2018 GT vs 2016 Camaro - Track Times Compared w/Video

1320' · Nov 12, 2017

thehunterooo said:
Would be pointless for anyone. They already stated so many things that are way out there like the 15-17 cars not being able to break into the 12s stock (again I guess the fast list on here is fake), the 18 will not run a 12.5 etc. People are complaining on there that LMR is doing shady things and cherry picked the best time they ran so it does not mean anything. And going after beefcake as well. A Camaro runs a 11.7 the same day as the 2018 LMR pass and now every Camaro runs a 11.7 now. There has been constant complaining about hero times and about how the Mustang hero times don’t count but every SS is a 11 second car. I just don’t understand the logic.

And that’s just a scratch on the surface. Blaq claimed that the 6th gen Camaro has zero issues basically ( there are a ton of threads on there talking about the made up issues but I guess it was a bunch of Mustang trolls on there). There is no debating or reasoning with someone who has a grudge like that or the others on there that are obsessed with the Mustang. C6G had a thread for the LMR time almost a day before there was one on here.

Preach!

Baron95 · Nov 12, 2017

stanglife said:
I've thought about this and I don't know that it will be a huge detractor. You're always going to have a few that complain about it overheating or demand that it's a track car because of some logic (came with PSC2s?!) and that it should have also had this or that... but the reality is many, many people don't take even the GT350s to the track.

GT350 is (perceived or real) a near-collector, halo, image car, as a much as a track-intended car.

The PP2 is simply being marketed as the track-intended version of a regular Mustang GT. You are likely to see the largest percentage of owners with PP2 hitting the track than other mustangs in the past.

And you can only complain of overheating if the car overheats. There has been no substantial overheating complaints with the SS 1LE, which proves that you can have a $44K car that does well on track and street without drama and without overheating.

That fact that Ford is marketing PP2 for the track and yet tells owners in its manual that if they track it they need to put warranty voiding coolers is simply ridiculous.

Any attempt to explain it away looks even more ridiculous. Nice try though.

Dominant1 · Nov 12, 2017

The pp2 is just a package to turn a regular poor handling stock gt suspension into a more athletic Gt on the “street”! Its not intended for the track if it was it would have all the supporting upgrades needed to drive it hard lap after lap after lap. The only mustang Ford has for that kind of performance is the gt-350R. The pp2 will be no where near the lap times of an R on any track!

Baron95 · Nov 12, 2017

Dominant1 said:
The pp2 is just a package to turn a regular poor handling stock gt suspension into a more athletic Gt on the “street”! Its not intended for the track

The first two sentences from the Ford Press Release on the PP2 are:

"Evenings in the garage. Weekends at the track."

PP2 is just a package, the same way that 1LE is just a package and that the GT350 Track Package was just a package. A track-intended package.

Again. Any attempt to excuse why Ford's track-intended and marketed as such package can't handle the track without warranty voiding coolers is and will always be ridiculous.

Dominant1 · Nov 12, 2017

Baron95 said:
The first two sentences from the Ford Press Release on the PP2 are:

"Evenings in the garage. Weekends at the track."

PP2 is just a package, the same way that 1LE is just a package and that the GT350 Track Package was just a package. A track-intended package.

Again. Any attempt to excuse why Ford's track-intended and marketed as such package can't handle the track without warranty voiding coolers is and will always be ridiculous.

How much faith do you have in corporate press releases? I have none. I don't care what they say, i care about what it really is! And its not a hard core track car like the gt-350R!

Baron95 · Nov 12, 2017

Dominant1 said:
How much faith do you have in corporate press releases?

It has nothing to do with faith.

The Mustang's chief competitor puts out a 1LE package that performs very well on track without overheating and without requiring any aftermarket coolers and the like, and has full warranty backing for track use.

Ford responds with the PP2 with track tires, low splitters, etc, and puts out press releases indicating that it is intended for the track. Yet, they leave out all the needed coolers and tell owners that if they want to track it they need to install aftermarket coolers, that, by the way, void the warranty.

I am simply pointing out that this is ridiculous. And anyone trying to excuse or explain away Ford's decision to do so is also ridiculous and is not helping the brand. All this IMHO. You are free to swing by Ford's nuts all you want.

Dominant1 · Nov 12, 2017

Everyone hears what your saying but what i’m saying is no matter how rediculous it may seem its all about the cars not what Ford is projecting this car to be. The mustang will continue to outsell Camaro despite all the Corporate bs!

millhouse · Nov 12, 2017

Baron95 said:
It has nothing to do with faith.

