so is Ford going to develop a tranny cooler for us 16 tech/base owners?

Old Car Guy · Feb 19, 2016

No....

Caballus said:
I already have plans to dump this car as soon as possible and get an M3. My first Mustang was a 67. My last Ford will be a 2016. It is what it is.

No offense, but when my 350 shows up, I'm keeping it..... And my first Mustang was a 1965 when I came home from seas in 1966 ( US Navy ) Vietnam vet. In my book this is probably the best Mustang that has been made to date.... :cheers: :thumbsup:

John

bdub85 · Feb 19, 2016

Old Car Guy said:
No offense, but when my 350 shows up, I'm keeping it..... And my first Mustang was a 1965 when I came home from seas in 1966 ( US Navy ) Vietnam vet. In my book this is probably the best Mustang that has been made to date.... :cheers: John

Thanks for your service!

You will absolutely love this car. My dad had a 69 Fastback, and his jaw dropped over my GT350. This car is just really freaking badass. I love it.

Rogue · Feb 19, 2016

Caballus said:
The M3 will be US spec, not European spec.

Been in Europe for a while. No problem selling the GT350 and having the warranty remain in place. Have already had offers to buy, starting at €90K, and that's knowing that I have to keep it for at least a year--easy price for Germany or Switzerland. Given the recent news, however, that price will certainly drop and buyers will opt instead for a 2017 or beyond. No doubt. Link below worth a click.

Thanks for the well-wishes.

http://www.schropp-tuning.com

2017 is the same as the 2016 Shelby GT350 Track Pack and the R - won't affect these cars one bit if not make them even more valuable.

It's weird how some people are trying to rate the entire Shelby GT350 lineup off the lack of cooling on the street intended Technology package.

SpursFan · Feb 19, 2016

Old Car Guy said:
No offense, but when my 350 shows up, I'm keeping it..... And my first Mustang was a 1965 when I came home from seas in 1966 ( US Navy ) Vietnam vet. In my book this is probably the best Mustang that has been made to date.... :cheers: John

It's is! Thank you for your service!

stanglife · Feb 21, 2016

Hack said:
Can you admit publicly why you continue to miss characterize the situation?

Missed this one. What am I not admitting that I should admit publicly?

I'm just in for the debate. I simply think there is more evidence that if someone wanted to track the car, that they should have bought the track package vs evidence that a tech car would have no problems at the track. They made a track pack car with coolers and omitted them on the tech car. No one thought that could be a problem for a tech car at the track? The engineers just put them in there for the hell of it? Most significantly - there were 100% track and R models at all of the Track Tour events last year...not a tech pack in sight. I'm just talking about putting 2+2 together here. I'm not saying that nothing at all should be done but this, "I was lied to" and "How was I supposed to know" from a group of presumably smart people just drives me nuts.

/rant

mattlqx · Feb 21, 2016

stanglife said:
I simply think there is more evidence that if someone wanted to track the car, that they should have bought the track package vs evidence that a tech car would have no problems at the track. They made a track pack car with coolers and omitted them on the tech car. No one thought that could be a problem for a tech car at the track? The engineers just put them in there for the hell of it? Most significantly - there were 100% track and R models at all of the Track Tour events last year...not a tech pack in sight.

Okay, I'm tired of this crap. Here's the deal. Ford has requirements on what they can call "Track". Here's what they are: 30 minute driving session meeting minimum time requirements for the track (i.e. not granny driving it), 30 minute rest period, repeat for 12 hours. If the car cannot complete that test, Ford self-regulates that they will not call something "Track". The Mustang GT was not able to meet this requirement and thus it has as a "Performance Package", not a "Track Package".

Now, what's reasonable expectation for something that does not meet those requirements? Is being able to run a single complete 20 minute session from cold start unreasonable? Should it be reasonably expected that it run a single lap on track at all? Who knows but I do know there is a ridiculous amount of room between 1 lap and Ford's "Track Package" requirements. To not be able to add a free-standing option for the coolers, anybody that didn't want a base interior was forced into a situation of simply hoping for the best that they could use their most track-focused Mustang ever on the track occasionally and not be let down. I surely didn't expect it to meet Ford's "Track" definition, but I didn't want that. A few 20 minute sessions with 1-2 hours cooldown in between would've been perfectly fine for me.

Stop placing blame, it's flipping ridiculous. I don't even blame Ford for anything. But if they didn't offer the '16 GT350 with asinine either-or options packages, we wouldn't be sitting here on a forum telling other people on the internet that they're wrong.

stanglife · Feb 21, 2016

mattlqx said:
Okay, I'm tired of this crap. Here's the deal. Ford has requirements on what they can call "Track". Here's what they are: 30 minute driving session meeting minimum time requirements for the track (i.e. not granny driving it), 30 minute rest period, repeat for 12 hours. If the car cannot complete that test, Ford self-regulates that they will not call something "Track". The Mustang GT was not able to meet this requirement and thus it has as a "Performance Package", not a "Track Package".

Now, what's reasonable expectation for something that does not meet those requirements? Is being able to run a single complete 20 minute session from cold start unreasonable? Should it be reasonably expected that it run a single lap on track at all? Who knows but I do know there is a ridiculous amount of room between 1 lap and Ford's "Track Package" requirements. To not be able to add a free-standing option for the coolers, anybody that didn't want a base interior was forced into a situation of simply hoping for the best that they could use their most track-focused Mustang ever on the track occasionally and not be let down. I surely didn't expect it to meet Ford's "Track" definition, but I didn't want that. A few 20 minute sessions with 1-2 hours cooldown in between would've been perfectly fine for me.

