'17 V6 Build - I bought a Mustang?!?!?!

[Nagare]

For Sync 3, I'm sure you have already with how long it has been, but make sure you have the extended license from the Forscan forum/website activated before going in. Can't do the programming without it and takes a day or two to request access and get approved for it.

Sounds like a great deal on the Borla setup if it comes through. From the different groups I'm in, really seems like it happens with a number of long tube setups and could be solved by adding a defouler or a j pipe to move the O2 sensor out of the direct path.

I don't believe the 11-14 midpipe will fit on our cars though so you may need to get creative on that part.

Sponsored

 

[ctandc72]

For Sync 3, I'm sure you have already with how long it has been, but make sure you have the extended license from the Forscan forum/website activated before going in. Can't do the programming without it and takes a day or two to request access and get approved for it.

Updated that the other night and even downloaded the latest version of the program, but thanks for looking out. I had already made changes using FORSCAN before, so updating the license was instant this time around.

Sounds like a great deal on the Borla setup if it comes through. From the different groups I'm in, really seems like it happens with a number of long tube setups and could be solved by adding a defouler or a j pipe to move the O2 sensor out of the direct path.

I don't believe the 11-14 midpipe will fit on our cars though so you may need to get creative on that part.

The vast majority of long tube Mustang 3.7 setups are BBK. Another issue besides how far away the O2 sensors are moved is using extension harnesses, and also the angle of the O2 sensor bung can collect condensation - not to mention many run the off road pipe with no cats.

As for the mid-pipe it's a straight bolt in replacement. The BBK off road mid pipe and catted mid pipe fit BOTH S550 and previous gen 3.7 Mustangs. They are the same part numbers. So every S550 3.7 with the BBK Long tubes and Off Road or catted mid pipe are using the same part as the earlier models.

And Amazon updated the order today via email. I figured they'd cancel it. NOPE. They simply adjusted the delivery date out a few more days. I'll update if / when it ships. If I get it, I will likely buy two stainless universal cats and have them welded in the mid pipe.

A pic of the Borla XR-1 3.7 setup

 

[ctandc72]

So as far as the order of the Borla headers go - the plot thickens.
So the seller is a 3rd party seller. Amazon had emailed me and told me shipping would delayed a few days - okay.
Then this morning I get an email from the 3rd party seller telling me that they only had ONE in stock and when they pulled it off the shelf it was damaged. They literally walked me through step by step how I could cancel my order OR I could wait until they get another in stock. They advised it would take @ 85 days to get the item back in stock.

First off - I know the pricing was a mistake. I get that. Problem is, Borla doesn't even LIST this part number in their catalog anymore. I've got an email into Borla to see if it's even produced anymore (doubt it). So on the surface the 85 days is BS and they know it. Now if the seller had responded and said "We mispriced this item, the actual price is this..." I would have been perfectly fine with that. The issue is Amazon's policy. And the 3rd party seller knows this.

So I replied the 3rd party seller's email and asked them how badly damaged the item they had in stock was - I would be willing to work with them to take delivery of it. I plan on modifying the mid pipe anyway and adding cats.

I then checked my Amazon order - still active, still valid and of course the lower price I already paid. So I clicked on the 3rd party seller's link and low and behold they show several of the same item # in stock and ready to ship - at the higher price.

So I contacted Amazon support. Layed it all out for them, including the seller's email. Amazon escalated the request, then instructed me NOT to cancel the order. They sent an email to the seller and Amazon asked me to give the seller 2 business days to respond.

So we shall see.

 

[ctandc72]

FYI after more digging it seems you are correct about the mid pipe being different for 15-17 versus 11-14 3.7 cars. At least BBK carries different part numbers for their midpipe for 15-17 versus 11-14, can't get a real grasp on what the actual difference is at this point.

If the Borla purchase doesn't work out either way - I think I'm going to hunt around for a deal on the BBK long tubes and relocate the front 02 sensor locations to where the Borla / AR and OBX headers locate theirs (no extenders needed / no issues with the sensor being too far downstream).

Another option I might consider is the OBX long tubes as well.

Regardless, while surfing Ebay and looking through descriptions - I ended up scoring a set of BBK Ceramic coated headers used from a 2011 Mustang sold my LKQ - for under $200 shipped.

Gonna experiment with relocating the 02 sensor bung on these without cutting about a $400 set of headers.

 

[Nagare]

These were two other options I had looked at:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flowtech-1...stang-3-7L-V6-1-75-Primary-2-5-C/312143350358
^ Still needs a mid-pipe of some sort

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Maximizer-...-2017-Ford-Mustang-3-7L-V6-TiVCT/183341961596
^ says it will fit the 11-17 which leads me to believe it is something to do with the shape of the cats piping on our cars being different. This ones includes the headers, resonators (those aren't cats), and x pipe.

