GT350 Supercharge or not?

[stanglife]

Voodoo won't make it to the GT unless two things happen:

Better emissions and better economy. Even if they drop the displacement to 5.0L and add DI it's still not going to help Ford achieve a higher CAFE rating.

My money is on he 2.7-3.5L ecoboost technology finding its way to a mid-compression 4.2L v8, crossplane, with DI and reaching an easy 32mpg on the highway.

+ DCT ;) I mean, why not for a GT500? GT350 is a drivers track car - make the 500 an M6 killer.

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[derpington]

Voodoo won't make it to the GT unless two things happen:

Better emissions and better economy. Even if they drop the displacement to 5.0L and add DI it's still not going to help Ford achieve a higher CAFE rating.

My money is on he 2.7-3.5L ecoboost technology finding its way to a mid-compression 4.2L v8, crossplane, with DI and reaching an easy 32mpg on the highway.

So you think a 4.2L V8 is going to get equivalent gas mileage to the 2.3L I4 Ecoboost in the Mustang?

 

[Mustang1260]

i wonder if anybody actually knows that in its second year 66 they offered the gt350 supercharged as a package from the factory.

NO THEY DIDN'T. Shelby built 1 prototype a GT350S and then dropped the idea as a factory option. Some were sold and installed as a DEALER installed option. The blower was by Paxton.

 

[Hack]

So you think a 4.2L V8 is going to get equivalent gas mileage to the 2.3L I4 Ecoboost in the Mustang?

It might get close in highway cruise, but almost nobody would actually get the rated fuel economy. If there were a 4.2 liter TT V8 Mustang, it would make lots of power and suck lots of fuel when you dip into the throttle.

 

[DrumReaper]

So you think a 4.2L V8 is going to get equivalent gas mileage to the 2.3L I4 Ecoboost in the Mustang?

Yes, yes I do... The above engine with turbocharging, DI and the 10-speed auto would do wonders for efficiency. DI + variable timing and turbocharging is the future. You will see easy gains with this combo. Anyways, not all 8 cylinders have to be running at cruise speeds to achieve optimal efficiency.

 

[derpington]

Yes, yes I do... The above engine with turbocharging, DI and the 10-speed auto would do wonders for efficiency. DI + variable timing and turbocharging is the future. You will see easy gains with this combo. Anyways, not all 8 cylinders have to be running at cruise speeds to achieve optimal efficiency.

The current 2.3L Ecoboost aleady has DI, variable timing and turbocharging. It seems optimistic to think that a 10 speed auto would allow the same gas mileage with a 200% increase in the number if cylinders and a 182% increase in displacement, not to mention the increased weight of the vehicle itself.

 

[DrumReaper]

The current 2.3L Ecoboost aleady has DI, variable timing and turbocharging. It seems optimistic to think that a 10 speed auto would allow the same gas mileage with a 200% increase in the number if cylinders and a 182% increase in displacement, not to mention the increased weight of the vehicle itself.

The v8 would be only a 100% increase in the number of cylinders. Look at the current Corvette... 29mpg HWY with a 6.2L N/A v8 utilizing cylinder deactivation. And if I remember correctly, the Audi A8 has a 4.0L v8 and Quattro and squeezes out 30mpg HWY.

You were saying?

 

[derpington]

The v8 would be only a 100% increase in the number of cylinders. Look at the current Corvette... 29mpg HWY with a 6.2L N/A v8 utilizing cylinder deactivation. And if I remember correctly, the Audi A8 has a 4.0L v8 and Quattro and squeezes out 30mpg HWY.

You were saying?

I was saying that it is extremely unlikely that a 4.2L V8 will get the same gas mileage as a 2.3L I4 from the same company in the same model of car, and I still haven't seen any convincing argument for this fantasy engine you have dreamed up. What advantage would it have over the 2.3L Ecoboost that would allow it to be more effecient?

 

[nastang87xx]

The v8 would be only a 100% increase in the number of cylinders. Look at the current Corvette... 29mpg HWY with a 6.2L N/A v8 utilizing cylinder deactivation. And if I remember correctly, the Audi A8 has a 4.0L v8 and Quattro and squeezes out 30mpg HWY.

You were saying?

