7 speed DCT vs 10r80 for Drag racing? Road racing?

[BrettT]

I am sorry, but you are very much so incorrect. My Huracan, does not require DCT service at that interval. Nor does the McLaren 570s, and 720s. I've also owned a Porsche 911 Turbo S, with the PDK, and it also did not require servicing to that magnitude. Neither did the DCT equipped BMW's. You are quoting old figures from DCT cars from the late 90s and early 2000s.

Not that it is in the same performance league as these other, but the only service the DSG (DCT) in my VW needs is a fluid replacement (wet clutch) every 60,000 KM (37,000 ML). Other than that nothing else, and mine has 192,000 KM on it.

Sponsored

 

[Rothgray]

i said outside of porsche. and i also stated that the problem had been fixed now on the GTR. I'm aware that all cars don't require that service. I was just starting the cars that had DCT's that were new or starting out had issues. Ford had problems building engines on several vehicles and internal combustion engines have been around for 100 years so i would think the chances for problems are pretty decent.

and I am still saying you are wrong. All of the cars I listed, have fairly high mileage DCT service intervals, including the Porsche.

 

[Dub347sbf]

Here was some of the hype over the 10 speed transmission when it first came out :



"With world-class shift times on par with the world’s best dual-clutch transmissions and the refinement that comes only from a true automatic, the 10-speed delivers incomparable performance on and off the track,”

• "Quicker shifts than a dual-clutch transmission – Testing has shown faster upshift times than the Porsche PDK dual-clutch transmission. In fact, the 1-2 upshift is 36-percent quicker than the PDK, while the 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts are 27-percent and 26-percent quicker, respectively."

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm...ages/news/us/en/2016/may/0511-10speed-gm.html

That's all fine and good, while trying to hype a new transmission offering. I think they said this DCT shifts in half the time of the 10 speed you just mentioned. Also trying to hype a new transmission, but if you are going to believe the press hype, this DCT should perform.

 

[V00D00]

Uh... dude. The very definition of a manual transmission is YOU putting it into the gear it needs to be in. When a transmission puts the car in the correct gear, this process is now automated. Correct me if I'm wrong here but does the DCT put itself in the correct gear or not? Think of it this way, are you male or female? Because there are ONLY 2 genders. All of that 3+ gender crap is pure BS.

And there we go, same argument with functioning retards all over again. tear a DCT apart, tear a manual apart, tear a traditional automatic apart.. tell me which 2 have the most similarities, in percentages of course.
maybe im wrong though.. but if I put a dct into M mode, will a gear change happen if I dont initiate it? or is your opinion of a manual trans, more aong the lines of if you dont have to use the clutch, its not a manual?

and btw, there are only 2 genders, but hermaphrodites exist as well.. sooooo..

 

[Ebm]

And there we go, same argument with functioning retards all over again. tear a DCT apart, tear a manual apart, tear a traditional automatic apart.. tell me which 2 have the most similarities, in percentages of course.
maybe im wrong though.. but if I put a dct into M mode, will a gear change happen if I dont initiate it? or is your opinion of a manual trans, more aong the lines of if you dont have to use the clutch, its not a manual?

and btw, there are only 2 genders, but hermaphrodites exist as well.. sooooo..

Dude, get over it. You are dead wrong. a DCT is still an automatic no matter how you slice it. You can't put a true manual transmission in any mode because it doesn't have one. Does a DCT have a drive mode and a reverse mode? Sure. Does a manual transmission have a drive mode and a reverse mode? No, you HAVE TO DO THOSE MANUALLY!!!!

Just because you call us names doesn't mean your argument is any more valid.

By the way, a hermaphrodite isn't a gender so your point really isn't valid is it? For the majority of the population, if you were born with male equipment, you are male. If you are born with female equipment, you are female. That's it...

 

[GrabberBlue5.0]

Umm, hermaphrodites are real.

And why does a transmission have to be defined by a binary definition? (Can ONLY be auto or manual?) You cannot SERIOUSLY be likening a transmission to human gender. It's a terrible analogy. Not because of any human rights/liberal/equality reasons, but simply because they are not analogous.

Am I the only one that sees the flawed logic here?

Or am I the only one taking the bait?!?!?

 

[Ebm]

Umm, hermaphrodites are real.

And why does a transmission have to be defined by a binary definition? (Can ONLY be auto or manual?) You cannot SERIOUSLY be likening a transmission to human gender. It's a terrible analogy. Not because of any human rights/liberal/equality reasons, but simply because they are not analogous.

Am I the only one that sees the flawed logic here?

Or am I the only one taking the bait?!?!?

There's no gray area here. Whenever you fill out a health form, it has 2 checkboxes, male and female. That's it. Whenever you buy a new car it lists the transmission, either manual or automatic. That's it.

The analogy is fine. Maybe you don't get it, but that's your fault not mine.

 

[V00D00]

Dude, get over it. You are dead wrong. a DCT is still an automatic no matter how you slice it. You can't put a true manual transmission in any mode because it doesn't have one. Does a DCT have a drive mode and a reverse mode? Sure. Does a manual transmission have a drive mode and a reverse mode? No, you HAVE TO DO THOSE MANUALLY!!!!

