GM is pulling back on EVs

[Strokerswild]

The great electric car scandal is only just beginning (msn.com)

Hello; Allow me to pile on a bit. A real world test of actual EV ranges.

He nailed it.

I've already piled on how a BEV will never work for me in MN for the same reasons. Wait until some of the blind BEV believers start getting trapped in their cars in subzero winter storms and freezing to death, then the scandals will really begin.

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[Gregs24]

He nailed it.

I've already piled on how a BEV will never work for me in MN for the same reasons. Wait until some of the blind BEV believers start getting trapped in their cars in subzero winter storms and freezing to death, then the scandals will really begin.

Erm - you can run a BEV heater in a 'snowdrift' far more safely than an ICE car

 

[Burkey]

Erm - you can run a BEV heater in a 'snowdrift' far more safely than an ICE car

I don’t know why you bother. I gave up a long time ago.

 

[Gregs24]

In related news, water is wet and the sun is still bright. The US Government got caught allowing manufacturers the ability to fluff their EV mileage tests by an arbitrary, *made up*, factor from day one, completely skewing the mileage tests vs ICE vehicles. You simply cannot get the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels in any battery currently in existence. Meanwhile the Biden Admin dropped a few billion dollars into a whole “nationwide charging network”…two years later, a whopping SEVEN chargers have been built.

It’s a huge scam, and anyone with an IQ over room temperature saw this coming.

Indeed you cannot - but look at the efficiency of an ICE engine compared to the efficiency of a BEV. You don't NEED the energy density in the battery (although obviously the greater the density the better from a size and weight point of view.)

 

[Joshinator99]

Indeed you cannot - but look at the efficiency of an ICE engine compared to the efficiency of a BEV. You don't NEED the energy density in the battery (although obviously the greater the density the better from a size and weight point of view.)

You do if you want this little thing called range… the current results speak for themselves. BEV is so far behind it’s not funny. If you can stay in your “15 minute” city you’re probably fine with BEV…unless you need to evacuate like everyone else at the same time….then you’re screwed. For the rest of the country that needs to drive more than that, BEVs are more expensive upfront, more expensive to fix, more expensive to operate on a daily basis (!), and horribly inconvenient to charge during your drive. It’s obvious why Hertz is dropping them like a bad habit.

 

[Joshinator99]

Erm - you can run a BEV heater in a 'snowdrift' far more safely than an ICE car

Do you mean the same BEV that can’t recharge in the cold and loses a third of its range…? That one? I think there is still a line in Chicago still waiting to tow their dead BEVs away because they won’t charge lol. You’re really going to go with cold weather BEV performance as your hill to die on?!?

 

[Gregs24]

Do you mean the same BEV that can’t recharge in the cold and loses a third of its range…? That one? I think there is still a line in Chicago still waiting to tow their dead BEVs away because they won’t charge lol. You’re really going to go with cold weather BEV performance as your hill to die on?!?

You can always find an extreme case to moan, but the reality is for most people most of the time an EV is just fine (BEV/PHEV/FCEV)

Norway is a very cold snowy country with huge BEV adoption - seems they don't have the same problems?

 

[Gregs24]

You do if you want this little thing called range… the current results speak for themselves. BEV is so far behind it’s not funny. If you can stay in your “15 minute” city you’re probably fine with BEV…unless you need to evacuate like everyone else at the same time….then you’re screwed. For the rest of the country that needs to drive more than that, BEVs are more expensive upfront, more expensive to fix, more expensive to operate on a daily basis (!), and horribly inconvenient to charge during your drive. It’s obvious why Hertz is dropping them like a bad habit.

Dacia are releasing the Spring in the UK this year for £15k - so they don't have to be expensive.

Range is an issue entirely dependent on what you use the car for, there are plenty with a 300 mile range which is fine for MOST people MOST of the time.

Charging infrastructure is an issue in the US but other countries have overcome it so it is possible.

Cheaper to operate v ICE in many countries and more reliable.

Broad brush strokes and throw away comments sound great but look outside the US to see how some countries are finding EV's just fine.

 

[Joshinator99]

You can always find an extreme case to moan, but the reality is for most people most of the time an EV is just fine (BEV/PHEV/FCEV)

Norway is a very cold snowy country with huge BEV adoption - seems they don't have the same problems?

They do…! If you read up on Norway they gave a STAGGERING amount of money away to get people to adopt BEV. It made virtually no difference…their petroleum use went down 4%…

 

[Joshinator99]

Dacia are releasing the Spring in the UK this year for £15k - so they don't have to be expensive.

Range is an issue entirely dependent on what you use the car for, there are plenty with a 300 mile range which is fine for MOST people MOST of the time.

Charging infrastructure is an issue in the US but other countries have overcome it so it is possible.

Cheaper to operate v ICE in many countries and more reliable.

Broad brush strokes and throw away comments sound great but look outside the US to see how some countries are finding EV's just fine.

