Ford Mustang Twitter Horsepower Reveal

[martinjlm]

If camaro sales continue to flounder we won't se a z28 and we're all seeing the last of the line no7gen.

On one hand, when Mark Dickens replaced Al Oppenheiser as Camaro Exec. Chief Engineer, it was stated that now that “Al had completed the rollout of all the Gen 6 models, he could move on to another assignment...”. I took that to mean that there would be no Z/28 off of 6th gen.

On the other hand, the 1LZ was launched under Mark Dickens....and with C7 Corvette including ZR1 going away, LT5 is just sitting on the shelf doing nothing. I still think there is no Z/28 coming, but getting there is a fairly simple proposition in terms of vehicle development work needed to make it happen.

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[EcoVert]

I still think there is no Z/28 coming, but getting there is a fairly simple proposition in terms of vehicle development work needed to make it happen.

But getting the ok to spend the money when you can bet there's a push by the profit exes to dump camaro a long with all the other car lines in favor of the much more profitable suv's and cuv's.

 

[martinjlm]

But getting the ok to spend the money when you can bet there's a push by the profit exes to dump camaro a long with all the other car lines in favor of the much more profitable suv's and cuv's.

I know you really want to see Camaro cancelled. There is always a slight chance that could happen given some of the really strange things GM has been doing lately <cough> V-Series <cough>. From information I have and information I have seen, there is a 7th gen in the works. Can’t really say more than that, and of course you do not have to take my word for it. As far as getting the go-ahead.... there’s not much money to be spent. It would be less of an undertaking than creating the 5th Gen Z/28, since most of the suspension and braking goodies that went into that car would not be new development for a 6th Gen Z/28 like they were for the 5th. For the 5th Gen, Mark Reuss pretty much said “do this” and it was done. He’s in an even higher position in the company now than he was then so he could very well repeat that scenario. Tadge Jeuchter and Mark Dickens report to a guy who reports to Reuss. If Reuss decides he doesn’t like the ZLE position wrt to GT500, he could again say “do this” and bang....Camaro gets an LT5.

All that is to say it is a plausible scenario. I have seen no indication that Reuss will do that. But I also didn’t see the 5th Gen Z/28 coming and at the time my office was down the hall from Al’s and one of my guys attended his planning meetings.

 

[EcoVert]

I have seen, there is a 7th gen in the works.

Plans have away of changing planning is one thing getting the ok is another. If sales drop below 50 thousand units it's going to be a hard sell to the bean counters.

 

[martinjlm]

Plans have away of changing planning is one thing getting the ok is another. If sales drop below 50 thousand units it's going to be a hard sell to the bean counters.

You are absolutely correct. Plans can and do change. 20 plus years in GM Powertrain Planning have taught me that much. But at this point, Camaro 7 is as locked into the product plan as most anything else in the portfolio. Every nameplate is a business case away from history. Can it be cancelled? Of course it can. I watched Corvette C5 get cancelled twice during my years in Planning (read the book “All Corvettes Are Red, The Rest Are Mistakes” for details on that). The fact that Camaro 7 is in the plan at the level that is in means that it is much more likely gonna happen than not.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

If Reuss decides he doesn’t like the ZLE position wrt to GT500, he could again say “do this” and bang....Camaro gets an LT5.

I wonder what that would look like in terms of MSRP and vehicle packaging[?] Is it just a new ZL1? An option on top of a ZL1? A new model (i.e., Z28)? If the latter, does that have other unique-to-the-model features (ex: Hellcat vs. Hellcat Redeye), is it offered with manual and an A10? Is there a ZLE flavor, or do all <new model> get the 1LE running gear? (I can't imagine a ZL1, ZL1 1LE, Z28, Z28 1LE plus the convertible ZL1, and all those with the choice of both a 6-speed and an A10, that seems like an unmanageable number of model variants). If it is simply a refreshed ZL1, does that include the convertible? (chassis issues?), and if it's another $10K to the MSRP, for a car that's sitting on lots everywhere, doesn't that simply compound the business issue?

