Upgrade FMIC, or add WMI, without changing the tune on the car?

J.P.B. · Nov 6, 2017

The basic question:
Given comparable costs, should I upgrade the FMIC (looking at the ATM intercooler), or add water/meth injection (with NO change in the tune)?

The car:
- 2015 ecoboost mustang with the FP ProCal tune and CAI. I also run the NGK LTR7IX-11 (6510; 1-step colder) plugs and a UPR crankcase breather, but I expect that the plugs and breather are trivial factors. It’s a manual transmission car with 3:31 gears, and I can do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.

How I use the car:
- The daily drive this car for most of the year. I also do track days at my local track (AMP: 1.6 mile road course with 11 turns) as frequently as I can. I have upgraded brakes, and I run square stance 275 tires.

Perceived pros and cons of upgrading the FMIC:
- Benefits can be achieved without a tune.
- Make expected power under a wider range of conditions by cooling pressurized air; the ECU being less likely to retard timing.
- Decease risk of pre-ignition (through cooling).
- Increase in weight over stock FMIC. [con]
- Possible increase in lag? [con]
- Still octane limited. [con]

Perceived pros and cons of water/meth injection (assume no change in the ECM tune)
- Snow performance claims benefits can be achieved without a tune.
- Decrease temperature by up to 100 degrees more than a FMIC (?)
- Decease risk of pre-ignition.
- I am stuck with 91 octane pump gas; with 50/50 mix, octane could be approx 116?
- With high octane, presumably the limitations imposed by the ECU for 91 pump gas will be lifted, timing will be advanced, and hp gains will be realized?
- Valve cleaning?
- Extend engine life?
- The water/meth reservoir has to be refilled. [con]
- Possibly impact warranty. [con]

Based on the how I perceive the pros and cons, I think the water/meth injection might come out on top. But this is my first turbocharged car, so I am looking for advice from those with more experience. I am also relying quite a lot on the Snow Performance promotional material, and I have not met anyone with direct experience with WMI who has not tuned the car to take advantage of it.

Also, I did try to find a thread that covered this. If you know of one, please point me in that direction.

Many many thanks in advance.

Ebm · Nov 6, 2017

.

J.P.B. said:
The basic question:
Given comparable costs, should I upgrade the FMIC (looking at the ATM intercooler), or add water/meth injection (with NO change in the tune)?

The car:
- 2015 ecoboost mustang with the FP ProCal tune and CAI. I also run the NGK LTR7IX-11 (6510; 1-step colder) plugs and a UPR crankcase breather, but I expect that the plugs and breather are trivial factors. It’s a manual transmission car with 3:31 gears, and I can do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.

How I use the car:
- The daily drive this car for most of the year. I also do track days at my local track (AMP: 1.6 mile road course with 11 turns) as frequently as I can. I have upgraded brakes, and I run square stance 275 tires.

Perceived pros and cons of upgrading the FMIC:
- Benefits can be achieved without a tune.
- Make expected power under a wider range of conditions by cooling pressurized air; the ECU being less likely to retard timing.
- Decease risk of pre-ignition (through cooling).
- Increase in weight over stock FMIC. [con]
- Possible increase in lag? [con]
- Still octane limited. [con]

Perceived pros and cons of water/meth injection (assume no change in the ECM tune)
- Snow performance claims benefits can be achieved without a tune.
- Decrease temperature by up to 100 degrees more than a FMIC (?)
- Decease risk of pre-ignition.
- I am stuck with 91 octane pump gas; with 50/50 mix, octane could be approx 116?
- With high octane, presumably the limitations imposed by the ECU for 91 pump gas will be lifted, timing will be advanced, and hp gains will be realized?
- Valve cleaning?
- Extend engine life?
- The water/meth reservoir has to be refilled. [con]
- Possibly impact warranty. [con]

Based on the how I perceive the pros and cons, I think the water/meth injection might come out on top. But this is my first turbocharged car, so I am looking for advice from those with more experience. I am also relying quite a lot on the Snow Performance promotional material, and I have not met anyone with direct experience with WMI who has not tuned the car to take advantage of it.