Non existent cars are not a great way to make a case lol. The whole BEV case is built on hype, not actual number. Hopefully you read the link above that destroyed these mythical BEV range claims.

These other European countries are starting to find out the hard way that Uncle Sam has been paying for their defense for decades. Germany just had to massively ramp up their defense spending to meet NATO commitments. I think you’ll find the pie-in-the-sky dreams start to disappear when you have to find your own money. And BEV is definitely not cheaper to operate in the US, which is where 99.9% of this board is from. It’s only cheaper in some countries like the UK because you’ve overtaxed the living bejesus out of fuel. On a level playing field ICE stomps out BEV everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Again, hope you read the above link with real world results.

 

[sk47]

It’s only cheaper in some countries like the UK because you’ve overtaxed the living bejesus out of fuel.

Hello; Excelent point.

 

[sk47]

Biden administration announces new standards with sweeping impacts on trucking industry: 'Another giant step forward' (msn.com)

“…the new regulations set by the Biden administration don't mandate a shift to all-electric vehicles. Instead, it limits the amount of pollution allowed from trucks, leaving it up to companies to determine how to lower their levels.”

“This is an ambitious plan, and many truck drivers are concerned that the infrastructure is not in place to support the industry's transition to more electric vehicles,”

Hello; This is basically a fluff piece touting the “potential” of climate benefits but sidestepping reality as we know it. The large majority of the article is about the new regulations from this alphabet agency is “possibly” going to reduce carbon when these regs are in effect. (note – I used the word “possibly” just now. In the article the author uses “will”. I contend the regs will only possibly have the intended results.)( I also contend it is unlikely the regs will work)

The leave it up to manufacturers to solve the associated problems bit would be cute if the potential for disaster did not exist. The alphabet agency does not have solutions so dump the problems on the vehicle makers. It seems unlikely the associated issues can be solved in the time frame, if ever. It is not like the big truck companies have not been trying ways to reduce fuel costs for the last 100+ years.

Should these new regs be allowed to go into effect there will be consequences. Not unintended consequences, I contend. Not, for example, the sort of unintended consequences associated with the Covid 19 pandemic edicts enacted by the powers that be. I can foresee as many of you using this forum can see, some of the consequences that will result from a crippling of the transport and heavy truck work force.

My catchphrase of “a do without” future will become a reality. My guess is several of those “someday fixes” for EV issues will have to happen for the regs to have a chance. Very unlikely. The “true believers” are willing to bet our survivability on their untested criteria.

There is much more can be said about this issue.

 

[Gregs24]

They do…! If you read up on Norway they gave a STAGGERING amount of money away to get people to adopt BEV. It made virtually no difference…their petroleum use went down 4%…

Err, not sure where you got your info from, but Petrol usage in Norway is down by a huge amount which is no surprise since such a large and increasing proportion of vehicles are BEV now. (Currently 90% plus of new vehicles sold are Plug in EV)

Norway Gasoline consumption - data, chart | TheGlobalEconomy.com

 

[Gregs24]

Non existent cars are not a great way to make a case lol. The whole BEV case is built on hype, not actual number. Hopefully you read the link above that destroyed these mythical BEV range claims.

These other European countries are starting to find out the hard way that Uncle Sam has been paying for their defense for decades. Germany just had to massively ramp up their defense spending to meet NATO commitments. I think you’ll find the pie-in-the-sky dreams start to disappear when you have to find your own money. And BEV is definitely not cheaper to operate in the US, which is where 99.9% of this board is from. It’s only cheaper in some countries like the UK because you’ve overtaxed the living bejesus out of fuel. On a level playing field ICE stomps out BEV everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Again, hope you read the above link with real world results.

I can see your post but no link?? Can you post again please?

Non-existent cars? Not sure I understand what your point is?

Range calculations for EV's are no different to fuel figures for ICE cars - you have to have a standard method for manufacturers to stick to so you can compare like with like. In real life we all know that means the figures are not real as we don't drive a standard route in a prescribed way every day! How do you compare a car made in China with one made in the US - you use a standardised method to calculate it - simply all you can actually do.

Uncle Sam politics not for this forum - not sure why the 'no politics' rule is so difficult for some people?

The car industry is global (as is this forum) so no reason not to enlighten yourself on what goes on outside the US

 

[sk47]

Err, not sure where you got your info from, but Petrol usage in Norway is down by a huge amount which is no surprise since such a large and increasing proportion of vehicles are BEV now. (Currently 90% plus of new vehicles sold are Plug in EV)

Norway Gasoline consumption - data, chart | TheGlobalEconomy.com

Hello; There can be reasons beyond EV adoption for less fuel useage. Assuming the chart is correct fuel use decline started around 2000, about the time hybrids started being sold and long before BEV's. Even noe tho EV's tend to be a small percentage of total fleets of vehicles.
High fuel costs, which can be driven up by economic forces or of late by government edicts, can reduce use.
Fuel efficiency gains in ICE vehicles can also make a difference.

I see a broad brush in use.

Broad brush strokes and throw away comments sound great

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