2015 GT PP vs. 2013 M3

[susko]

FYI:
The few posts about the Mustang's interior quality, equaling that of a BMW, ..was that of a 2-series BMW.. not a $70k M-car..

Go sit in a New Mustang, then in a new M235i, or a 135is @ $52k. Then remember, the Mustang sells for $26k.



The SVO, Mach, or GT350 will up the quality of materials Ford's offers. Your opinion is noted, but obviously moot.

How is my opinion moot? Don't get defensive. Truth is the best policy. The M3/4 share the same interior as the regular 328i and 335i. How do you know what the Mustang is going to have interior wise with the GT350 and such? In fact if Ford follows what they did with the Boss 302 the interior will be even more spartan. The OP didn't ask about a 2 series, it was regarding the E92 M3 vs. the new S550 Mustang. In case you didn't see what the title of the original post was about. In this particular case even the older E9X M3s have it all over the new Mustang when it comes to interior quality of materials. Yes I do think the new Mustangs interior is more exciting to look at, as the E9X M cars had a minimalist approach.

Now if Ford does decide to up the quality of the interior I will jump for joy. I love Mustangs, have had Mustang all through my youth and want to see Ford really make it right with the Mustang. As it is right now with the cars that are released at this moment in time, they missed the mark, for me anyway. I would buy a BMW 435i before I buy a S550 as of right now. When the GT350 comes out I will revisit my thoughts.

If you think I am anti-Ford you are wrong..I am the one that backed you up when you defended Ford and the bailout post on bimmerpost.com

Dave

also, premium trim is not @ $26k, fwiw

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[SlickShoes]

People expecting two similarly performing cars to have similarly refined cabins wherein one car carries an MSRP literally double that of the other car are simply high.

C'mon. A 35-40k Mustang will never exhibit a 70-80k M3's interior appointments. It's really that simple. You'd have to be a little short sighted to assume otherwise.

 

[Dave2013M3]

People expecting two similarly performing cars to have similarly refined cabins wherein one car carries an MSRP literally double that of the other car are simply high.

C'mon. A 35-40k Mustang will never exhibit a 70-80k M3's interior appointments. It's really that simple. You'd have to be a little short sighted to assume otherwise.

I agree 100% with you. However, the interior on an M3 is based off of a regular 3 series (in the case of the E92 M3) and it is pretty much identical to the interior of an E92 328i/335i except for some items. A car which can be had for $40k when new. I wasn't expecting it to be equal in these terms, but I expected it to be better. Now most people don't sit in the back seat of their own cars ever, but take a look in the back seat and all the hard plastic on the sides and such. It doesn't cost much to add some soft touch material back there.

Not trying to start an argument, just basing my experience as well as my expectations. For those of you who are contemplating a 2013 E92 M3 vs. a new S550 as the OP stated, this is my comparison from an actual owner of a E92 M3.

Dave

 

[OppoLock]

Definitely agree with all of your points Dave.

What's difficult about the whole situation is that a lot of people at this point have only been able to base judgement off of photos. Photos aren't telling of the actual quality, especially when it comes to evaluating the tactile sensations, the way the finish looks in natural lighting, and the overall feeling of solidity that these plastics convey. There's definitely a noticeable gap in these categories between the S550 in premium/premier spec even when compared to some of the vanilla lower models that BMW offers. Or most any luxury make for that matter.

On the flipside, I think the S550's interior appointments are a far cry from being a dealbreaker for me; in fact I'm more than happy with everything based on my experiences so far. It's come such a long way from prior Mustangs and the overall fit/finish is great for what I was expecting. Plus, I'm too familiar with BMW's soft touch finish aging rapidly on all of the hard plastic surfaces that come into frequent contact, like the whole IP where the HVAC controls reside, all of the buttons, parts of the steering wheel, window switches and the frame they sit in, etc.

 

[JoeDogInKC]

People expecting two similarly performing cars to have similarly refined cabins wherein one car carries an MSRP literally double that of the other car are simply high.

C'mon. A 35-40k Mustang will never exhibit a 70-80k M3's interior appointments. It's really that simple. You'd have to be a little short sighted to assume otherwise.

Exactly, but it goes both ways. The Mustang enthusiasts shouldn't expect it to match that of the M235i, M3, M4, etc. Conversely, the Bimmer folks shouldn't expect a car costing a little less than half as much (in the case of the M3/M4) to provide the same performance and/or interior quality.

Ford should be pretty proud of what they've achieved here. The fact that we're even talking about this shows that they have really upped their game. Even if the seat sides and back are pleather/vinyl, it was good enough to fool me with the 50th Appearance Package (or 68B) and is a major leap forward. Hell, it's probably better with vinyl from a longevity standpoint.