The Mustang's chief competitor puts out a 1LE package that performs very well on track without overheating and without requiring any aftermarket coolers and the like, and has full warranty backing for track use.

Ford responds with the PP2 with track tires, low splitters, etc, and puts out press releases indicating that it is intended for the track. Yet, they leave out all the needed coolers and tell owners that if they want to track it they need to install aftermarket coolers, that, by the way, void the warranty.

I am simply pointing out that this is ridiculous. And anyone trying to excuse or explain away Ford's decision to do so is also ridiculous and is not helping the brand. All this IMHO. You are free to swing by Ford's nuts all you want.

Aftermarket coolers don't void the warranty lol.

And exactly how many 15-17 Gt's have you heard about blowing up transmissions, rear ends or transmissions at the track?

It's also funny, how many owners do you think actually take out track insurance if they get hit or wreck?

My point is, lack of a warranty (or insurance) never stopped anyone from tracking their cars before. GM's more generous track warranty doesn't sell more vehicles...which is really the bottom line here.

Baron95 · Nov 12, 2017

Dominant1 said:
no matter how rediculous it may seem its all about the cars

I agree. And I hope the PP2 turns out terrific, and that it can be effectively managed on track to run 20-30 min sessions without overheating.

I am likely buying one if that is the case.

As to who outsells who, I could care less. I do care about there being enough PP2s and 1LE cars out there so that any problems surface quickly and are addressed with solutions.

P.S. I still think the PP2 will be a lot closer to your 350R on certain tracks than you think.

Baron95 · Nov 12, 2017

millhouse said:
And exactly how many 15-17 Gt's have you heard about blowing up transmissions, rear ends or transmissions at the track?

I have personally seen and helped 2 with blown clutches, and have personally driven one that went into limp mode after ~5min, and subsequently went limp mode after about 15 min with my student driving it. I have seen two venting their rear end oil after tracking. I have not seen any with blown engines.

Does that adequately answer your condescending question?

millhouse · Nov 12, 2017

Baron95 said:
I have personally seen and helped 2 with blown clutches, and have personally driven one that went into limp mode after ~5min, and subsequently went limp mode after about 15 min with my student driving it. I have seen two venting their rear end oil after tracking. I have not seen any with blown engines.

Does that adequately answer your condescending question?

Shitty drivers? Bad luck?

Funny though, out of 27 pages in the track subforum, there is not one mention of running into track mode or clutch failure for the 15-17GT.

People have no problem spending thousands of dollars on upgraded pads, rotors, wheels, tires and fluids...but cant spend less than $500 on installing aftermarket coolers for their track sessions?

bluebeastsrt · Nov 12, 2017

Baron95 said:
I have personally seen and helped 2 with blown clutches, and have personally driven one that went into limp mode after ~5min, and subsequently went limp mode after about 15 min with my student driving it. I have seen two venting their rear end oil after tracking. I have not seen any with blown engines.

Does that adequately answer your condescending question?

Reallllllllly?:lol:

16 GT MM/Auto · Nov 12, 2017

Video Message From 2018 Mustang GT Associated Forums To 2016+ Camaro SS Forums ...

[ame]

thehunterooo · Nov 12, 2017

Baron95 said:
I have personally seen and helped 2 with blown clutches, and have personally driven one that went into limp mode after ~5min, and subsequently went limp mode after about 15 min with my student driving it. I have seen two venting their rear end oil after tracking. I have not seen any with blown engines.

Does that adequately answer your condescending question?

You made that up!

Trackaholic · Nov 13, 2017

I wouldn’t be surprised with limp mode on a GT350 without the coolers. That is a well known issue. I don’t think the 2015-2017 “regular” mustangs have temp sensors in the transmission or differential, so I don’t think they would hit a limp mode, but might leak fluid if it overheats.

I do believe the 2018’s have the temp sensors, so limp mode might be much more common. I realize the number of track enthusiasts is small, but I do wish Ford would step up and include coolers at least as part of a Ford Performance option that would not cause any warranty concern.

I think that would be good for their reputation and brand image. It will be interesting to see how the PP2 does in any comparison testing.

-T

2018 GT vs 2016 Camaro - Track Times Compared w/Video

1320'

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Baron95

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Dominant1

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Baron95

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Dominant1

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Baron95

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Dominant1

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millhouse

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Baron95

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Baron95

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millhouse

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bluebeastsrt

Oh boy

16 GT MM/Auto

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thehunterooo

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Trackaholic

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