 

[martinjlm]

I wonder what that would look like in terms of MSRP and vehicle packaging[?] Is it just a new ZL1? An option on top of a ZL1? A new model (i.e., Z28)? If the latter, does that have other unique-to-the-model features (ex: Hellcat vs. Hellcat Redeye), is it offered with manual and an A10? Is there a ZLE flavor, or do all <new model> get the 1LE running gear? (I can't imagine a ZL1, ZL1 1LE, Z28, Z28 1LE plus the convertible ZL1, and all those with the choice of both a 6-speed and an A10, that seems like an unmanageable number of model variants). If it is simply a refreshed ZL1, does that include the convertible? (chassis issues?), and if it's another $10K to the MSRP, for a car that's sitting on lots everywhere, doesn't that simply compound the business issue?

If I was “King of Product Planning” the way I would do it is make it a specific package, maybe one or two optional items beyond color, call it Z/28, and price it near, maybe slightly below the 2019 Z06 Z07 package. Coupe only, no convertible. And it goes away when the performance version of C8 comes in.

 

[PP0001]

If I was “King of Product Planning” the way I would do it is make it a specific package, maybe one or two optional items beyond color, call it Z/28, and price it near, maybe slightly below the 2019 Z06 Z07 package. Coupe only, no convertible. And it goes away when the performance version of C8 comes in.

I was always a big fan of the early Z28 cars specifically the first generation '67 to '69 cars and also really liked the '70 1/2 Z28 when Chevrolet planted the outstanding 360 HP LT1 engine in that car.

Two cars that I have lusted over for many years and should have bought when I had the chance was one of the 562 GT350's built for the 1965MY and right after that I should have purchased one of the 602 Z28's built for the 1967MY and of course would have to come in RS trim. Without question two of the most iconic Pony Cars of all time.

Back in the day I was very fortunate to have purchased a pristine '68 RS/SS L78 Camaro and still miss that car to this day. It even came with chambered exhaust which was added in 1969 and was a 12 second car all day long with very few modifications.

Personally I hope that Chevrolet/GM comes out with a future Z28 model but only if they do it right and hopefully around the same time how cool would it be for Ford to launch a third generation Boss 302 model.

It wouldn't get much better than that for enthusiasts from both sides of the spectrum!

 

[V00D00]

Speak of the devil, there's one of them!

Don't worry, I most certainly could afford one. NOTHING about this car makes me think I should sell mine and buy one rather than just modding my car to be significantly better

Thats funny, my buddy has had my deposit for months..we talk daily about when ordering opens
oh, and "almost certainly" sounds like you cant to me, and everyone else. Im not judging, but please stop telling us why its not the latest and greatest just because its out of your reach. Take solice in knowing that it was made for much more than I can do with it on a road course, and you would do much better than I with it.. if I ever threw you the keys

 

[EcoVert]

I was always a big fan of the early Z28 cars

Fun fact in 1982 motor trend put the new for 1982 Mustang GT up against the new 1982 camaro z28. The GT beat the z28 in there tests but motor trend still pick the z28 as the winner because the like the feel of dash buttons better.

 

[jake_zx2]

I grew up with the '67 and '68 Z28's therefore I have a great deal of respect for what GM did way back then and it took Ford 2 years to answer the bell with the '69 Boss 302.

Having said that if Chevrolet is coming out with another Z28 in the very near future I would suggest that they need to up their game a great deal based on what they gave us back in 2014/2015 because that Z28 was a disaster.

If you recall the 2014 Z28 came out with left over 427 CI NA engine that was used the previous year in the Z06 (that took a lot of imagination and engineering!) and had a whoping 505 HP and in a Pony car that weighed close to ~3900 pounds.

Zero to 60 times were around 4.4 seconds and the quarter mile for that porker was 12.7 seconds and all that for a $75,000 car.

If I recall correctly Ford had already come out with their 662 HP Pony car a year earlier and for a lot less than the $75,000 MSRP price tag on the poor performing 2014 Z28.

