My number came up on the waiting list... but ADM

[Cruzinaround]

Dealerships wouldn't have to go out of business if they simply changed and adapted to the competition. A manufacturer selling direct will always sell at MSRP, not under and not over. So if a dealer can be efficient, they will be able to sell under and therefore always have customers. This is the case for nearly every product in America - when was the last time you paid MSRP on a tv or laptop? Street prices for these are way lower than MSRP because the stores have become efficient enough to sell below and still make a profit.

Now, would those stores LOVE to sell much higher at MSRP or (gasp, even higher) and make more money? Of course. But competition has eliminated that. People quote capitalism, but forget that capitalism is supposed to be better for the consumer, that competition will result in better products, cheaper. And Ford, as a result of competition against GM and Toyota and everyone else, has produced a great product for its price. The dealers, on the other hand, by reducing competition, have increased price.

Correction. At end of model transitions the older inventory is always marked down below the listed prices because the newer model will typically enter at the previous pricepoint.

Even in a direct buy model there are incentives that still apply to lower the price below the MSRP. Students, Military, Government services. And all manufacturers that give a crap about their consumers have customer loyalty awards and even incentives to step a buyer from another brand onto theirs.

The research was already done where the projections from Industry Marketing and Business experts already projected that the average savings per customer going through a direct buy model would be 2.5 k on average. The only counter to this claim came from NADA( which is backed by the franchises) claiming the average would be 1.6k over MSRP.

This is true with any large business. Grocery stores, electronics stores. Grocery stores have razor thin margins. And I've seen these go out of business, millions lost in investment.

But dealerships have something that grocery stores don't - exclusivity on a specific brand. While 3 grocery stores within a mile of each other can all sell the same brands, there is only 1 Ford dealer in a given area. This creates a small, local monopoly on that brand. And that gives a lot of protection to a dealer. Its not easy running a dealership day-to-day, but unless there are colossal f-ups, a dealer isn't going to go out of business either.

And monopolies (which are against the principles of capitalism) fosters douchebaggery. Imagine if there were 3 Ford dealers within a mile of each other. Do you think any one of them could get away with being a scumbag? Or if there was a Ford store with non-commision sales reps who simply took your order at MSRP and 2 weeks later, your car shows up for pick up?

This is the reason why dealerships of the same brand have territorial restrictions written into law to prevent another franchise out of network dealership of the same brand name to build within a 10 mile radius of each other. It is in fact how they perpetuate the effect of a monopoly.

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[krt22]

The 526 HP is SAE certified and will be spot on. There is no such thing as "underrating" when the SAE protocols are followed.

Conservative when it comes to how aggressive the timing/tune is required to achieve that rated 526, not the number itself

 

[drmustang]

...and that's why people who walk into a dealership ought to have a better understanding of how dealerships and auto manufacturers operate! Same stereotype mentioned above. And as consumers, we are taught to expect that if a car dealer makes money on a transaction, that's a bad thing

Really? Exactly why does Joe the car buyer and his wife need to "understand how a car dealer operate"?

 

[Blk2015GT]

Sigh. Its not capitalism. It's not a fair "fight" when you've bribed the referee to change the rules just for you, which is exactly what car dealerships did when they lobbied government to make it illegal for manufacturers to sell direct to consumers. What's hilarious is that it wasn't even their own dealer, but rather a new one, Tesla. How does Tesla selling direct affect a Ford/GM/Toyota/Honda dealer?

It doesn't, other than set the precedence for Ford/GM/Toyota/Honda to follow suit and do the same. THAT is what the dealers were afraid of, that they would no longer be able to price gouge and charge above MSRP on the foolish or the impulsive. They were afraid of competition, so they made their competition illegal. You can buy just about anything direct from the manufacturer, other than cars. Capitalism my ass.

You assume that if manufacturers sold direct the prices would remain the same as they are now. Who is going to sell the cars? They need to hire and pay people, and porters, mechanics, physical locations to sell. Overheard=higher prices. Telsa is doing is on a MUCH smaller scale than the big 3-5 automakers if they did they same; a small fraction of the size of the operation. In 2014 the highest selling month ever for Tesla was 2,500 cars in October, but were averaging 1600/month. Ford sells 10 times times that many Mustangs alone per month as a regular month for Tesla, let alone all other models they sell. That is the scale difference.

ADM isn't gouging. If you want a house at 123 Main Street and want to offer asking of $250,000 and not a penny more (which equates to MSRP) what is stopping me if I REALLY want that house from offering $300,000? Nothing. Same situation here. Although it's not 1 specific car like the 1 specific house, it's 5,000 for the year; which is still a small number when you consider Ford sells 2 times that many regular Mustangs per month right now. If someone wants to pay $10-20-30k over MSRP good for them. This is a luxury item, no one is asking you to pay $20 for a gallon of milk to feed your children. A GT350 in perspective isn't a necessity by any stretch of the word.