And the issue with the longtube O2s seems to be across the board for the different brands from what I've seen. I'm not going to go back searching through the FB groups to find it. Part of it is the extensions, part of it is the increased flow, part of it is the seat angle with condensation like you mentioned. To avoid the potential CEL issues, I'd just grab defoulers/adapters either way. I went with cheap ones (seller accepted $12 offer) off eBay to start with to see if the better ones were needed and I've had my CEL come on twice in the first week and nothing so far in the second week. If you want to go all the way, these seem to be guaranteed to work.

Unless you need them to pass inspections, I wouldn't bother with the high flow cats because those also seem to fail (supposedly stainless steel will last longer than the ceramic ones though).

 

[ctandc72]

Of course we're talking about 2 different sets of 02 sensors. There are the front 02 sensors - which monitor A/F ratio as the exhaust gases exit the exhaust ports on the engine itself. The problem with BBK's moving the location of the front 02 sensors to the collector of the long tube headers is that it affects not only what A/F ratio these sensors are reading but it affects how quick they come up to temp etc.

Using defoulers to move the 02 sensor further away from the exhaust gas stream won't work on the front 02 sensors. The error here is more about the temp and how far they are from the engine based on the OEM location.

Another issue of course is the location angle of the 02 bungs, which of course can collect condensation generated in the exhaust stream - as a flat angle would allow this to accumulate.

Since I have the BBK headers on the way regardless, I'm simply going to order a set of weld in 02 sensor bungs and locate them in the rear most primary tube of each header as both the Borla, American Racing and OBX headers do. I'll use plugs to block off the existing 02 sensor bungs in the collector area.

As far as the rear 02 sensors, I'm likely going to order a BBK off road pipe for the 15-17, and weld in two small stainless universal converters. To begin with - since pipe is clamp / bolt on and won't be welded, I'll like try the defoulers with no cats just to see what happens.

After doing a bunch of testing several years ago - when I had access to a dyno at the time for free - I've found that cat converters (if in good shape and not clogged etc) do not rob much power at all. Ultimately I'd rather keep them, since VA does do a visual most times.

I'll keep the thread updated as start getting parts in and have time to work on it - around the Bronco project that will kick off in the next few days.

 

[Nagare]

Gotcha, always thought it was the rear sensors that were being moved further downstream and didn't look into it anymore than that.

I definitely noticed an increase in power after the cats were out in my car. I know the high flows are supposed to be pretty close to it as well, but I just didn't want to deal with the failure issues that I read so much about, especially because FL doesn't do any sort of inspections.

 

[ctandc72]

Okay so this gets more interesting - the Borla Long tube order from Amazon again. So Amazon customer service reached out to the seller on my behalf as I stated. Now remember the 3rd party seller responded to ME after my order with a "the one we had in stock was damaged when we pulled it off the shelf, you can wait 85 days (kind of random number) for another to arrive in stock or you can cancel your order." They were even nice enough to walk me through step by step in the email how to cancel the order. I replied asking about the damaged item. And told them if it was too damaged I'd wait the 85 days. At this point, I knew they screwed up the price (as the same item, with the same seller - showing SEVERAL in stock) was no the $1000 price. IF They had replied "we mis-priced this" I would have been good with that. So the seller responds to Amazon's email by cancelling my order. Now no mention of waiting 85 days. Contacted Amazon again. They will contact the seller again and escalate if needed.

Other news:

Finally finished the SYNC 3 upgrade I've had sitting around forever. Shout out to @HextallS550 his harness worked great, he even sent me the FORSCAN worksheet for programming changes and the instruction guide. I was in a hurry and pulled a boneheaded move. The harness came plugged into ITSELF. So of course that's how I installed it. Yes - it was stupid. Tried to test. Got a "No Key detected". The only thing unplugged was the one connector (on my base model) to the bottom of the console. Plugged that in, key detected fine. Touch screen wouldn't power up. Then it dawned on me what I did. Blew it back apart, it fired up, made the programming changes. Worked great.

But of course my '16 EB Premium Sync 3 screen and APIM must have been in a car that was wrecked early in it's life. It had version 1 of the software. The version 3 update wouldn't work. It never failed. In fact it said "Updating system software" and even said it successfully updated - several tried same result.. Software stayed at version 1 even after restarts and master resets. So I searched around found the version 2.2 non nav full upgrade (done in two parts for whatever reason) and that worked. Carplay showed up. Then did the version 3 full update yesterday morning. No memory errors, worked fine.

And I made the changes to use the toggle switches - and I know it's probably placebo - but I swear track mode feels like the throttle is more sensitive. LOL



What is weird is the sound in my speakers. Like I said, I've made all the changes Hextall instructed and the ones I'd searched out and jotted down. While using Slacker Radio, or my USB drive, music plays fine - but the RH (passenger) speakers are considerably lower in volume than the LH side. This is testing using BALANCE pushed that entire way. Master reset, no changes. Play the radio? Works fine. Weird - but at this point not a huge deal...

Waiting on the used ceramic coated BBK long tubes to get here so I can test fit / locate the new weld in 02 sensor bungs I'm going to install on the rear primary tube (mirroring the Borla and American Racing long tube location) and plug off the original locations on the collectors. Getting ready to order an off road BBK pipe - and will run it as is - but might end up welding in some small cats. That route would be about $125 cheaper than just buying the BBK catted pipe.

