Boss manifold going on

[dubster99]

Let's see his results with proper tuning. You guys say I'm jumping to conclusions saying it's an upgrade, but you're not jumping to conclusions saying it's a waste? lolololololololol

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[Mikeg4572]

Let's see his results with proper tuning. You guys say I'm jumping to conclusions saying it's an upgrade, but you're not jumping to conclusions saying it's a waste? lolololololololol

Well put!

 

[kris5597]

The boss manifold and CJ manifold are upgrades until proven they arent, not the other way around. Numbers to numbers, specs to specs, everything points to the boss and CJ manifold making great power on the 2015, only thing missing are the results of testing and PROPER tubing the VCT for it. You can't swap the manifolds without tuning VCT. The stock VCT is tuned for the volumetric efficiency of the stock manifold, when you change the characteristics of a manifolds design and flow, VCT must change to accommodate the change in volumetric efficiency.

Tuning the VCT is what will truly tell the tale. Think of it this way, what happened to the car in the link I posted when they swapped from boss cams to the CJ cams? The car gained massive power. I can guarantee most of the power gained was from the camshafts, not the manifold. The car already had a boss manifold and moved to the CJ. The 2015 shares the same specs to those cams. Take a step back and quit thinking about the torque loss on the low end. If you lose 20 wtq at 3000 and it flattens the torque curve and it gains 40 wtq at 7500, that's a massive increase in how fast the car is, street, drag strip, or road course. More power equals a faster car.

Btw, the IMRCs have nothing to do with the power on the low end, at WOT, they are fully open, no matter the rpm. It's the manifold design and the BIGGER cams and valves that give the 2015 more power over the 11-14, at all rpm.

 

[kris5597]

Lets get one thing out there that is a guarantee, your going to lose low end power going from the stock manifold to thr CJ or Boss. How much, I don't know, but there will be some torque loss. Where the car makes peak torque now, will shift to a higher rpm. Could go from 4000 to 5000, that means the car could make peak power at 7800 rather than 6800. Where ever peak torque shifts, power will be there after, certainly less torque fall off. As I have stated many times, I've seen this exact senerio before, long runner manifold makes massive low end torque and shit top end power, swap to a larger plenum shorter runner manifold, you lose some torque and you gain massive top end power. It was worth the swap on those engines, it will definitely he worth it on the 2015 coyote. I'm just ready to say I told you so lol.

 

[Walt1120]

The boss manifold and CJ manifold are upgrades until proven they arent, not the other way around. Numbers to numbers, specs to specs, everything points to the boss and CJ manifold making great power on the 2015, only thing missing are the results of testing and PROPER tubing the VCT for it. You can't swap the manifolds without tuning VCT. The stock VCT is tuned for the volumetric efficiency of the stock manifold, when you change the characteristics of a manifolds design and flow, VCT must change to accommodate the change in volumetric efficiency.

Tuning the VCT is what will truly tell the tale. Think of it this way, what happened to the car in the link I posted when they swapped from boss cams to the CJ cams? The car gained massive power. I can guarantee most of the power gained was from the camshafts, not the manifold. The car already had a boss manifold and moved to the CJ. The 2015 shares the same specs to those cams. Take a step back and quit thinking about the torque loss on the low end. If you lose 20 wtq at 3000 and it flattens the torque curve and it gains 40 wtq at 7500, that's a massive increase in how fast the car is, street, drag strip, or road course. More power equals a faster car.

Btw, the IMRCs have nothing to do with the power on the low end, at WOT, they are fully open, no matter the rpm. It's the manifold design and the BIGGER cams and valves that give the 2015 more power over the 11-14, at all rpm.

You sure on that? The CMCV's (charge motion control valves) are rpm based not throttle. They partially close to improve intake runner velocity at lower rpm to improve power and after a certain rpm they gradually become fully open. My understanding is that on the 2015, it is not like the old school ones where they are butterfly valves that have two positions, open or closed. They gradually open with rpm to maintain high intake runner velocity and when they are fully open there is nothing blocking anything inside the runner like the old valves, which mean that top end will be the same with or without them, no gain from a delete plate.