Also, I did try to find a thread that covered this. If you know of one, please point me in that direction.

Many many thanks in advance.

No point in running wmi without tuning for it, especially on FP tune. You could get a 91 or 93 tune running 91 and wmi and you would see some good gains.

I'd go FMIC if you aren't getting a tune tailored to wmi's benefits(higher octane tune).

DUNDEM · Nov 6, 2017

J.P.B. said:
The basic question:
Given comparable costs, should I upgrade the FMIC (looking at the ATM intercooler), or add water/meth injection (with NO change in the tune)?

The car:
- 2015 ecoboost mustang with the FP ProCal tune and CAI. I also run the NGK LTR7IX-11 (6510; 1-step colder) plugs and a UPR crankcase breather, but I expect that the plugs and breather are trivial factors. It’s a manual transmission car with 3:31 gears, and I can do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.

How I use the car:
- The daily drive this car for most of the year. I also do track days at my local track (AMP: 1.6 mile road course with 11 turns) as frequently as I can. I have upgraded brakes, and I run square stance 275 tires.

Perceived pros and cons of upgrading the FMIC:
- Benefits can be achieved without a tune.
- Make expected power under a wider range of conditions by cooling pressurized air; the ECU being less likely to retard timing.
- Decease risk of pre-ignition (through cooling).
- Increase in weight over stock FMIC. [con]
- Possible increase in lag? [con]
- Still octane limited. [con]

Perceived pros and cons of water/meth injection (assume no change in the ECM tune)
- Snow performance claims benefits can be achieved without a tune.
- Decrease temperature by up to 100 degrees more than a FMIC (?)
- Decease risk of pre-ignition.
- I am stuck with 91 octane pump gas; with 50/50 mix, octane could be approx 116?
- With high octane, presumably the limitations imposed by the ECU for 91 pump gas will be lifted, timing will be advanced, and hp gains will be realized?
- Valve cleaning?
- Extend engine life?
- The water/meth reservoir has to be refilled. [con]
- Possibly impact warranty. [con]

Based on the how I perceive the pros and cons, I think the water/meth injection might come out on top. But this is my first turbocharged car, so I am looking for advice from those with more experience. I am also relying quite a lot on the Snow Performance promotional material, and I have not met anyone with direct experience with WMI who has not tuned the car to take advantage of it.

Also, I did try to find a thread that covered this. If you know of one, please point me in that direction.

Many many thanks in advance.

FMIC for the WIN! Not even close. PM ATM for there code and thank us later.

ZenkaiRacer · Nov 6, 2017

I think most people underestimate WMI. Like you said you would see the benifits of the charge air decreasing and octane boost.

But if your road coursing it, I'm not sure a tank of the juice would last.

I'm going with both since I'm also 91oct limited and theres no e85 near me at all.

I already have the intercooler installed, and I have a WMI kit thats just been chilling in the box that was meant for my DSM that I wont be putting on that anymore... so...

J.P.B. · Nov 7, 2017

ZenkaiRacer: I think I will do the FMIC next, but I would very much like to hear your assessment of the WMI (without tune) after you get in installed to see if will help those of us who are 91 octane limited and don't have access to e85.

Manders Mustang · Nov 7, 2017

am I missing something? surely you have to be stupid to think you could run either of these mods without a tune? Intercooler less so, but the car is ECU controlled it has target it's trying to hit. don't confuse it or cry if it blows the engine. Tune the mods in that's my 2cents.

Phil@JDM · Nov 7, 2017

Intercooler doesn't need a tune update but the water meth does if you want to get the most out of it and run it properly

J.P.B. · Nov 7, 2017

Manders Mustang said:
am I missing something? surely you have to be stupid to think you could run either of these mods without a tune? Intercooler less so, but the car is ECU controlled it has target it's trying to hit. don't confuse it or cry if it blows the engine. Tune the mods in that's my 2cents.

