'17 ZL1 Nürburgring Lap Time of 7:29:60...WOW...

[J_Maher_AMG]

I don't have a video. A lack of a video doesn't mean it didn't happen. Hell even with a video doesn't mean it happened. Ever hear of camera effects? I'm not saying the ZL1 didn't do it. I'm saying people didn't believe the R times. Not to mention the zl1 has 114 more hp. Can't wait for ford to bring out the 500

Yep, and with 124 more hp, over 220 more tq, and a 10spd auto, 3 seconds is all that can be gained?? Am I the only one thats underwhelmed by its performance? A GT3 is still 4 seconds faster than the ZL1 with 180 less hp and over 300 less tq...

Personally, if all of those BIG advantages plays up to a 3 second gain, I think the new GT500 is going to easily surpass the ZL1. I honestly thought it would do significantly better. For that matter, it didn't even beat a 2006 Corvette Z06's time :shrug:

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[J_Maher_AMG]

Show me the video. Oh, that's right, there isn't one! GM releases these videos for their cars all the time. No need for anyone to think they'd be fake. Maybe Ford should take notes and release some footage next time.

Because Ford has said time and time again that they would not perform official timed laps until the Ring times were regulated. There are no true validations to any of the times, other than what the manufacturer chooses to tell us, and we can either believe it or not. No 3rd party to see if the car is even stock, whether it has any additional modifications that would aid its time, whether the videos are true and have not been tampered with, etc. Ring times are largely for entertainment value, since none of them are validated or have been regulated properly.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Show me the video. Oh, that's right, there isn't one! GM releases these videos for their cars all the time. No need for anyone to think they'd be fake. Maybe Ford should take notes and release some footage next time.

Educate yourself on why Ford doesn't release 'Ring videos.

Oops...the post above.

 

[traxiii]

The only way to truly tell would be for a full production car to go and run, without all the factory support on hand.

 

[Childs Play]

Yep, and with 124 more hp, over 220 more tq, and a 10spd auto, 3 seconds is all that can be gained?? Am I the only one thats underwhelmed by its performance? A GT3 is still 4 seconds faster than the ZL1 with 180 less hp and over 300 less tq...

Personally, if all of those BIG advantages plays up to a 3 second gain, I think the new GT500 is going to easily surpass the ZL1. I honestly thought it would do significantly better. For that matter, it didn't even beat a 2006 Corvette Z06's time :shrug:

It outperformed its predecessor by almost 12 seconds... That's damn impressive.

The Z/28 will be the one that matters compared to the GT350.

Horsepower is far from everything when it comes to a track car. Just look at the last gen ZL1 vs the last gen Z/28. I mean, it's obviously an important factor but it's not the most important.

And... if the GT500 beats the GT350 on the track I'd find that kind of off-putting considering the GT350 is supposed to be the track king and the GT500 should be the Mustang laughing at the drag strip. Maybe that's just me though. :shrug:

 

[Childs Play]

Educate yourself on why Ford doesn't release 'Ring videos.

Oops...the post above.

Agreed. Even though it would be nice to see an "official" time, there's a lot of variables when you just have a driver with a go-pro and some timing equipment hooked up to it.

But c'mon. You know you'd love to ride shotgun in the GT350 going around the Nurburgring.

And even though it's not really official it's still an excellent marketing strategy.

 

[Hack]

How long did it take when the gt350 was announced before they hit dealers?

The GT350 has its own specific engine, transmission and lots of unique bits. The 1LE is a handling package. Ford's handling package option came out with the GT, ECOboost and V6 cars. It seems like GM must be very limited on engineering resources based on how much time they need to release a handling option on their car. If the 1LE had a flat plane crank V8 that was the largest ever produced and made over 1 hp per liter I would not be surprised that it took a while to release. I would also not be surprised that GM would choose to advertise the car for a long time prior to release if there was something awesome about it. Since it's only a handling package, it should have been out last year.

I think they are being built right now, should be at dealers in a couple weeks.

