2018 GT low rpm engine rattle, cylinder damage pics, Ford buyback process

Was able to get some pics just before the dealer shipped the old short block back to Ford. The most damage was to cylinder 8 (top pic) which was probably causing the rattle. Cylinder 2 (middle pic) was also damaged. the bottom pic is right side (#1-4).

I'm no engine expert, so I wouldn't recognize cylinder damage - can you point it out in the pics? Is it that darker stripe up the side of the cylinder?

The last pic has dark markings that are not lined up with the thrust side of the piston but they also still show cross hatch marks visible through them. This indicates the markings are not cut into the bore but just discolored. I still don't see how these dark marks equal rattle noises. If you can feel vertical scratch marks in the bore then that may point to a piston ring or piston problem that is causing the markings and the noise but the bore markings themselves are not likely causing the noise.

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mvfjet said:

Ok thanks. She just took my phone # and asked me about the issues and how and when they happen. I asked her if a regional rep will get in contact with me and she said no, that I'll need to be in contact with my dealer.

If my car is out of service for more than a couple weeks, how do I start a buyback/vehicle replacement? I paid for my car in full so just wondering if that makes it essier for me.

I bet they're gonna tell me the noises are normal and take the car home lol.

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In California, a vehicle is presumed to be a “lemon" by the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act if, within 18 months of the vehicle's delivery to the buyer (or 18,000 miles on the odometer):

2 attempts or more have been made by the manufacturer to repair a warranty problem that could result in death or serious injury.
The manufacturer has attempted to repair the same warranty problem at least 4 times.
The car has been out of service for 30 days or more for repair to warranty problems.
Problems to the vehicle are not the result of abuse by the owner.

Not sure if ford will go for it unless the law provides for it. although one guy in here said he was doing a buyback, but I dont know his specific circumstances. iirc the f150 guys were scoring ESPs when the 3.5 ecoboost first came out and ran into issues, so thats an option as well.

Storm728 said:

In California, a vehicle is presumed to be a “lemon" by the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act if, within 18 months of the vehicle's delivery to the buyer (or 18,000 miles on the odometer):

2 attempts or more have been made by the manufacturer to repair a warranty problem that could result in death or serious injury.
The manufacturer has attempted to repair the same warranty problem at least 4 times.
The car has been out of service for 30 days or more for repair to warranty problems.
Problems to the vehicle are not the result of abuse by the owner.

Not sure if ford will go for it unless the law provides for it. although one guy in here said he was doing a buyback, but I dont know his specific circumstances. iirc the f150 guys were scoring ESPs when the 3.5 ecoboost first came out and ran into issues, so thats an option as well.

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Ford will adhere to the state Lemon Law when it agrees to a buyback (vehicle replacement or cash refund). Since I am CA, they followed the rules that you noted. Mine fell into the 2 attempts or more to repair a warranty problem that could result in death or serious injury. The first attempt was when my original dealer said the rattle was normal. The second attempt was where the dealer diagnosed the issue but the car was in the shop for 3 consecutive weeks when I requested that Ford do a Lemon Law review. They approved it within a few days.

The Owner's Manual walks you through the steps to take and how to contact both Ford and BBB. I also sent a notification letter to Ford because I claimed the 2 attempts as the Lemon Law justification. In my letter I stated that since the issue was damage to the cylinder block in a "high performance engine" that this was an issue that could lead to death or serious injury.

mvfjet said:

Ok thanks. She just took my phone # and asked me about the issues and how and when they happen. I asked her if a regional rep will get in contact with me and she said no, that I'll need to be in contact with my dealer.

If my car is out of service for more than a couple weeks, how do I start a buyback/vehicle replacement? I paid for my car in full so just wondering if that makes it essier for me.

I bet they're gonna tell me the noises are normal and take the car home lol.

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If they say it is normal, then take it to another dealer. That's what happened to me. Be sure to get a repair order for all visits, even if they say it is normal. Refer to the Owner's Manual for steps to follow for Lemon Law.

mvfjet said:

Here's my work order. I told them it was so loud it bounces off of walls.

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Nice. Also communicate everything via text and keep the messages. There are software apps that allow you to download texts to PC. I included all my text conversations with the dealer in my Lemon Law claim with Ford.

