2011-14 intake manifold swap

[gqneon]

So I went to an 11-14 intake manifold to eliminate the IMRC valves to try to help stop the Procharger surging issues. It did a world of good, but I can't hold any timing with it installed. I'm trying to figure out what could be causing that. It idles well and holds about 20 inches vacuum at idle. AFR is great, around 13.8-14.2 at idle, low load and light throttle, mid throttle. At WOT it drops to about 11.* AFR, under boost, so that's good. Then I lose timing BIG.

I'm talking like 9 degrees at redline on my pulls for Lund.

I'm going to throw race gas in it when I get home to see if maybe the fuel truck put 87 in the 93 pump tank at the QT or something.

I have to eliminate fuel quality problems first, but if it isn't the fuel, what is the next biggest possible culprit?

I'd hate to swap back to the imrc manifold after getting it out of there. I think the non imrc can perform as well without surging, but what else could be causing the huge drop in timing?

I could run 12.5-16 degrees on my imrc version, and 16-20 on race gas. I just don't know what it would be.




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[ProChargerTECH]

If its pulling it due to knock, fuel octane will help.

However, if its trying to limit power because of it being upset about the lack of IMRC's
Then the fuel won't do a thing. (obviously)

Removing the IMRC's changes so many tables, its pretty epic.
Timing, Cam Timing, Throttle, TQ, etc.

I really wish our tune worked with the ID1000's
Because really honestly the surge on our normal shipping kits is 99.99% gone.

 

[BlackGT]

just out of curiosity, is this surging limited to the procharger system or is it consistent with all centri systems?

 

[ProChargerTECH]

just out of curiosity, is this surging limited to the procharger system or is it consistent with all centri systems?

Our stock system eliminates 99.9% of the surge with our factory tune.
(Stock these cars even have the surge, and throttle hang)
Though yes all cars with IMRC's still on them, will always have the moment they are moving that people may notice.
Just as they did stock, or with other cars that have IMRC's or Vtech. Its a large change in airflow, in a small amount of time.

Customers with our stock HO and STG2 kits have been enjoying the systems for months now with no complaints.
It seems the issue seems to be more prevalent, with higher HP kits and custom tuning at this point.

We have no drove a high HP custom tuned system on big boost.
So can not report how the drive.

Only can report on how our cars, and customers cars drive with stock systems on them, and our tuning.

 

[beefcake]

def need another calibration with the imrcs deleted. we have 0 surging issues with our shop car with any surge

 

[gqneon]

If I floor it at say 2500 to do a log, it will invoke knock sensor timing retard, between 2-5 degrees almost immediately. If i roll into it for a sec then smack the gas, it will add timing instead. Lund said this is 100% indicative of false knock by NVH. I really don't want imrc back in my life. He says the WOT is the same on either tune. Exhaust, something robbing under the hood, etc or something introduced when I installed the intake manifold could cause it.

I feel like I need a foam washer under my knock sensor or something . I had this Ford exhaust put on my car at the dealer and I've had (probably false) knock retard issues even on BAMA CAI tunes. I really am starting to think the sensors are whack or picking up an exhaust vibration.

I'm running 100 octane on a 93 tune. I should hold 100% of the commanded timing. If I floor it, it almost inevitably jumps to knock retard.

On revision 3 of lunds no IMRC tuning.

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[sonic]

did you delete them by changing manifolds or just have lund revise the tune? sorry for the question this issue is hanging me up on which direction to head

def need another calibration with the imrcs deleted. we have 0 surging issues with our shop car with any surge

 

[gqneon]

I installed an 11-14 manifold workout imrc valves and had Lund turn them off in the tune.

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[Travis@boostworks]

It's not the manifold for sure.. Are you seeing any knock when you log?

 

[gqneon]

Yes. With 93 and 100 octane gas, I see immediate knock sensor as soon as I floor it down low. If I roll into it easy, it will add timing. If I smack the gas, it says knock sensors and pulls timing. I don't get it.

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[5.0 Steve]

Do u have oil catch cans or breathers to eliminate the oil mist that kills octane and pulls timing?

 

[gqneon]

Do u have oil catch cans or breathers to eliminate the oil mist that kills octane and pulls timing?

I do. Oil catch can. Barely a teaspoon in it in 1000 miles.

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[gqneon]

So even though the manifold can't be causing the issue, I switched back to my original imrc manifold again and the tune for it. No other changes.

It added 5 degrees of timing almost all the time under WOT with the 100 octane in the tank.

Feels 100% stronger and more consistent.

A little more surging, sure, but I don't want detonation or even false knock.

I didn't see anything wrong with the 11-14 install when I took it apart, either, but who knows?

I don't know how to tune but maybe that tune wasn't good for that manifold on my car.

I wish it would have worked but I can't gamble if it's real knock or false knock on a daily driver. Holes in pistons are holes in pistons.

I guess I'll look for a surge valve I can adjust, since it could be the transition to boost is too sharp also. There's no adjustment that I can see on the proflow.

Tapatalk spelling errors inside!

 

[Travis@boostworks]

Did you make sure that the knock sensors aren't hitting the 11-14 manifold? Could be false knock.

 

[gqneon]

It looks like they had clearance based on the depth of the manifold basin, but something was definitely causing an issue. I wish I could say what.

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