Snow performance claims that a tune is not required to run WMI safely. But the consensus opinion here seems to be that there is little to be gained by doing so.

Manders Mustang · Nov 7, 2017

Phil@JDM said:
Intercooler doesn't need a tune update but the water meth does if you want to get the most out of it and run it properly

Does it you want to extract the power out of it? then probably want to tune it in. :thumbsup:

dgc333 · Nov 7, 2017

The first mod I made to my 17 Ecoboost Mustang was to upgrade the intercooler. It had zero impact on the driveability but did make a noticeable power improvement above 5000 rpm.

I have since added the FP tune and deleted the resonator. Compared to my 15 which had an an aftermarket tune, cat back and CAI but still had the stock Intercooler the 17 is noticeablely stronger on top and not quite as strong down low. The FP tune keeps the boost around 20 psi until you are over 4k rpm where the aftermarket would go right to 23 psi.

J.P.B. · Nov 7, 2017

dgc333 said:
The first mod I made to my 17 Ecoboost Mustang was to upgrade the intercooler. It had zero impact on the driveability but did make a noticeable power improvement above 5000 rpm.

I have since added the FP tune and deleted the resonator. Compared to my 15 which had an an aftermarket tune, cat back and CAI but still had the stock Intercooler the 17 is noticeablely stronger on top and not quite as strong down low. The FP tune keeps the boost around 20 psi until you are over 4k rpm where the aftermarket would go right to 23 psi.

Thanks for the info. If you don't mind: what intercooler do you have?

dgc333 · Nov 7, 2017

It's a Rev9, stock location unit looks similar to a Mishimoto or CPE.

Juben · Nov 7, 2017

You can run either on the stock tune without worry. For the intercooler, it'll keep charge air temps in check and allow the factory calibration to operate at 100% of it's capabilities/limits. For the WMI, you would have the cooling benefit of reduced charge air temps (CATs) and extra octane, which is always a great idea, but I don't think you'd see the temperature drop with WMI that you would with an upgraded FMIC.

The question everyone should be asking is do you have any plans beyond what you've told us? That would help guide my opinion on what would be most beneficial to you. In most cases, I'd always say to do an intercooler as a first mod for a variety of reasons, but you've posed a very interesting question here.

In most cases, the CAT reduction with WMI is going to be 30°-40° (F) from what it was. So if CATs are 150°, then you'd probably see 110°-120° CATs with meth. With an intercooler, if ambient temp (IATs) is 85°, then you'd probably see 95°-100° CATs.

Adding WMI would improve CATs, but you also have to consider other aspects of the crappy factory intercooler, such as flow characteristics. I'd bet a large sum of money that almost every aftermarket FMIC has better flow and less pressure drop than the factory unit.

But again, if you're not worried about balls-out performance all of the time and have lower quality/octane gas in your area, the WMI might offer some attractive benefits.

Phil@JDM · Nov 7, 2017

Manders Mustang said:
Does it you want to extract the power out of it? then probably want to tune it in.

what parameters in the tune do you change exactly to optimize an upgraded intercooler?

Manders Mustang · Nov 7, 2017

Phil@JDM said:
what parameters in the tune do you change exactly to optimize an upgraded intercooler?

the power bit. Fuck knows i aint a tuner. I guess it just means you can push things a bit up as it's cooler and not soaking.

Upgrade FMIC, or add WMI, without changing the tune on the car?

J.P.B.

Active Member

Ebm

Well-Known Member

DUNDEM

Well-Known Member

ZenkaiRacer

Well-Known Member

J.P.B.

Active Member

Manders Mustang

The Boss

Phil@JDM

Well-Known Member

J.P.B.

Active Member

Manders Mustang

The Boss

dgc333

Well-Known Member

J.P.B.

Active Member

dgc333

Well-Known Member

Juben

Well-Known Member

Phil@JDM

Well-Known Member

Manders Mustang

The Boss

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