The CMCV's are said to be the main reason for the low and mid gain on the 15 which is what makes sense since they are a major change on the intake design. Bigger cams and bigger heads usually dont help much down low.

They are a good piece of tech in the intake as they are meant to help runner velocity for max power at all rpms.

Obviously there is no dyno proofs of anything so everything we say is speculation but id bet a pretty penny that the majority if not almost all the gains witnessed on the 15 dynos vs 11-14 on the low/mid are because of them, ford said that was the reason for implementing them

My opinion still stand that regardless if its boss or CJ you will lose that 20-25 bump in that range, the curve would drop more to what a 11-14 5.0 would make at that rpm range, once you get up top, the better cams, heads etc will cause the 15 to make more power than a 11-14 could with a boss or CJ. Power doesnt drop off as soon either which you can also see from that dyno. The boss intake on the previous 5.0 dropped after 7500ish, on the 15 you can see it stays flat to what 7800-7900!? My guess is that the stock motor wouldnt safely rev high enough to see the CJ intake power drop off

The boss and CJ are definitely upgrades but the sacrifice on the low end could be avoided all together if the CMCV's remained which would be my goal.

Cant really retrofit them with the boss or CJ since they are plastic, but MMR can do pretty much anything you want with their intakes. Id be interested in the MMR roadrunner 5.0 intake with CMCV installed and have lund or someone program the valves, would be badas*

Youd pretty much have all the top end you could ever need with a CJ or MMR and with the CMCV you could have the intake runner velocity adjusted down low so power loss is minimal or zero over stock 15

The GT350 intake utilizes them for this reason and thats why its torque curve is so flat as they can pretty much vary runner diameter to max out power for the entire rpm range over a cut and dry intake which would have the same top end but not the low end.

Again all I can do is speculate lol but you can see my opinion on CMCV, they are an awesome tool added to the coyote and are tunable

Maybe my understanding is wrong but having the intake valves full open at wot regardless of rpm kind of would eliminate the point and their potential

 

[ero 5.0]

so much technical talk... I wanna see the results! lol! Thanks again btw for actually being the guinea pig on this. I have a feeling many more will follow soon.

 

[347CobraII]

CMCV are flap that folds out of the way not butterfly like the past. After 4000rpm there fully opened

 

[kris5597]

When I get home, I will open my HPTUNER software to see when the IMRCs open and if there is a gradual opening stated by the software. If I remember correctly, they do open at WOT, which is why I previously. However, my memory could be incorrect and I could be wrong. Being on vacation, I am quite some distance from my laptop. :/

 

[kris5597]

Just confirmed, the IMRCs are controlled by mapped points. There are 26 mapped points for the 2015 chassis, 2 out of the 26 are disabled from ford (13 and 26), then there is a 27th mapped point for OP mode, which is also disabled from ford on the 2015. Mapped points 14-25 are the mapped points used for when the vehicle is at WOT, this is for ignition, VCT, and IMRC. Every mapped pointed from 14-25 shows the IMRCs are selected to be open when those tables are activated.

The only tables where I see the IMRCs are closed is during low load driving conditions.

 

[Dustin GI]

Just waiting on the JLT at this point, I expect it very soon.

 

[shadowsong6]

I'd recommend cleaning up the inside of the runners on the Boss, a lot of the 11-14 guys picked up a bit of power there, you can do it yourself with a dremmal, or there are a few guys on s v t p that do it for pretty cheap

 

[dubster99]

You got a link to the process?

 

[Need4Speed15]

You got a link to the process?

Won't let you post a link here, but if you search you will find multiple threads on that site including one I did with a stock intake.

 

[Grimace427]

I'd recommend cleaning up the inside of the runners on the Boss, a lot of the 11-14 guys picked up a bit of power there, you can do it yourself with a dremmal, or there are a few guys on s v t p that do it for pretty cheap

Even just using some emery by hand works pretty well because you aren't trying to increase the runner size but really just knocking down some plastic casting flash around the inner portion of the injector bungs. I did this on my 2011 with Boss intake, will try to post some photos but photobucket is being a pain right now.

 

[Dustin GI]

Thanks Gents for the advice. Grimace, I would like to see the pics, I read on it over on SVT. I think your route may be a bit safer and what is needed.

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