Excellent! I'm looking forward to hearing more information about them when the real thing is finally out in the world.

The ZL1 and 1LE was always scheduled for a 4th quarter production and we have cars that have been ordered, built and as of today a confirmation on a shipped status on a ZL1.

It's about time!

Yep, and with 124 more hp, over 220 more tq, and a 10spd auto, 3 seconds is all that can be gained?? Am I the only one thats underwhelmed by its performance? A GT3 is still 4 seconds faster than the ZL1 with 180 less hp and over 300 less tq...

Personally, if all of those BIG advantages plays up to a 3 second gain, I think the new GT500 is going to easily surpass the ZL1. I honestly thought it would do significantly better. For that matter, it didn't even beat a 2006 Corvette Z06's time :shrug:

Huh, good points. The GT3 is an amazing car with a ton of grip, but it does cost what, roughly 3X as much as the Camaro? Plus the flat 6 is not an exciting engine IMO. The worst V8 in the world has to be better sounding than that engine.

Because Ford has said time and time again that they would not perform official timed laps until the Ring times were regulated. There are no true validations to any of the times, other than what the manufacturer chooses to tell us, and we can either believe it or not. No 3rd party to see if the car is even stock, whether it has any additional modifications that would aid its time, whether the videos are true and have not been tampered with, etc. Ring times are largely for entertainment value, since none of them are validated or have been regulated properly.

Very good points. As much as the GM fanboys want this to be gospel, it doesn't prove anything at all. We have no idea whether that car in the video was anything near what GM will actually sell. It could have way more power, stickier and wider tires, lighter wheels, different spring rates and suspension set up, better brakes...any one of those could make a significant difference in the lap time.

The only way to truly tell would be for a full production car to go and run, without all the factory support on hand.

Right.

 

[Voodooo]

Show me the video. Oh, that's right, there isn't one! GM releases these videos for their cars all the time. No need for anyone to think they'd be fake. Maybe Ford should take notes and release some footage next time.

Oh I'm sorry. I forgot. Ford needs a video to prove the GT350 was better, faster and overall the superior car over the Camaro? WITHOUT A VIDEO!
The zl1 is faster I'll give it that credit. But with 120+ more hp, 200+ lb tq. And 3 seconds faster? Doesn't matter if it has a video or not, it still won't outsell the GT350. Hell ford could slap a blower on a GT350 and slaughter the ZzzzzzL1

Ok nap time I'm sleepy ZzzzzzzL1

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Agreed. Even though it would be nice to see an "official" time, there's a lot of variables when you just have a driver with a go-pro and some timing equipment hooked up to it.

But c'mon. You know you'd love to ride shotgun in the GT350 going around the Nurburgring.

And even though it's not really official it's still an excellent marketing strategy.

I would love to ride in the GT350R, the new ZL1, the Corvette Grand Sport and my current car. Those would be some badass memories for sure:eyebulge:

 

[Voodooo]

That video means nothing to me. Oh wait. I'll compare it to a police camera. So let's see, if a cop shoots someone "without" a camera does it mean it didn't happen and the bad guy didn't really get shot?

I don't get some of you guys, because ford didn't video the gt350R times at the ring you're basically saying ford lied. But even when ford videotaped the gt500 then some say it's not real. Give me a break. I'll agree the ZzzzzzzL1 is fast but this video proves nothing about it being a production car, and even if it is it's still just a supercharged option on a old Z28. I'm sure if GM were to put a supercharger on a gen 5 z28 the results would be about the same.

 

[5.0 Probie]

So this is what is was like to be a car enthusiast in the mid 60's...

Wicked!

 

[Twin Turbo]

Can we, for once, have a Camaro thread that doesn't turn ugly, with childish insults being thrown?

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

It outperformed its predecessor by almost 12 seconds... That's damn impressive.

The Z/28 will be the one that matters compared to the GT350.

Horsepower is far from everything when it comes to a track car. Just look at the last gen ZL1 vs the last gen Z/28. I mean, it's obviously an important factor but it's not the most important.

