2017 Mustang GT ticks

youra6 said:

Unless her name is Tesla, every car's first boyfriend is some dealer.

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Sounds like some women I’ve known

usgiorgi said:

I got the tick after my first oil change. I thought it was the exhaust. I crawled under the car to see what I could find. I then got a JLT intake and an SCT tuner. Found some crazy knock 6+ at WOT and ~2 half throttle. Once again I crawled under to see if I could find any metal to metal contact. The crazy part was that the knock sensor seemed to be in tune with that sound. Even at light throttle knock would go up when I heard that sound.

Brought it to the dealer for this and unrelated paint issues, the tech immediately heard it. Then they call and tell me it's not reproduceable. Anyways, long story short, they went from repainting my trunk to repainting my entire rear end due to the dealer fuckup. Then they had to re-do their work 4 times due to runs and solvent pop. I then traded that nightmare in for a charger scat pack. Dodge has been great so far, but it's still an American company and it worries me, but I can't stop driving V8s now that I've felt their awesomeness.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't ignore this problem. If you have the tick, you need to figure out what the heck is causing it before the engine warranty is up.

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Maybe it's harmful, maybe not. Again however, there's a relatively small number of 5.0's with that issue. There's a zillion F-150's and Mustang GT's with the 5.0 and while they are not 100% identical internally (mustang obviously has forged rods and crank, some other changes to increase flow, different tuning etc. for higher power output), they are very similar overall. The overall valvetrain architecture is the same on both, same displacement, stroke, block etc.

Also can we really assume that the BBQ tick in every 5.0 is always caused by the same issue? I don't think so. In my experience multiple different problems can cause nearly identical symptoms. Some of those issues are catastrophic while others are a nuisance and nothing more. That might explain why some people with the BBQ tick have major issues while others seem to have no other issues than the minor annoyance of hearing it at idle. It may be an entirely different problem such as a spun bearing in one car from using higher viscosity oil than the engine was designed for or a lash adjuster in another car that while noisy works just fine...

If I get the BBQ tick at any point, I'll bring it in and get it documented by the dealership. Then I'll just drive the car and see if it gets any worse or stays the same. I have a warranty to fall back on if there are any serious issues and I'll be patient and leave it stock until the warranty is up or nearly up. At that point I'll either mod it with a Ford Performance PP3 or trade it in if something much faster / better that is out from Ford, GM or Dodge by then.

One thing I learned from my Ecoboost adventure is that NO mod is worth worrying about on a daily driver. If you do something that's making you worry about weather not your damaging your engine for the sake of one or two tenths of a second that doesn't even matter (because it's not an actual dedicated race car), then what's the point? If your competing and you don't depend on the car every day, that's a different story but 90% of us don't actually compete other than for fun. Worrying about blowing up your engine is NOT fun.

Regarding your charger, your at no less risk than you were with the Mustang or with a Camaro for example. The overall quality of Dodge / Chrysler vehicles is ranked below where Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota, Kia and sever other popular brands are presently.

Here's another great example, Toyoda, one of the most reliable common brands out there with their very expensive Tundra: http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/131699-tundra-engine-knock/

Toyoda statistically has fewer issues than Ford, GM, Dodge and many other brands but we can find forums where several people have issues including sounds that concern them or are very annoying. In come cases it's an indication of a problem, other times it's not.

Here's just one example of illustrate my point about going to Brand B because you had issues with Brand A: http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330353

Here's another example of a design quirk in the 2016~2017 Alpha platform Camaro SS: https://www.torquenews.com/3768/why-2016-2017-chevrolet-camaro-owners-are-furious-over-rattle-sound

The majority of "Oh crap" moments seem to come from those who mod their car immediately after they purchase it. There's no time to break in the engine or test for infant mortality issues. There tons of Ecoboost owners who found that out the hard way after modding. They pushed the limits on a new and relatively untested engine and many of them failed.

Here's one last example just to make my point and really drive it home: http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=446706

Just for reference the Mustang won the best overall quality for sports cars in 2016. The Camaro SS won it for 2017....you might get a good one, an ok one or a lemon. That's what warranties and lemon laws are for.

I also did a little digging and found several people who ended up with a tick that was very similar to the "BBQ" tick who tuned their 5.0's and were also running a different oil viscosity.