Part of that is because of the Corvette ' s gearing though as well as a 3400 lb weight. Put the engine back into a comparable platform to the Mustang like the Camaro, albeit a tick heavier, with a transmission that offers similar velocity and acceleration performance and you're right back where you started with about 16 MPG combined and dropping into mid to low 20 ' s for highway MPG. In fact the LS3 cars of the last few MY C6 ' s were rated higher than 29MPG on the highway. It also made less power and was 100 lb lighter than the Stingray as well.

 

[DrumReaper]

Part of that is because of the Corvette ' s gearing though as well as a 3400 lb weight. Put the engine back into a comparable platform to the Mustang like the Camaro, albeit a tick heavier, with a transmission that offers similar velocity and acceleration performance and you're right back where you started with about 16 MPG combined and dropping into mid to low 20 ' s for highway MPG. In fact the LS3 cars of the last few MY C6 ' s were rated higher than 29MPG on the highway. It also made less power and was 100 lb lighter than the Stingray as well.

If Audi can make an A8, which weighs more than a Mustang, squeeze 29mpg out of its powertrain then your argument is nix'ed.

There are more factors that go into the Corvette's efficiency than simply what it weighs. I'm sure if has a lower coefficient of drag and less rolling resistance than a Camaro. It probably also has less mullet to carry than a Camaro.

I'm sure cars will soon enjoy a pattern of weight loss due to more lightweight materials being employed into their designs and builds.

It would be "easy" for Ford to squeeze 30+ HWY mpg out of a 4.0-4.2L v8 with Ecoboost tech, DI and the 10-speed auto. If they employed cylinder management at cruise they would save even more.

 

[mattlqx]

It would be "easy" for Ford to squeeze 30+ HWY mpg out of a 4.0-4.2L v8 with Ecoboost tech, DI and the 10-speed auto. If they employed cylinder management at cruise they would save even more.

I asked this question on Quora a few years ago. https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Ford-use-cylinder-deactivation-to-improve-fuel-economy-like-GM

Basically, VVT yields the same result as cylinder deactivation on "modern" (read non-push rod) engines. So it's not something that you'll see happen.

 

[nastang87xx]

If Audi can make an A8, which weighs more than a Mustang, squeeze 29mpg out of its powertrain then your argument is nix'ed.

No arguing. Its just a datapoint. The Corvette also takes advantage of super tall gearing as well as gobs of torque efficiency down low making fuel consumption impressively low amongst other things you eluded to. Can ford make a V8 Mustang get 30 MPG? Sure. Its just is that exactly a priority at this this time for Ford. I'm sure there are plenty of other platforms for Ford to improve efficiency if say CAFE is a factor they're considering or highest man'fer fuel consumption average.

 

[DrumReaper]

No arguing. Its just a datapoint. The Corvette also takes advantage of super tall gearing as well as gobs of torque efficiency down low making fuel consumption impressively low amongst other things you eluded to. Can ford make a V8 Mustang get 30 MPG? Sure. Its just is that exactly a priority at this this time for Ford. I'm sure there are plenty of other platforms for Ford to improve efficiency if say CAFE is a factor they're considering or highest man'fer fuel consumption average.

Have you considered what charging does for torque? I'll take a 3.5EB vs the 5.0 in the F150 for low-end grunt.

As for gearing, the 10-speed auto will allow for efficient mapping to utilize the power curve for optimal efficiency. Expect to see an efficiency mode on that auto.

 

[DrumReaper]

I asked this question on Quora a few years ago. https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Ford-use-cylinder-deactivation-to-improve-fuel-economy-like-GM

Basically, VVT yields the same result as cylinder deactivation on "modern" (read non-push rod) engines. So it's not something that you'll see happen.

Right on.

 

[derpington]

Have you considered what charging does for torque? I'll take a 3.5EB vs the 5.0 in the F150 for low-end grunt.

As for gearing, the 10-speed auto will allow for efficient mapping to utilize the power curve for optimal efficiency. Expect to see an efficiency mode on that auto.

Speaking of the 3.5EB vs the 5.0L in the F150, the 3.5EB gets 23 MPG highway versus the 21 MPG of the 5.0L for a less than 10% increase in an engine that has two less cylinders and 33% less displacement. You're suggesting that this theoretical 4.2L would see 32 MPG versus the current 25 MPG in the Mustang GT for a whopping 25+% increase in gas mileage in an engine that has the same number of cylinders and a ~12.5% decrease in displacement. Is this all a function of the 10 speed?

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