This isnt about gouging this about the "not fair" game because people are willing to pay more to get a slot than others here. I guess we should take Ebay offline too because no one should ever pay a penny more than what something is worth and let's take away their choice

 

[Poppacapp]

ADM isn't gouging. If you want a house at 123 Main Street and want to offer asking of $250,000 and not a penny more (which equates to MSRP) what is stopping me if I REALLY want that house from offering $300,000? Nothing. Same situation here. Although it's not 1 specific car like the 1 specific house, it's 5,000 for the year; which is still a small number when you consider Ford sells 2 times that many regular Mustangs per month right now. If someone wants to pay $10-20-30k over MSRP good for them. This is a luxury item, no one is asking you to pay $20 for a gallon of milk to feed your children. A GT350 in perspective isn't a necessity by any stretch of the word.

This isnt about gouging this about the "not fair" game because people are willing to pay more to get a slot than others here. I guess we should take Ebay offline too because no one should ever pay a penny more than what something is worth and let's take away their choice

You just don't seem to get it. But I can understand that because you are in the business. It is the principle of the "gouge". saying "Well, if they are willing to pay that much, we will sure take it!", instead of saying, "We have values and want to treat our customers as we would want to be treated. So let's not be greedy and sell at the fair MSRP price."

The second quote is how you maintain a loyal customer base. Again, if I come across a dealer charging rediculous ADM, they will never get my business, nor any of my friends, family, acquaintances etc etc etc. They lose more in the long run than that SINGLE sale.

Good luck on perpetuating the stereotype that hounds dealerships.

 

[grayforge]

Agreed. One can charge exorbitant prices for bottled water and lumber in areas with an impending hurricane. "We're only selling at prices customers are willing to pay."

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

These threads fit the definition of insanity which makes it so much fun!

Just an observation or two for those in defense of ADM. 1) Ford clearly priced this car in an effort to make it affordable for what you get. So why is it ok for a FORD DEALER to make it unaffordable to the same demographic? 2) You just bought a new car. Guy walks in right after you, buys exact same car and pays $5K less. Are you pissed?

Got nothing against a dealer making a good living. Hope they all do. If he needs the $5-20k ADM on a specialty vehicle to keep open he's not a very good businessman. If he doesn't need it to keep open, might be taking advantage. Just sayin'.

 

[mustang_lurkers]

Dealers can charge ADMs all they want but the power is in the purchaser's hands. It is their money and they decide if they want to spend it or not. Regardless of my income I would never pay the ADM. Paying an ADM is literally throwing money away. It doesn't matter if you are rich if you constantly throw your money away you will end up broke so it best to be wise with your money. I knew that if I planned well, acted early and was patient I could get a 2016 GT350 at MSRP. I have one on order now at MSRP. The 2015s and all of the GT350Rs are much more limited so it would be much more difficult to avoid the ADM on them. Dealers love to justify ADMs because of the limited numbers but that money is never recouped if you try to trade said vehicle in. I have a 2005 Saleen S-281SC and remember that dealers were asking for 10K ADMs on first batch GTs that year. What do you think they would say when I ask for anything over the book on the trade in value of the car. The car is still just as limited and even more so when you consider those that were wrecked or junked over the years. Where is the ADM when a car is traded in?

 

[Hack]

The dealer isn't the bad guy. He has 10 or more people in line to buy a car, so he'd rather sell to the one who will pay the most for the car. Perfect world for the dealer would be an auction. So he sets the number high and tries to get someone to bite. People who call around and talk to many dealers really drive this attitude and make the dealers feel as though they have more demand for the car than really exists.

More power to him. The people who own dealerships are winners. People who get the cars (on their terms) are winners. Some other people whine and complain and then never buy the car. I'm not going to say they are losers. They just have different priorities.

Yeah it isn't fair that some people have more money than others. But it is the height of fairness when someone works their butt off and ends up with a lot of money and then they spend it how they want to. I feel lucky to be in a position to potentially afford a GT350. I still don't know if I'm going to get one. I'd like the dealer to pick me over everyone else, but in honesty I can't see why he would. I've bought 4 cars from him in the last 4 years, so I think that helps, but he probably has people who buy more than that. I won't pay too much in ADM just because I'm not comfortable with the final price being that high. I'm not opposed to ADM in theory, though. I will be interested to find out whether the dealer will negotiate with me and/or keep the ADM low due to our past relationship.

It's funny to me how some people have never bought a Ford, haven't bought one for a number of years or never worked with a dealer at all in the past, but they still think they should get special treatment. Entitled much?

 

[TheRican]

Adm's are stupid and unnecessary. Dealers don't sell cars at an aggregate loss, so the whole "gotta eat" defense is moot.