Just because you call us names doesn't mean your argument is any more valid.

By the way, a hermaphrodite isn't a gender so your point really isn't valid is it? For the majority of the population, if you were born with male equipment, you are male. If you are born with female equipment, you are female. That's it...

ok, i dont want to put you back into depression, but you are incorrect, and here is why. name a characteristic of a transmission that that makes ita manual or automatic?
and the same for the gender question, because for some reason this actually equates quite well. a hermaphrodite is which gender? since it has both sex organs?

if it has the same parts and characteristics of BOTH, how and why are you keeping it to one of 2 groups, when in FACT, its neither, and ITS OWN group?

 

[Ebm]

ok, i dont want to put you back into depression, but you are incorrect, and here is why. name a characteristic of a transmission that that makes ita manual or automatic?
and the same for the gender question, because for some reason this actually equates quite well. a hermaphrodite is which gender? since it has both sex organs?

if it has the same parts and characteristics of BOTH, how and why are you keeping it to one of 2 groups, when in FACT, its neither, and ITS OWN group?

Easy question. A manual REQUIRES you to modulate a clutch and shift gears. A modern day automatic SHIFTS GEARS FOR YOU. An automatic has the option to either shift gears for you or you can shift with paddle shifters. Here's the differentiating factor. A manual REQUIRES this, an automatic DOESN'T.

As for genders, if the person is born with multiple sex organs, looking into their DNA will PROVE whether it's a male or female. A female has 2, that's right, 2 X chromosomes. A male has 1, yes 1, X chromosome and 1, yes 1, Y chromosome. There are very rare cases where a male can have 2, yes 2, X chromosomes. But that's rare and with more testing you can prove whether it's a male or female.

We done here or do you just like wasting my time? I know I'm right.

 

[V00D00]

Easy question. A manual REQUIRES you to modulate a clutch and shift gears.
So does a DCT in M mode, next..

A modern day automatic SHIFTS GEARS FOR YOU. I can set the DCT to m mode and its all on me, next..

An automatic has the option to either shift gears for you or you can shift with paddle shifters. Here's the differentiating factor. A manual REQUIRES this, an automatic DOESN'T.

Again, dct requires driver input when set to, next..

As for genders, if the person is born with multiple sex organs, looking into their DNA will PROVE whether it's a male or female. A female has 2, that's right, 2 X chromosomes. A male has 1, yes 1, X chromosome and 1, yes 1, Y chromosome. There are very rare cases where a male can have 2, yes 2, X chromosomes. But that's rare and with more testing you can prove whether it's a male or female.

so if i tear apart a dct and find 100% of characteristics of a manual, its a manual, even though it has 1 additional characteristic of an automatic?

We done here or do you just like wasting my time? I know I'm right.

uhh.. yea, about that..

sorry to disappoint you man, like i said before, there is no argument you can make that dct owners havent heard already and disprove

 

[Ebm]

sorry to disappoint you man, like i said before, there is no argument you can make that dct owners havent heard already and disprove

No need to be sorry, you aren't hurting my feelings. At least this debate was more interesting than watching politics lol.

At the basic level, this is how I see it. No matter how the transmission is made or what materials it is made with, 1 distinction is all it takes to see if something is a manual transmission. Does the car REQUIRE you to shift gears? If so, it's a manual. If it doesn't require this, it's an automatic.

We won't be the first 2 people to disagree with each other and we darn sure won't be the last. As long as the argument doesn't get toxic, it's all good.

Although I'm curious to see what @Norm Peterson has to say about this.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I guess 150 milliseconds*5 shifts (ending 1/4 mile in 6th gear)

Vs 100 milliseconds *4 shifts (gt500 probably ending the 1/4 in 5th maybe? ) would be a .3 second benefit for the DCT? Hard to know

I really don't think it would be that much. Not due to the time spent shifting, anyway. ET differences due to differences in gear spacing, gear engagement firmness, and possible torque converter effects would probably be comparable.


Norm

 

[V00D00]

you can keep posting what you wish, but the fact that your tone changed after I made my points clear, by using your own definitions, tells me you know im correct. And thats good enough for me.

 

[Ebm]

you can keep posting what you wish, but the fact that your tone changed after I made my points clear, by using your own definitions, tells me you know im correct. And thats good enough for me.

Or maybe I figured out that no matter what I said, speaking to someone who is close-minded will make no difference. I'd just be wasting my breath and time by arguing anymore. Judging the tone of text can be misconstrued very easily. We are done here.

 

[Aliaszero]

and I am still saying you are wrong. All of the cars I listed, have fairly high mileage DCT service intervals, including the Porsche.

well good. That gives me hope then that we don't have issues. I think it'll be just like with the 10 speed in the 18's, which i love mine, but i see posts about issues with it all the time. Hell i bought a bunch of used bolt ons from an 18 owner that had been through 3 transmissions already and wasn't willing to touch another 18 mustang so forgive me for being a bit skeptical. I know i saw a video of a Porsche 911 turbo S doing like 100 full launch control runs without even blinking an eyelash so i hope we get that type of reliability.

Sponsored