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Eritas

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need and should if you want it to last, are separate.
Not true. I've been riding dirtbikes and sportbikes since I was a kid. It doesn't wear them out. There's no racing school that teaches you to use the clutch or double clutch in their dog-ring equipped formula cars. It's completely unnecessary.
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JamesinLittleSilver

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It is about tradition and acquired skillset. Performance shifting is a dying art, and one that few have or will (especially now) ever come close to mastering. For me personally, it's the recollection of my father and grandfather teaching me to properly heel/toe. Then understanding from those lessons and practice, that a settled car and driver find the perfect apex with ease. When you hit it, you know it...Pops and Dad proudly felt it, before I realized that I actually pulled it off for the first time. I still find that day and place when I stick it. Pops is gone, but all of the lessons that he taught me live on and have been passed onto my sons.
Nicely said. It is an art .... like Martial Arts vs kickboxing, color by numbers vs painting etc. DTC may be better than a regular automatic but if you listened to Pony wars, for instance, they were complaining the auto wouldn't be in the right gear for leaving a turn or perhaps the second turn. So all that power was great but without the brain to see what was going to happen vs what was happening the auto trans was just off.
 

Eritas

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Nicely said. It is an art .... like Martial Arts vs kickboxing, color by numbers vs painting etc. DTC may be better than a regular automatic but if you listened to Pony wars, for instance, they were complaining the auto wouldn't be in the right gear for leaving a turn or perhaps the second turn. So all that power was great but without the brain to see what was going to happen vs what was happening the auto trans was just off.
Because you can't put it in manual mode and select the gears yourself? :facepalm:

Randy pobst says the PDK & GM's transmissions shift in automatic mode better than he does manually.
 

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Because you can't put it in manual mode and select the gears yourself? :facepalm:

Randy pobst says the PDK & GM's transmissions shift in automatic mode better than he does manually.
Better yet, maybe someday there will be a app for your phone. You could simply download a app that has every track in the world on it and all you have to do is show up and your phone does everything for you! Cars are really the last thing when it comes to autonomous vehicles. Boats, trains, drones and planes have been autonomous for years! Sure there maybe someone there to take over when the computer has a glitch but for the most part technology is doing the work! Even sometimes the vehicle could even be controlled by a remote source that has a better view or data than the actual driver, captain or pilot. It's almost a full circle like back in the day of running RC cars around a track from a tower. Except now the tower could be in China and the RC car could be on any track in the world. One thing for sure us technology is moving faster than all of us! Don't get me wrong guys I understand the whole Auto/DCT movement but I'm personally going to hang on to my 3rd pedal and shift knob as long as I can. I'm not hating on anyone for their choice but I'm really confused why so many are hating on manuals. You rather have a Auto/DCT? That's awesome, start a thread of Auto/DCT or bust! Personally I love all vehicles but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed now and then. With that said if we're going to continue to beat a dead horse let's try to not make it personal! I love all you guys/gals and even those who are not sure!!
 
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V00D00

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Not true. I've been riding dirtbikes and sportbikes since I was a kid. It doesn't wear them out. There's no racing school that teaches you to use the clutch or double clutch in their dog-ring equipped formula cars. It's completely unnecessary.
Youre so far out of your element, its laughable. do you NEED to double clutch? no, it will allow you to do it. Do you want to if your not racing/WOT? yes, if you dont want to replace things every thousand miles. need and highly suggested are not the same.
 

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Eritas

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Youre so far out of your element, its laughable. do you NEED to double clutch? no, it will allow you to do it. Do you want to if your not racing/WOT? yes, if you dont want to replace things every thousand miles. need and highly suggested are not the same.
Yes due to my years of riding bikes and personally seeing the lack of wear on the dogrings from never using the clutch; and learning that racing schools don't teach double clutch downshifting and they don't replace dog rings very often because otherwise they'd go out of business with the service costs maintaining fleets of formula cars. Those cars get beat up from all the students with varying levels of abilities, and yet there's no concern for excessive dog ring wear.

But if it makes you feel better then keep double clutching your transmission, even though you're making an insignificant benefit to it.
 

Tomster

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Boats, trains, drones and planes have been autonomous for years! Sure there maybe someone there to take over when the computer has a glitch but for the most part technology is doing the work!
Really...... that's interesting. Care to expand on that? I fly aircraft and I don't know how you came up with that statement. Please expand on that. I'm sure everyone wouldn't mind another entertaining sidetrack.
 