I'm extremely happy with the interior quality when you consider the entire package. It's got just enough quality, features and luxury while proving good performance for a reasonable price.

I threw 275/40/19 A/S's on my GT + PP on Friday, and while I have less rear tire traction for sure (Pirelli P-Zero Nero), the fronts are great.

 

[tbonez3858]

People expecting two similarly performing cars to have similarly refined cabins wherein one car carries an MSRP literally double that of the other car are simply high.

C'mon. A 35-40k Mustang will never exhibit a 70-80k M3's interior appointments. It's really that simple. You'd have to be a little short sighted to assume otherwise.

^^^This! I've said it before - Manufacturers dont just price something out of thin air. Its based upon cost plus a profit margin. The 2 series, 3 series and 4 series all have superior quality of interiors. They are spartan and boring but there is serious quality in the materials that are used. In addition you cant or at least shouldnt compare interiors from a luxury manufacturer and a non-luxury manufacturer. They have different strategies and spend their money in different areas of the car for the intended audience.

The new Mustang is by FAR the best in class for its interior but I definitely think we need to step back from the cliff regarding what we compare it to. We may compare the cars from a performance perspective and have a great showing. BMW is competing against Merc, Audi and Lexus for a completely different customer set for interiors. The only time I've heard Ford mention competing with BMW is that it used the outgoing model M3 for a performance benchmark.

Straight from Dave -

“What we targeted was Porsche 911, BMW, Audi, and even the Nissan GT-R believe it or not. Not because we wanted [the Mustang] to be a 911, but because [those cars] handled conditions in a unique way and there are things to learn from all that.

All comments I can find are about handling and performance and nothing to do with interior...In the same article Dave mentions that creating a 40k car that will compete with these cars listed above is a "stretch"...Another words the Mustang cant hit their performance marks at the price point. Even if the interior was included in the benchmark its clear Ford knew and couldnt be on par with these cars from his comments.

 

[Kolyan24k]

Gonna look at Mustang today, I had e92 fully loaded 335i. BMW interior in e92 is very good quality but the soft plastic does scratch and wear, as well as the leather seat bolsters . e92 was a nice improvement in quality compared to my e46 M3

 

[Kolyan24k]

Gonna look at Mustang today, I had e92 fully loaded 335i. BMW interior in e92 is very good quality but the soft plastic does scratch and wear, as well as the leather seat bolsters . e92 was a nice improvement in quality compared to my e46 M3

Nice car...the plastics do look rather cheap but I am ok with it....not a big deal. My real concern is the leather, to me the quality is much cheaper then in my e92. I am not sure if "Premium Trim" has different leather, dealer said leather is all the same. Dashboard and everything else looks nice.

I would need to test drive the car again. Its impossible to understand what this car is about in a short test drive with rep next to you Quick pros and cons: nice suspension, good power, good shifter feel, car seats pretty high even with PP, raised hood is a big turn off (or flat, just looks weird from inside), clutch is something need to get used to I guess....well and leather quality is concerning as far as wear goes. I am not sure how it works in Ford world, but with BMW customer service it would be pretty easy to get seat replaced within 50k mile warranty if it had any abnormal wear.

MPG concerns me too. I guess I am ok with 24-26 MPG on HW, but not sure if its possible with PP, people here get 19 as I read

 

[JoeDogInKC]

Nice car...the plastics do look rather cheap but I am ok with it....not a big deal. My real concern is the leather, to me the quality is much cheaper then in my e92. I am not sure if "Premium Trim" has different leather, dealer said leather is all the same. Dashboard and everything else looks nice.

I would need to test drive the car again. Its impossible to understand what this car is about in a short test drive with rep next to you Quick pros and cons: nice suspension, good power, good shifter feel, car seats pretty high even with PP, raised hood is a big turn off (or flat, just looks weird from inside), clutch is something need to get used to I guess....well and leather quality is concerning as far as wear goes. I am not sure how it works in Ford world, but with BMW customer service it would be pretty easy to get seat replaced within 50k mile warranty if it had any abnormal wear.

MPG concerns me too. I guess I am ok with 24-26 MPG on HW, but not sure if its possible with PP, people here get 19 as I read

I posted a picture of a 20 - 30 mile highway drive in the "MPG" thread showing me getting 27.4MPG in my GT + PP with all options except Nav and Recaro's.

 

[Kolyan24k]

I posted a picture of a 20 - 30 mile highway drive in the "MPG" thread showing me getting 27.4MPG in my GT + PP with all options except Nav and Recaro's.