And... if the GT500 beats the GT350 on the track I'd find that kind of off-putting considering the GT350 is supposed to be the track king and the GT500 should be the Mustang laughing at the drag strip. Maybe that's just me though. :shrug:

No doubt the jump over its predecessor is impressive, but think about it, with how well the new 1LE apparently performs, you would expect the ZL1 to be significantly faster yes? With those 3 distinct advantages, I would have thought it to be significantly faster than the 350R, much more than supposedly 3 seconds.

And do you really think they won't give the next GT500 the same handling treatment in regards to wide tires and magnetic dampening? I could see it having a narrower front tire, think 275 or 285 maybe, but it will still have sticky tires and a boat load of power. Regardless of whether they don't make the car as stiff or "track ready", if it debuts with 750+hp and essentially not much else different, I have 0 doubt it will beat the 350R's track times.

Yes the 350R is the "track" car, and would probably still be a much more enjoyable and fun car to drive on track, but don't confuse "track king" with "track capability". The next GT500 should easily eclipse the ZL1 if the hp ratings come true, even if it has half of what makes the 350R such an incredibly capable cornering machine.

Huh, good points. The GT3 is an amazing car with a ton of grip, but it does cost what, roughly 3X as much as the Camaro? Plus the flat 6 is not an exciting engine IMO. The worst V8 in the world has to be better sounding than that engine.

I'm seriously concerned that you may be deaf my friend :( :lol:

The flat 6 sounds utterly fantastic, especially under load. They are such fast revving engines that idle revs in youtube clips do not do the engines justice. IMO, there are no other engines in the world that evoke the feeling of a "race car" more than the flat six from a GT Porsche. Personally I would rate the GT3's sound to be equal to the 350R's V8, they just have a truly unique sound that literally sounds like nothing else on the planet, just like our FPC V8.

Good point about the cost, but cost is largely irrelevant when we speak of ultimate lap times. That extra cost will buy you a lifetime worth of durability and quality that you won't find in any American made car; they are simply built to the highest standard of any automaker on the planet.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

That video means nothing to me. Oh wait. I'll compare it to a police camera. So let's see, if a cop shoots someone "without" a camera does it mean it didn't happen and the bad guy didn't really get shot?

I don't get some of you guys, because ford didn't video the gt350R times at the ring you're basically saying ford lied. But even when ford videotaped the gt500 then some say it's not real. Give me a break. I'll agree the ZzzzzzzL1 is fast but this video proves nothing about it being a production car, and even if it is it's still just a supercharged option on a old Z28. I'm sure if GM were to put a supercharger on a gen 5 z28 the results would be about the same.

See my previous post above yours; I personally think the R is capable of a faster time. But Ford has said they would never release "official" times because of the aspects I mentioned, and the only time to have surfaced is from a notoriously bogus site, HP Kings. Like I said, I think it could go faster than it did, no I am not claiming the ZL1's time to be gospel truth either: refer to previous post.

 

[Sasuketr]

Yep, and with 124 more hp, over 220 more tq, and a 10spd auto, 3 seconds is all that can be gained?? Am I the only one thats underwhelmed by its performance? A GT3 is still 4 seconds faster than the ZL1 with 180 less hp and over 300 less tq...

Personally, if all of those BIG advantages plays up to a 3 second gain, I think the new GT500 is going to easily surpass the ZL1. I honestly thought it would do significantly better. For that matter, it didn't even beat a 2006 Corvette Z06's time :shrug:

Well its still a rear wheel drive car with a hefty 3800 plus pounds weight! If it had awd things would be a little bit more interesting. You are also limited with rubber. You can give a car all that power, chasis,handling and all, but its still physics. Everything has its limits.

I do hope the gt500 should come on top, just even put a supercharger on a gt350 r and it might be faster. I love when people compare the new gen cars to old zo6. That old piece of shit amazing mouth drooling machine can get as light as 3100 lbs with a beasty na engine!

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