Lonmon said:

The last pic has dark markings that are not lined up with the thrust side of the piston but they also still show cross hatch marks visible through them. This indicates the markings are not cut into the bore but just discolored. I still don't see how these dark marks equal rattle noises. If you can feel vertical scratch marks in the bore then that may point to a piston ring or piston problem that is causing the markings and the noise but the bore markings themselves are not likely causing the noise.

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All I have to go on is that the heavy line tech said the vertical marks on #8 were from piston slap. My car only has 1,500 miles on it. He said the new engine works perfect with no rattles. But I'm not taking any more chances with the 2018.

mvfjet said:

You should ask to drive it. I just drove my buddies A10 2018 Mustang GT and his doesn't have the rattle. His engine is so much quieter than my car's engine just reving it out. I told him you can feel the vibration from the rattle so he's lucky he doesn't have it. His car has 5000 miles on it.

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Yes, it's great to hear there are non-rattling GT's out there lol! I thought about driving it, but at this point I'm done with this one and don't want to do anything to jeopardize the buyback. Car has been at the dealer since April 17th.

usgiorgi said:

I'm sorry but 12:1 compression should merit tolerances tight enough that the components don't rattle. There's a lot of force behind these moving parts and the rattling means those forces can cause damage. There's a reason why bearing tolerances are measured to the thousands of an inch. Usually, the difference between the rod and the main bearings are 3 thousands of an inch. That's the space for oil to lube the bearings.

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maybe you didnt know this but high performance engines usually have looser clearances than passenger car engines, they make more noise until components warm up and expand. 12.0 compression means nothing load wise on parts other than higher octane requirement to prevent detonation. that piston is not stressed any more by the extra 1.0 of compression. if that were the case all these forced induction mustangs would have collapsed pistons from running 10 psi boost. and to the person who said all years prior to this had forged pistons , i'm pretty sure you are incorrect. I remember the 11-14 coyote engines having cylinder 8 issues and those pistons were NOT forged.

Bald Menace said:

maybe you didnt know this but high performance engines usually have looser clearances than passenger car engines, they make more noise until components warm up and expand. 12.0 compression means nothing load wise on parts other than higher octane requirement to prevent detonation. that piston is not stressed any more by the extra 1.0 of compression. if that were the case all these forced induction mustangs would have collapsed pistons from running 10 psi boost. and to the person who said all years prior to this had forged pistons , i'm pretty sure you are incorrect. I remember the 11-14 coyote engines having cylinder 8 issues and those pistons were NOT forged.

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You are correct. No coyote's ever had forged pistons. Except for aluminators, that is.

:focus:Congratulations to the future lucky winners with the low rpm rattle!!!:first::cheers:

I don't want to open the flood gates or anything and hopefully people on here will be able to get some sleep tonight. I think I've mentioned the fact that I have the low rpm rattle under light load in this thread before. I definitely mentioned in in my flywheel/clutch grind thread and have the rattle on video in there. In my case the rattle doesn't go away when the engine is up to operating temperature. I didn't make much of it up to this point and was planning to just keep the motor stock, keep and eye on the oil level and get used oil analysis done after every change to start with.

Well, I got home from work this afternoon and as I was about to back into the garage, I heard the engine knocking. Made a couple of videos and yup...it's knocking.

My advice to everyone with any sort of abnormal engine noises is to keep their engines stock until either more information is available or your particular engine has had some time to accumulate hard mileage and prove that it's durable.

Here is my video of the flywheel/clutch grind. You can hear the low rpm engine rattle between 4:55 and 5:30. The car had been driven for about an hour before this, so everything was up to operating temperature.

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Here is my video today where you can hear the knocking. Headphones and higher volume levels are recommended.

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Of course the low rpm rattle could be completely normal and my engine taking a dump could be just a coincidence.;)

Some nice heel-toe there. In your 2nd video...thats what I do EVERYDAY when I get home. Close my garage and sit there and listen...and listen....and listen...and....:headbonk::headbonk: That knocking/clunking at the end of the 2nd vid sounds very abnormal. My "rattle" is definitely getting worse(@1300miles). i keep telling myself, "that's how you know its a super snake.....dat rattle."

You can hear the knock throughout the entire second video. Just need to put on headphones and crank up the volume. I can also feel it through the pedals and shifter. The engine is done.