I wonder how accurate those thing are. I guess more people would need to post 25+MPG readings. I have a buddy who was trying to show me that his 12 cylinder 750il was doing 30MPG

 

[JoeDogInKC]

I think you'll be able to get 25MPG pretty easily. Of course, it's going to depend on terrain, etc. If you are able to do a very long highway only run, I think you'll find pretty high numbers. The numbers I am seeing are better with a like-for-like driving comparison to my 2013 GT Premium which was an A/T and had stock 3.15's.

 

[OppoLock]

Nice car...the plastics do look rather cheap but I am ok with it....not a big deal. My real concern is the leather, to me the quality is much cheaper then in my e92. I am not sure if "Premium Trim" has different leather, dealer said leather is all the same. Dashboard and everything else looks nice.

I would need to test drive the car again. Its impossible to understand what this car is about in a short test drive with rep next to you Quick pros and cons: nice suspension, good power, good shifter feel, car seats pretty high even with PP, raised hood is a big turn off (or flat, just looks weird from inside), clutch is something need to get used to I guess....well and leather quality is concerning as far as wear goes. I am not sure how it works in Ford world, but with BMW customer service it would be pretty easy to get seat replaced within 50k mile warranty if it had any abnormal wear.

MPG concerns me too. I guess I am ok with 24-26 MPG on HW, but not sure if its possible with PP, people here get 19 as I read

I was surprised at how similar the basic feel was as far as the dash layout and driving position felt to my E92. I've yet to get seat time with a premier trim car, but the premium materials are adequate IMO. I also get the hood thing you're saying. I'm not used to seeing such a big cowl panel expanse between the windshield and hood ridge. I knew I'd see the hood, but I expected it to feel like it would start high and gradually slope toward the nose. In the S550 it looks like it almost bulges out toward the mid point of the nose like a raised bubble. Different but something I kind of think is cool.

 

[w3rkn]

How is my opinion moot? Don't get defensive. Truth is the best policy. The M3/4 share the same interior as the regular 328i and 335i. How do you know what the Mustang is going to have interior wise with the GT350 and such? In fact if Ford follows what they did with the Boss 302 the interior will be even more spartan. The OP didn't ask about a 2 series, it was regarding the E92 M3 vs. the new S550 Mustang. In case you didn't see what the title of the original post was about. In this particular case even the older E9X M3s have it all over the new Mustang when it comes to interior quality of materials. Yes I do think the new Mustangs interior is more exciting to look at, as the E9X M cars had a minimalist approach.

Now if Ford does decide to up the quality of the interior I will jump for joy. I love Mustangs, have had Mustang all through my youth and want to see Ford really make it right with the Mustang. As it is right now with the cars that are released at this moment in time, they missed the mark, for me anyway. I would buy a BMW 435i before I buy a S550 as of right now. When the GT350 comes out I will revisit my thoughts.

If you think I am anti-Ford you are wrong..I am the one that backed you up when you defended Ford and the bailout post on bimmerpost.com

Dave

My friend, the M3 shares the interior & aesthetics/design with that of the 3-series, not the quality of materials.... in which we (You) are discussing.

But, the base-line 3-series doesn't share the same level of trim as you look up the spectrum. With M being the top tier interior.



Secondly, Obviously one would conclude the GT350 would have a slightly different interior too. Perhaps the new info-system, mag shocks, etc. I bet the Mach will have a really nice interior when it comes out.

The S550 chassis is what bring so many people in, because we can all make it OUR car.


Myself... I am waiting on a TT 2.9L v6 in a SVO. Or a Lincoln derivative, if shooting brake hatch. From there, I will take over..

 

[Dave2013M3]

My friend, the M3 shares the interior & aesthetics/design with that of the 3-series, not the quality of materials.... in which we (You) are discussing.

But, the base-line 3-series doesn't share the same level of trim as you look up the spectrum. With M being the top tier interior.



Secondly, Obviously one would conclude the GT350 would have a slightly different interior too. Perhaps the new info-system, mag shocks, etc. I bet the Mach will have a really nice interior when it comes out.

The S550 chassis is what bring so many people in, because we can all make it OUR car.


Myself... I am waiting on a TT 2.9L v6 in a SVO. Or a Lincoln derivative, if shooting brake hatch. From there, I will take over..

The base 3 series is only different in the materials by the leather used. One is Dakota the M cars uses Novillo. I have owned 2 E46 M3s, 2 E92 M3s not to mention an E46 325i Sedan along with a E90 328i. Very familiar with the materials used even in the base cars. The base 3 series has a much nicer materials than the S550. For some people it won't matter, unfortunately for me as is right now it isn't worth me getting out of my 2013 E92 M3 over. I too am waiting with bated breath to see what the GT350 has to offer.

I feel the GT350 will probably go along the Boss 302 more spartan interior. The GT500 will be the one I think they will spruce up the interior a bit. All hearsay until the car is released.

Dave

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