Running a heavier viscosity is asking for a spun bearing and it makes no sense on a stock bottom end. Aftermarket is another story as the clearances may be set up for a higher viscosity oil, but the stock bottom end clearances are designed for 5W-20. That's a great way to slowly kill a rod bearing especially during cold starts! http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/engine-bearing-technology-spin-spun-bearings/

We all know the risks of tuning. One 5.0 I found trashed two of his pistons and spun a bearing....it was an aggressive Lund 93 tune and he was also running 5W-30 on a stock bottom end....:doh:. He described the issues as the "BBQ" tick...

I think what we have are a few manufacturing defects from Ford mixed in with failures from people doing stupid things to their engines...nothing new there.

If Ford acknowledged an issue with the Focus RS head gaskets once they started seeing abnormally high percentages of failures (and over a far shorter time period than the 5.0, which has been in production in it's various iterations for over 8 years now), why would they try to deny issues with the 5.0? I'm going to bet that the number of failures doesn't constitute enough to be considered a design defect and is a fraction of a percentage of all 5.0's manufactured by Ford since around 2011.

Makes no sense to me. I think the reality is that a few engines, like with any engine series, have suffered infant mortality and the forums are where those people congregate and then scream bloody murder all 5.0's suck all mustangs suck all fords suck everything america sucks everything the TheLion says sucks bla bla bla. Nothing new under the sun.

Maybe we should start a "blown motor" list like the Ecoboost guys did. Looking over at their list, only 1 car failed a stock engine. All the rest were tuned. It would be interesting to see whose engines failed and what mods they had if any, also if they were covered by warranty.

There's what, only 3 on this thread who actually had their engines fail? All three of them were bottom end issues. You don't go 55k miles on a spun bearing so obviously the "BBQ" tick that some people have is not related to a spun bearing knock (which some people describe as a tick), but may sound somewhat similar depending on your computer speakers and hearing. From the videos I'd say the "tick" sounds more like a sharp knock and is erratic and increases intensity with RPM which is a red flag right there. It's not your typical lash adjuster tick.

Running 5W-30 in a 5.0 with the "BBQ" tick is a good way to turn that harmless noise into a spun bearing in a few thousand miles! Then you do have something to worry about lol.

Quick update. Ticking is back.

I wonder if the Voodoo has these issues

MasterCylinder said:

Quick update. Ticking is back.

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My GT PP has had a mild tick since I bought it. But after 3rd oil change it is louder with PUP 5W-20 than it was with MC 5W-20 semi-synthetic blend. First oil change was at 5,500 miles when the car was traded in before I got it, dealer just used MC semi-syn oil and filter like it came with from the factory. Second oil change I just did last night was at 10k with Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 and the factory MC FL-500S filter I got at auto zone. PUP 5W-20 meets the Ford WSS-M2C945-A specification for motor oil. So there should not be any issues running that. That is actually what the Magnuson-Moss law is for, if the part is an alternate OE replacement, they cannot blame the part for another failure pending installation / usage was appropriate. Not for modifying your car with power adders, PCM flashes etc.

I honestly don't think the ticking I hear is abnormal, even though it's noticeably more pronounced with the PUP 5W-20 than it was with the MC 5W-20. It's easily drowned out once you get up to 2k~2.5k rpm by other engine noise and the exhaust and that's at an idle, sitting next to another car, with the window down, radio off and air vent off. Roll up the window, turn on the radio or turn on the air vent and you can no longer distinguish it. To really hear it you need the "drive thru" as they say.

My EB was noisy as heck, it had all sorts of pronounced ticks etc. and it did NOT have any known issues when I traded it in at 36k. Only issue I had was a bad belt tension-er that was slipping the serpentine, causing the car to run a bit hot, which was replaced under warranty as I had the FP tune. I swore up and down every other day that engine was on the verge of failing. Nope, it just kept clanking away. The 5.0 is certainly much smoother in every way and seems to be a little less clanky, but it has it's ticks and tocks as well, like any other engine.

An erratic knock, like in some of the videos posted seems to be more of an indication of an actual issue. A spun rod bearing will make a deep knock sound depending on how far along the bearing failure is, it may be erratic or it may be very pronounced, but I'd imagine you would know pretty quickly if it's a major problem because it's not gonna last, none of the engines with a spun rod bearing or cylinder failure have made it very far, so if that's your source, it will not be a slow death, but rather quick and brutal. That's the great thing about the warranty though, if you have a problem, your covered. That's what warranties are for! And also why I would highly recommend not doing any engine related mods (save for a cat back, which has no effect on engine operation, only sound, weight and looks), until at least 36k miles to make sure the engine is mechanically sound. That's the same recommendation I made for the Ecoboost and the GT is no different. Standard bumper to bumper is 36k, then power train (stilll covers major engine / drive train components etc.) is 60k, then there are various extended warranties like mine, which has a 100k power train and hence why I will wait this time even for the FP tune until the warranty is fully up and the car is paid off, just in case.