 

[Hack]

Adm's are stupid and unnecessary. Dealers don't sell cars at an aggregate loss, so the whole "gotta eat" defense is moot.

If you had an opportunity to put an extra 5 or 10 grand in your pocket, you would take it.

Don't even try to say you wouldn't.

It's just like people going to a new job to get a pay raise. There's no reason you have to be loyal to your past company. There's nothing unfair about you leaving and getting more money somewhere else. Companies are bidding against each other for your work. If you're good, you have your pick of companies. It's a good thing.

 

[drmustang]

Forking over a 5 or 10 thousand dollar premium for a item that will sharply depreciate in value is a degree of stupidity that the majority of cannot even comprehend.

Please don't think that the guys who can afford to do so are the first suckers to jump. I know and work with people who could afford a parking lot full of GT350s and can tell you that none of them would consider a purchase in excess of what the manufacturer prints on the price tag. These people are quite shrewd and know what they can get for their money. I can remember when guys were rearended with these ridiculous ADMs on the 2007 GT500s. You are literally throwing that money out in the street for someone else to enjoy.

 

[Blk2015GT]

You just don't seem to get it. But I can understand that because you are in the business. It is the principle of the "gouge". saying "Well, if they are willing to pay that much, we will sure take it!", instead of saying, "We have values and want to treat our customers as we would want to be treated. So let's not be greedy and sell at the fair MSRP price."

The second quote is how you maintain a loyal customer base. Again, if I come across a dealer charging rediculous ADM, they will never get my business, nor any of my friends, family, acquaintances etc etc etc. They lose more in the long run than that SINGLE sale.

Good luck on perpetuating the stereotype that hounds dealerships.

Strike one. Lawyer and nothing to do with the auto industry nor anyone in my family.

Strike two. People pay what someone will take EVERY DAY. Again as an example, a house purchase price or apartment rent is only worth what someone will pay for it. There are bidding wars every minute and house auctions where people pay over asking as well.

If a seller is asking $50k over market value on a house and you don't want to pay it you move on. If I want to pay the inflated price the seller is the bad guy? Puhlease. If you wanted to sell your house right now and could get someone to pay $50k over market value you'd be clicking your heels all the way to the bank. Don't pretend to be a self-righteous do-gooder that you would say "I'm sorry buyer but I cannot accept the $50k extra in good conscious, just what the appraisal value is."

99% of the ADM whiners here would never do that, yet want to whine and be butthurt when the dealer as the seller is doing it. It's called a free market, you can ask whatever you want as a seller for an item if people will pay it. No one owes it to you to sell an item (especially limited number made item) for what it is worth.

Strike three. Mere opinion. It is nothing more than an assumption that there is customer loyalty to a dealership because you got x price; good or bad. I don't feel some pressing need to go back to the same dealership because I got X plan on my GT. There are MANY more aspects than just price; and frankly I may not go back because the order experience was not good- they didn't get me an order number for weeks, didn't know how to track the car, didn't know you could add 68b premier trim- basically just poorly trained not done intentionally.

I have zero loyalty to them because of a good price. But frankly, they dont care what you or I think, you are merely one of the 5-6 digits of customers just in your area and there are only so many car brands. Whether I like them or not their lot is filled daily with customers so don't hold this false belief you or anyone here (because of the GT350) are snubbing them. People move into the community constantly and become new customers of theirs, so you pretending to snub them means very little in the scheme of things.

Mustanglurkers and Hack seem to get it. We're in a free economy, pay to play.

 

[10splaya22]

Forking over a 5 or 10 thousand dollar premium for a item that will sharply depreciate in value is a degree of stupidity that the majority of cannot even comprehend.

Please don't think that the guys who can afford to do so are the first suckers to jump. I know and work with people who could afford a parking lot full of GT350s and can tell you that none of them would consider a purchase in excess of what the manufacturer prints on the price tag. These people are quite shrewd and know what they can get for their money. I can remember when guys were rearended with these ridiculous ADMs on the 2007 GT500s. You are literally throwing that money out in the street for someone else to enjoy.

You are correct and I agree, but that doesn't mean its wrong if someone is paying more because they want it first. People do that all the time. Demand is high in the beginning and the supply is low. This means average price goes up. Once the demand dies down and there is adequate supply the average selling price drops. Its a very simple concept.

 

[Poppacapp]

The dealer isn't the bad guy. He has 10 or more people in line to buy a car, so he'd rather sell to the one who will pay the most for the car. Perfect world for the dealer would be an auction. So he sets the number high and tries to get someone to bite. People who call around and talk to many dealers really drive this attitude and make the dealers feel as though they have more demand for the car than really exists.

^^^ This statement you made above ALONE, is EXACTLY what makes the dealer the bad guy. Pure greed. :doh:

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