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Stuntman

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Not true. I've been riding dirtbikes and sportbikes since I was a kid. It doesn't wear them out. There's no racing school that teaches you to use the clutch or double clutch in their dog-ring equipped formula cars. It's completely unnecessary.
Depending on the aggressiveness and angle of the dog rings, it can be beneficial to double clutch downshift to extend the life of aggressively cut rings. But this is mostly the case for tight tolerence gearboxes in professional endurance racing -moreso 5-15 years ago, and not applicable to paddle shifted gearboxes in pro racing.

However in most cases for production motorcycles and most race transmissions, you are right that a solid, crisp down shift and corresponding blip will cause no more wear than double clutching it.
 

bdub85

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Depending on the aggressiveness and angle of the dog rings, it can be beneficial to double clutch downshift to extend the life of aggressively cut rings. But this is mostly the case for tight tolerence gearboxes in professional endurance racing -moreso 5-15 years ago, and not applicable to paddle shifted gearboxes in pro racing.

However in most cases for production motorcycles and most race transmissions, you are right that a solid, crisp down shift and corresponding blip will cause no more wear than double clutching it.
I had a PPG dogbox, and I needed new dog rings after about 2 years of pretty heavy use. It's actually fairly inexpensive to replace the dog rings. The money is in the labor to do it. I started having issues with 3rd gear jumping out.

Talk about a badass transmission though. No lift shifting is so fast which is why I'm so pumped about the DCT. The DCT will shift insanely fast every time.
 

Braski

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Really...... that's interesting. Care to expand on that? I fly aircraft and I don't know how you came up with that statement. Please expand on that. I'm sure everyone wouldn't mind another entertaining sidetrack.
Lets start with the definition of Autonomous- "denoting or performed by a device capable of operating without direct human control". Even commercial Autopilot technology fits that definition since it has been flying and landing planes for years. The government has aircraft that is capable of taking off, flying and even landing on a aircraft carriers completely atononmos.
 

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Tomster

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Lets start with the definition of Autonomous- "denoting or performed by a device capable of operating without direct human control". Even commercial Autopilot technology fits that definition since it has been flying and landing planes for years. The government has aircraft that is capable of taking off, flying and even landing on a aircraft carriers completely atononmos.
autonomous
adjective
au·ton·o·mous | \ ȯ-ˈtä-nə-məs \
Definition of autonomous


1a : having the right or power of self-government
b : undertaken or carried on without outside control : self-contained
2a : existing or capable of existing independently
b : responding, reacting, or developing independently of the whole
3 : controlled by the autonomic nervous system
4 : of, relating to, or marked by autonomy

We may use an autopilot, however it is in no way autonomous. It does what we tell it to do. Autonomous definition above... capable of existing independently. The autopilot is a tool and we control it.

As for the drones, news flash, they are controlled by people. The people are usually in some remote location in a different geographical location that directly flies the aircraft as well as making command and control decsions.
 

Braski

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autonomous
adjective
au·ton·o·mous | \ ȯ-ˈtä-nə-məs \
Definition of autonomous


1a : having the right or power of self-government
b : undertaken or carried on without outside control : self-contained
2a : existing or capable of existing independently
b : responding, reacting, or developing independently of the whole
3 : controlled by the autonomic nervous system
4 : of, relating to, or marked by autonomy

We may use an autopilot, however it is in no way autonomous. It does what we tell it to do. Autonomous definition above... capable of existing independently. The autopilot is a tool and we control it.

As for the drones, news flash, they are controlled by people. The people are usually in some remote location in a different geographical location that directly flies the aircraft as well as making command and control decsions.
There's plenty of autonomous aircraft out there and I'm not talking about drones. Plenty of commercial jet autopilot abilities falls under the definition you supplied. Feel free to keep trying to split hairs, I'm sure next you will be arguing that a DCT is not a automatic transmission! Thanks for trying and have a safe flight!:clap:
 

Tomster

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There's plenty of autonomous aircraft out there and I'm not talking about drones.
Name them.

Plenty of commercial jet autopilot abilities falls under the definition you supplied.
No, they don't. I fly them.

Feel free to keep trying to split hairs, I'm sure next you will be arguing that a DCT is not a automatic transmission! Thanks for trying and have a safe flight!:clap:
Splitting hairs..... No, calling out someone who has no idea what he is talking about.

Hey, what happened to that embarrassing video and post of yourself holding on to the stick between shifts? Did you think nobody was going to miss that? You have demonstrated in many ways that you have no idea what you are talking about. Refer to post 283 on page 15
Why are you holding onto the shifter between shifts? Maybe the 500 is for you. Who taught you to drive a manual?
 
 




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