Time will tell if my ticking is anything abnormal, but I'm going to just run the car and enjoy it as is instead of worrying about weather a mod I've done has damaged the engine and I'm on the hook for the repair/replacement (since I haven't modified the engine). Isn't 435 HP enough to at least have some fun...?

Case in point, this tick is erratic, it's not rhythmic, it's very harsh and abnormal sounding (also note this falls into the "infant" mortality case, at only 2,500 miles on it as I've pointed out for the majority of catastrophic failures, Ecoboost or Coyote alike), even so, this particular engine never actually failed during use, so we really don't know if there was anything actually wrong it it, they even did a tear down and didn't find anything, but the OP's engine was replaced again, under warranty:



and

Here is one with known Rod & Cylinder damage (also has a CEL and is throwing codes, and it was replaced under warranty, failure by only 3,800 miles):

Now here is a "normal" tick and about what mine sounds like (although mine is more pronounced after the PUP oil change):

There's a pretty distinct difference in those sounds. The last one is rhythmic and in sync with engine RPM, does not increase in harshness but fades out with engine RPM, the others are generally erratic and intermittent, very abnormal sounding.

Mine does make that puffing sound occasionally at idle when warm as well, I noticed that two days after I dove home, but that sounds more like air passage, possibly through the PCV system or possibly cam timing affecting the intake valves, I don't believe it's abnormal either. I'm already at 10k miles, doesn't burn oil, power is great, no CEL, fuel mileage is what you'd expect etc.. Just ticks at idle / low RPM when your near a sound barrier. We'll see if the ticking dies down after the next 1~2k miles on PUP 5W-20. Not sure I care enough about it though to go back to an oil with inferior properties for the sake of a sound I can't generally hear but in a very few cases....

Again most of these major failures are at very low mileage and become very severe very quickly. These are manufacturing defects. Not harmless design quirks that may be "annoying" but common occurrences among this series of engines. If anyone can show me an actual published Ford TSB or some literature showing 5W-30 is an "approved" alternative oil viscosity, I'd like to see it because the service manual only allows for 5W-20. Engine tolerances are typically designed for a specific viscosity as is the oil pump.

Higher viscosity oils typically require higher pump pressure = greater losses in both power and fuel economy. Also tighter tolerances require thinner viscosity oils to maintain proper flow rates without requiring massive oil pump pressures. I'd imagine running too high a viscosity oil could potentially cause flow rate issues and increase wear rates unless your running a built bottom end with looser tolerances design for higher viscosity oils or if let your car idle until it's up to operating temp then drive it only on a track (obviously viscosity decreases with temp rise, so running a thicker oil under severe temperatures may result in a viscosity that is similar to 5W-20 under more normal driving conditions a street car sees). Maybe 5W-30 isn't thick enough o cause issues longer term, maybe it is.

But 5W-30 will only mask, to a small degree, knocking caused by a spun rod bearing, not gonna last long that way. So pending you don't have a spun rod bearing, what's the point? Ever listen to an engine on a dedicated track car? Those are some pretty clanky engines (pending you can actually hear them over the exhaust, which often you can't). I think when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, problem is not every tick is a nail to be hammered down. Most of them in fact are not.

If the quoted failure rate of the coyote 5.0L is in fact less than 0.5%, there are what, 200k~250k mustangs with coyotes in them, that's 1,000~1,250 engines with problems out of 200,000~250,000. Still pretty small statistic overall and where do you think all of those are going to congregate? Right here on the forums! Yup, another long winded and excessively long post from yours truly, enjoy!

With you going back and forth on your explanations, while in depth it, does cause a little confusion to myself. I have trouble telling whether you are trying to defend/deny the fact the ticking is a thing or if you are trying to say you have the same issue.

First few posts seemed like the former and the last post seemed like the later...

MasterCylinder said:

With you going back and forth on your explanations, while in depth it, does cause a little confusion to myself. I have trouble telling whether you are trying to defend/deny the fact the ticking is a thing or if you are trying to say you have the same issue.

First few posts seemed like the former and the last post seemed like the later...

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I'm wondering the same thing. He goes on other car forums to point out that they have ticks as well. The charger one was a messed up manifold, but Hemis tick in general, just how they are. It's not anywhere like what the tick is discussed in this thread though. My Mustang sounded like I was throwing pebbles in a tin can. Just like the video in rod and cylinder damage video. It did go away above 2k rpm but not a great sound.