 

[ctandc72]

So the used BBK ceramic coated headers should arrive today. The Off Road BBK pipe already arrived. I went ahead and ordered (2) sets of the BBK 02 sensor extensions. One is 4 pin for rear (verified pin out by checking OE replacement sensors) and the 6 pin extension for up front. Ordered through Amazon, so if I end up not needing them - no hassle returns.

Right now the plan is to install the headers / mid pipe this weekend, as time to wrench on the Mustang will be in short supply as I've got to get my other house ready to put on the market and the Bronco project that will be taking up the shop. Decided to get it done now.

As of right now, I'm not going to move the BBK upstream 02 sensor location. Every thread I've found on failing upstream 02 sensors when using the BBK longtubes involved S197 3.7 cars. I'm going to make sure the extensions are sealed and routed to keep them from seeing water / crud etc.

Now downstream 02 sensors are another issue. I'm going to order 2 different sets of spark plug defoulers (02 sensor extensions) for the downstream sensors to use on the BBK off road pipe. Regular size and some L-shaped extenders.

I was curious so I emailed MPT to see if they tell me a tune update is needed when going from shorty headers to long tubes.

If anyone knows of anyone who wants a complete ready install fog light setup install for their S550 - let me know. On the fence whether I'm going to install it. If someone wants it I'll give them a good price. Includes new take off housings and foglights (the complete bolt in piece to replace the deletes in the bumper cover) plus the Starkey wiring harness with the OE Ford headlight switch with fog light button (unopened with instructions). The harness alone is $299. I'd sell the complete setup for $350.

 

[Nagare]

Also curious as to whether or not they'll see a need to revise the tune for you. I got an all clear for both the ported intakes and the cat deletes, but maybe with the relocated (compared to OEM) O2 bung, they'll see a need.

 

[ctandc72]

Also curious as to whether or not they'll see a need to revise the tune for you. I got an all clear for both the ported intakes and the cat deletes, but maybe with the relocated (compared to OEM) O2 bung, they'll see a need.

Gotta give MPT Credit - I emailed them late last night. They responded a few minutes ago that long tube headers would require a tune update and noted that the with the off road mid pipe I would get CEL lights (02 sensors) and they legally cannot modify smog controls (turn off the rear O2 sensors). I had to pay $25 for tune update (modifications added) and completed the tune form.

02 sensor extender / defoulers ordered. Ordered a pair of regular and a pair of L-shaped.

 

[ctandc72]

So yeah, I guess making plans to install the headers this weekend was a bit premature. The header from LKQOnline via Ebay arrived yesterday. I did not forget to add a 's' - HEADER and is one header. As in not even packed, wrapped or boxed, they literally slapped a UPS slip on the header itself. Pictures here in my thread prove that the auction is for a PAIR of headers - so I contacted the seller (again it's LKQ and I've dealt with them before) and they immediately responded through Ebay asking for pictures of the item received etc. I sent this off last night. Waiting for a response now.

Because time to work on the car will literally be non-existent for quite a while - I am very tempted to go ahead and buy a new set of of the BBK headers so I can get them installed this weekend. (American Muscle in PA is inside the 1 day shipping zone to my area in VA so UPS ground gets here in 1 day).

On the plus side - if LKQ ends up getting me the other header, I can relocate the upstream 02 sensor locations, get the new bungs welded in, blast them and have them coated locally and then sell the other set. Still on the fence.

Also - I enabled the drive modes via the toggle switches on the Premium radio bezel when I did the Sync 3 swap. I wouldn't have thought the modes would actually be functional in a base car - but I swear that Track mode - the throttle is a GOOD BIT more responsive.

 

[ctandc72]

So nothing from Amazon on the Borlas - which I'm fine with - the 3rd party seller cancelled my order, I just wish they would have been honest.
Then the ONE header from LKQ (Ebay) shows up. Not packed, UPS sticker slapped on it. They've already agreed for a full refund and are sending me a return label.

Went ahead and ordered the headers from AM and they arrive today. Will work on getting them installed in the morning. I'll try to remember to take some pictures.

MPT already sent an updated tune file for all my tunes for the Long Tubes.

 

[USMCtoARMY]

Longtubes have some good gains, but they are very loud, lol. This probably locks you into a procharger setup for the future instead of turbo options, but you can't go wrong with procharger.

 

[USMCtoARMY]

So nothing from Amazon on the Borlas - which I'm fine with - the 3rd party seller cancelled my order, I just wish they would have been honest.
Then the ONE header from LKQ (Ebay) shows up. Not packed, UPS sticker slapped on it. They've already agreed for a full refund and are sending me a return label.

Went ahead and ordered the headers from AM and they arrive today. Will work on getting them installed in the morning. I'll try to remember to take some pictures.

MPT already sent an updated tune file for all my tunes for the Long Tubes.

Sucks I was hoping you would get lucky and get the complete Borla setup cheap. Would have been such a win, lol.

Sponsored