Mine is a total stripper. Either way, just like my sales price I suppose anything is possible 27k LOL.

Like they are literally listed for 26k brand new at many dealers http://www.wchesterford.com/all-inv...ype=new&&&sortBy=year+desc&search=Mustang+GT&

 

[Codog23]

My dealer gave me invoice on my '15 order, which is below x-plan price. No hassle. I haven't discussed my trade in with him yet because i may sell privately. Curious what you guys think i can get for it. 2011 GT Premium, auto trans, full entertainment system with nav, 19inch premium wheels, black, garage kept, great condition, 18k miles. Throw some numbers at me. Thx

 

[Free Agent]

It's a base model no options. It will have 10k when I trade it. Please don't tell me what KBB says my cars worth. I'd like to deal in real world figures. Go to autotrader and click buy my car or something to that effect, fill the info out : 2014 base model, no options with 10k miles and see what they value it at. The reason dealers use autotrader buy back is because they put their money where their mouth is. Not saying dealers use it for their valuations but it's more realistic tool to ballpark what they will offer and if it isn't you can sell it to autotrader.

Thanks for answering. And correct dealers will offer the lowest trade in valuation they can find and then stick it on the lot at or higher than the highest valuation they can find or warrant to sell. In a two car deal they are going to make money on one end or the other. Really to compare any deal (and forgive me if you aren't comparing, I don't think you are) people need to compare apples to apples. Straight buy to straight buy and trade in buy to trade in buy. I foresee them slapping a $29K or $30K certified pre-owned sticker on it. Someone will buy it for less than that but I can see them getting NO WHERE less than $25K for it seeing as where they have to be on your deal. Used car prices are sky high right now, they will get that easy even with leftover '14s on the lot right now. But again, please don't take my statements the wrong way, I'm just trying to be informative, you have a good deal in front of you.

FYI for anyone interested or is trading in a '13-14 on their '15.

My '13 5.0 is for sale here @ $27.8k, actually has 27k miles not sure why it shows 3. But they will put your '14 on the lot as a CPO with a nice high sticker.

http://www.clearwaterford.com/Used-2013-Ford-Mustang-GT-Clearwater-FL/vd/10220914

Just so you know, they only gave me $23,500 for it. I should have shopped around (I know I know) but didn't and rolled a little negative equity into a '14 Focus (which BTW is a fucking beast around town....:tsk

So if anyone is in the market for a black '13 5.0 in the Tampa/Clearwater area, 27k miles, Roush Front end, GT500 axle backs, Brembo/3.73, stock suspension/motor, you can talk them down. Talk to James.

Sorry for going off topic, just trying to help anyone else out...

Many dealers probably make more overhead on used car sales than they do new car sales. The only dealer in my small town (GM dealer) has more used vehicles on the lot than new vehicles.

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