Stop placing blame, it's flipping ridiculous. I don't even blame Ford for anything. But if they didn't offer the '16 GT350 with asinine either-or options packages, we wouldn't be sitting here on a forum telling other people on the internet that they're wrong.

I can agree 100% with that. Crappy packaging from the start made people who might otherwise have purchased the track pack, get the tech, instead. A lot of people read between the lines and wanted to believe that the tech would be just fine on the track - which led to irritated owners when it didn't work out that way. This was my biggest gripe (the packaging) and to that end, I hope the people with the tech packs who want the additional cooling capacity are offered a reasonable solution/upgrade/whatever to get their cars the way they want.

Caballus · Feb 21, 2016

stanglife said:
I can agree 100% with that. Crappy packaging from the start made people who might otherwise have purchased the track pack, get the tech, instead. A lot of people read between the lines and wanted to believe that the tech would be just fine on the track - which led to irritated owners when it didn't work out that way. This was my biggest gripe (the packaging) and to that end, I hope the people with the tech packs who want the additional cooling capacity are offered a reasonable solution/upgrade/whatever to get their cars the way they want.

Can you explain the between the lines part? Would you not have to read between the lines to NOT get the tech or base the way Ford wrote the lines?

derand · Feb 21, 2016

Caballus said:
I prefer BMW and the base M3 performs well on road and track, while still having the comforts of the GT350 with Tech.

GT4 same price point and I drive both for BMW and PORSCHE dealers GT3 if you have deep pockets.

Caballus · Feb 21, 2016

derand said:
GT4 same price point and I drive both for BMW and PORSCHE dealers GT3 if you have deep pockets.

I can get each at a deep discount and can pick them up from the factory, literally. Despite that, I chose a GT350 :headbonk:

stanglife · Feb 21, 2016

Caballus said:
Can you explain the between the lines part? Would you not have to read between the lines to NOT get the tech or base the way Ford wrote the lines?

I think, for the most part, people hear what they want to hear. On one hand it sounds reasonable that a $60k "sports" car will come with everything it needs. On the other hand, I'm not going to say there were not indicators that should have made what is unfolding less of a shocker.

Somewhat subjective given the multiple "sources" of information and opinions out there but that's where I am. Let's just talk about the fix for now on, agree?

Caballus · Feb 21, 2016

stanglife said:
I think, for the most part, people hear what they want to hear. On one hand it sounds reasonable that a $60k "sports" car will come with everything it needs. On the other hand, I'm not going to say there were not indicators that should have made what is unfolding less of a shocker.

Somewhat subjective given the multiple "sources" of information and opinions out there but that's where I am. Let's just talk about the fix for now on, agree?

Agree in principle, but the devil's in a single detail. Any car should come with everything it needs to perform what it's advertised to perform. So, the detail is whether it was advertised to perform to the level Matt mentioned. If so, Ford is responsible--goes back to that integrity thing.

stanglife · Feb 21, 2016

Caballus said:
Agree in principle, but the devil's in a single detail. Any car should come with everything it needs to perform what it's advertised to perform. So, the detail is whether it was advertised to perform to the level Matt mentioned. If so, Ford is responsible--goes back to that integrity thing.

Ok well like I said, it's subjective. I keep fighting for an analogy but nothing good yet. How about brand name cheese and generic cheese?

No one said the generic wouldn't taste as good but were you completely shocked?

Failing here...

I mean, they flat out called one package the "track" package. Not saying they shouldn't do a thing - I think they should come up with some options but assigning 100% blame on this will be difficult.

Spa2k · Feb 21, 2016

Quit blaming Ford, which likely followed what it's market research said for setting up the '15 and '16 packages. The company wasn't completely deaf, dumb and blind in making those decisions. And now we have more than 60% of the cars built being Tech Packages. What percentage of those people ever plan on tracking their cars? I'll bet it's pretty small in the real world - not just a very visible and loud forum that represents way less that 10% of total GT 350 sales.

If I were sitting in the big chair at Ford, for 2017 I just as likely would have killed the Base for being a low seller (after letting it be the introductory value leader for the media) and reapportioned the packages to 1) make the GT 350 easier and less-expensive to manufacture and 2) raise the MSRP, "hiding" part of the increase in the realignment of options.

icormba · Feb 21, 2016

I bought this Tech Pack car for me and my wife. She insisted on heated seats as a priority. I did my research and found that Ford said, simply, if you plan to track a Base or Tech car... you should add trans and diff coolers.

For sustained high speeds or track day
use with a Base or Tech model, we
recommend that transmission and
differential coolers are added. Your
vehicle has electronic controls to
reduce power and/or limit RPM to
reduce powertrain temperatures if
required.

Great, If I decide to track it later down the road doesn't seem too hard or that expensive to add those items. :thumbsup:

However, when I read that Ford Performance now says we wouldn't be able to add a Trans cooler easily or even the diff cooler... that concerns me a bit.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1065628&postcount=30

Also, what is considered "sustained high speeds"?

:doh::frusty::shrug:

so is Ford going to develop a tranny cooler for us 16 tech/base owners?

Old Car Guy

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stanglife

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mattlqx

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stanglife

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Caballus

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derand

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Caballus

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