I feel like he's trying to reassure himself that it's not a problem. A healthy engine shouldn't have the bbq tick type of a sound. Something is clearly not right. If it was just how the engine is made, it'd have that tick directly from the factory.

Here is one with known Rod & Cylinder damage (also has a CEL and is throwing codes, and it was replaced under warranty, failure by only 3,800 miles):

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Just for the sake of accuracy that's the parking brake light you see in the video not a CEL. I didn't throw any codes or recieve a CEL at any point prior to the damage being found and having the engine replaced.

The tick shows up after oil changes and will go away. Most people it has happened to shows up after 10k miles and clears up after a few hundred to 1k miles. Mine did and totally forgot about it as i ran Amsoil so put 10k on the oil. It came back just after the change. It will clear up soon like before. Absolutely no I’ll effects on the power and way it driveS.

TheLion said:

I also did a little digging and found several people who ended up with a tick that was very similar to the "BBQ" tick who tuned their 5.0's and were also running a different oil viscosity.

Running a heavier viscosity is asking for a spun bearing and it makes no sense on a stock bottom end. Aftermarket is another story as the clearances may be set up for a higher viscosity oil, but the stock bottom end clearances are designed for 5W-20. That's a great way to slowly kill a rod bearing especially during cold starts! http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/03/engine-bearing-technology-spin-spun-bearings/

We all know the risks of tuning. One 5.0 I found trashed two of his pistons and spun a bearing....it was an aggressive Lund 93 tune and he was also running 5W-30 on a stock bottom end....:doh:. He described the issues as the "BBQ" tick...

I think what we have are a few manufacturing defects from Ford mixed in with failures from people doing stupid things to their engines...nothing new there.

If Ford acknowledged an issue with the Focus RS head gaskets once they started seeing abnormally high percentages of failures (and over a far shorter time period than the 5.0, which has been in production in it's various iterations for over 8 years now), why would they try to deny issues with the 5.0? I'm going to bet that the number of failures doesn't constitute enough to be considered a design defect and is a fraction of a percentage of all 5.0's manufactured by Ford since around 2011.

Makes no sense to me. I think the reality is that a few engines, like with any engine series, have suffered infant mortality and the forums are where those people congregate and then scream bloody murder all 5.0's suck all mustangs suck all fords suck everything america sucks everything the TheLion says sucks bla bla bla. Nothing new under the sun.

Maybe we should start a "blown motor" list like the Ecoboost guys did. Looking over at their list, only 1 car failed a stock engine. All the rest were tuned. It would be interesting to see whose engines failed and what mods they had if any, also if they were covered by warranty.

There's what, only 3 on this thread who actually had their engines fail? All three of them were bottom end issues. You don't go 55k miles on a spun bearing so obviously the "BBQ" tick that some people have is not related to a spun bearing knock (which some people describe as a tick), but may sound somewhat similar depending on your computer speakers and hearing. From the videos I'd say the "tick" sounds more like a sharp knock and is erratic and increases intensity with RPM which is a red flag right there. It's not your typical lash adjuster tick.

Running 5W-30 in a 5.0 with the "BBQ" tick is a good way to turn that harmless noise into a spun bearing in a few thousand miles! Then you do have something to worry about lol.

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Sorry but running 5w30 is not gonna cause your engine to go!

highvoltage said:

The tick shows up after oil changes and will go away. Most people it has happened to shows up after 10k miles and clears up after a few hundred to 1k miles. Mine did and totally forgot about it as i ran Amsoil so put 10k on the oil. It came back just after the change. It will clear up soon like before. Absolutely no I’ll effects on the power and way it driveS.

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I haven't seen anyone say that their tick went away. Mine came after the first oil change and stayed for 9k miles until I traded the car in.

usgiorgi said:

I haven't seen anyone say that their tick went away. Mine came after the first oil change and stayed for 9k miles until I traded the car in.

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It has happened with every oil change I've done (I'm at 46k). Always goes away after about 1k on the change. MC semi-synth

ryant601 said:

It has happened with every oil change I've done (I'm at 46k). Always goes away after about 1k on the change. MC semi-synth

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So it's something related to lubrication (or lack thereof). That seems normal to you guys?

There is a much longerthread on this subject already. Maybe read up on things in there to give some better insight. Tbis thread is 5 pages long and doesn’t have much to offer or experience with the issue like that one does. I can look for it later but just a heads up on that.