Did the Z28 have terrific handling and braking, absolutely but to the point where the suspension was so rigid and the front tires were so big and fat that the car was barely streetable and the left over and poor engine selection was a lot to be desired for a car in this price range.

Hopefully Chevrolet and GM will have learned a few lessons from the 2014/2015 Z28 one of which they might even think to assign a chassis number to one of these hopefully new cool Pony cars!

I can agree that the previous Z/28 was a bit of a flop, but most of that could be attributed to the unheard-of-for-a-ponycar at the time price. However, they knocked the new ZL1 out of the park, and a new Z/28 with an even more powerful drivetrain and even more new equipment would be DEALDY to the GT500, and would be extremely easy to carry out... all they need is the LT5, the Corvette's carbon-ceramic brakes, the 1LE aero and suspension (plus some extra) and some lightweighting meaures

oh, and "almost certainly" sounds like you cant to me, and everyone else.

Read again, there's no "almost" anywhere in my statement. I can definitely afford one, I choose not to. If they would've maybe been a bit more innovative with it, then maybe it would've been a consideration. But they disappointed me, so I'm just gonna dump that money into a bigger house instead

 

[V00D00]

I can agree that the previous Z/28 was a bit of a flop, but most of that could be attributed to the unheard-of-for-a-ponycar at the time price. However, they knocked the new ZL1 out of the park, and a new Z/28 with an even more powerful drivetrain and even more new equipment would be DEALDY to the GT500, and would be extremely easy to carry out... all they need is the LT5, the Corvette's carbon-ceramic brakes, the 1LE aero and suspension (plus some extra) and some lightweighting meaures



Read again, there's no "almost" anywhere in my statement. I can definitely afford one, I choose not to. If they would've maybe been a bit more innovative with it, then maybe it would've been a consideration. But they disappointed me, so I'm just gonna dump that money into a bigger house instead

Ninja edit
Because your current cars are so innovative in their own right, yes?

 

[jake_zx2]

Ninja edit
Because your current cars are so innovative in their own right, yes?

No edit at all, you just need to learn to read. I wouldn't say "almost certainly", that's an oxymoron

I never said my cars are innovative, either. They don't have to be. But Ford's halo Mustang SHOULD be innovative and have some appeal that no one else can offer. In 13-14, it offered THE MOST horsepower of ANY production V8, as well as the highest top speed of any muscle car. The GT350 was the first mass-produced flat plane crank V8 and first mass produced carbon fiber wheels, along with an incredible look. The GT500? A bunch of recycled parts from it's little brother, a look that debuted 5 years ago and has since been revised, and the "new" stuff that it has doesn't even match its competitors... that's not a halo car, that's a disappointment

 

[V00D00]

No edit at all, you just need to learn to read. I wouldn't say "almost certainly", that's an oxymoron

I never said my cars are innovative, either. They don't have to be. But Ford's halo Mustang SHOULD be innovative and have some appeal that no one else can offer. In 13-14, it offered THE MOST horsepower of ANY production V8, as well as the highest top speed of any muscle car. The GT350 was the first mass-produced flat plane crank V8 and first mass produced carbon fiber wheels, along with an incredible look. The GT500? A bunch of recycled parts from it's little brother, a look that debuted 5 years ago and has since been revised, and the "new" stuff that it has doesn't even match its competitors... that's not a halo car, that's a disappointment

Interesting, show me who in is currently offering what the gt500 is, under 100k

Redesigned front end. 5.2 cpc. 2650 sc. Most powerful mustang, Dct. CF options.. not unique at all

Any muscle car have that?

Your argument is textbook to what a POOR would say.. the shoe fits hombre

 

[jake_zx2]

Interesting, show me who in is currently offering what the gt500 is, under 100k

Um, hello? ZL1 1LE?

And besides that, that's still not innovation. I can offer you a hamburger for free, that doesn't make me an innovator because I'm offering free hamburgers

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